Allen-Bradley using JIS screw on 525 conduit boxes

[mrborohachi]

I was going to ask if Allen-Bradley uses a JIS cross head screw on their Enclosure Conversions, but I found a picture of an older model enclosure that clearly shows a dot on the screw head. The screws I run into on the current "IP 30/NEMA 1/UL Type 1 – Frame A" do not have a dot.

https://internationalpartssupplyinc...type-1-enclosure-conversion-kit-34661524-xxtl

Amazon has this 30 piece VESSEL made in Japan bit set that I'm buying for work ($32.57). Nice to finally see a T-27 included in a set (needed for Harleys).
VESSEL IMPACT BALL™ Torsion Bit 30+1 PC. Set in SLIDE CASE No.IB31P02U Made in Japan by VESSEL

 

[dnschmidt]

The fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason NOT to use a JIS (or the modern DIN replacement of the JIS) on any Phillips head screw as they fit both perfectly. All of my Phillips screwdrivers are JIS compatible. Only American made screwdriver, especially the older Craftsman, don't adhere to the new DIN standard that superseded JIS.

 

[Sumboodie]

Had no idea there was a difference.

 

[BrandonV]

The dot is not called out in any of the JIS standards for cross head screws. In fact it was originally put on as an indication that the thread pitch of the fastener was ISO not JIS back in the late 1960s.

I feel like this topic has been beaten like a dead horse. For 40+ years JIS screwdrivers have been roughly compatible with DIN/ISO screwdrivers for cross head fasteners.

As long as you're using a modern quality European or Asian screwdriver you'll be fine. Don't use a 50 year old Stanley.

 

[dnschmidt]

I sold JIS compatible screwdrivers when I sold TOPTUL and all of the motorcycle guys felt like building a statue to me since they were no longer stripping out the screws on their bikes, particularly carburetors, using the old Craftsman Phillips they had inherited from their dads.

 

[lotus_esprit]

The dot is not called out in any of the JIS standards for cross head screws. In fact it was originally put on as an indication that the thread pitch of the fastener was ISO not JIS back in the late 1960s.

I feel like this topic has been beaten like a dead horse. For 40+ years JIS screwdrivers have been roughly compatible with DIN/ISO screwdrivers for cross head fasteners.

As long as you're using a modern quality European or Asian screwdriver you'll be fine. Don't use a 50 year old Stanley.

Just today I removed the semi-seized screws from the flywheel cover of a 2004 Yamaha outboard motor, initially I tried a brand new Snap on Instinct Soft grip no3 cross head screwdriver, purchased last week, however it was a poor fit in the screw head; swapped to a Vessel no3 Impacta, fitted perfectly and did not try to cam out or slip under load. The Snap on is visibly a poor fit in the Yamaha screws.

 

[The Cobbler]

as far as Craftsman Phillips, not to derail this thread, but I never found them a very good fit on a phillips , even when new they would easily cam out. and that's from tools in the mid 70's

 

[Sumboodie]

So there's Phillips Phillips and Phillips JIS?
There flat JIS too?

 

[BrandonV]

Just today I removed the semi-seized screws from the flywheel cover of a 2004 Yamaha outboard motor, initially I tried a brand new Snap on Instinct Soft grip no3 cross head screwdriver, purchased last week, however it was a poor fit in the screw head; swapped to a Vessel no3 Impacta, fitted perfectly and did not try to cam out or slip under load. The Snap on is visibly a poor fit in the Yamaha screws.

I have no clue what Snap-on makes their tips too. They could be an older profile considering it is an American brand.

Anything marked PH on the screwdriver itself is usually an indication its a DIN/ISO screwdriver per the marking being required per the standard and should fit a JIS screw well.

Foreign screwdrivers are almost 100% going to be DIN/ISO. Look at Amazon Japan. The top sellers are not Vessels they're German, Chinese, and Taiwanese brands.

 

[BrandonV]

So there's Phillips Phillips and Phillips JIS?
There flat JIS too?

Most things we call Phillips screws are referred to as "cross recessed head screws" in the standards world. As with most things, their dimensions can vary from one standard to another.

It's important to note that the standards provide a range of values that qualify as compliant. This means you could have a screwdriver at the edge of one standard and a screw at the edge of another standard, resulting in an overall very sloppy fit.

 

[KnurledNut]

I have no clue what Snap-on makes their tips too. They could be an older profile considering it is an American brand.

Anything marked PH on the screwdriver itself is usually an indication its a DIN/ISO screwdriver per the marking being required per the standard and should fit a JIS screw well.

Foreign screwdrivers are almost 100% going to be DIN/ISO. Look at Amazon Japan. The top sellers are not Vessels they're German, Chinese, and Taiwanese brands.

Snap-on is a licensee of the genuine Phillips Screw Company standards, a private company with their own specifications for drivers and fasteners that are designed to match.
Phillips is typically used as a generic term since it's so common, but it has been a licensed technology for decades.

Thus the registered trademark symbol.


The same goes for Pozidriv, its also a PSC technology.

 

[BrandonV]

Snap-on is a licensee of the genuine Phillips Screw Company standards, a private company with their own specifications for drivers and fasteners that are designed to match.
Phillips is typically used as a generic term since it's so common, but it has been a licensed technology for decades.

Thus the registered trademark symbol.


The same goes for Pozidriv, its also a PSC technology.

Not sure how that works with the original Phillips drive anymore. I haven't seen the old style Phillips advertised as a licensable technology for a long time.

Drive Systems - The Phillips Screw Company

Phillips Drive System Innovation in Fastener Technology Search Select Industries Aerospace / Defense DIY / Construction Electronics Industrial / Automotive Uncategorized All Select Features Driver Compatibility Ease of Disassembly Maximizing Torque Non-Magnetic Fastener-to-Bit Stick Off-angle...

www.phillips-screw.com

Their use of the registered trademark logo is really just following the USPTOs recommendation of clarifying that they/Snap-on doesn't claim exclusive rights to the term "Phillips".

 

[KnurledNut]

Not sure how that works with the original Phillips drive anymore. I haven't seen the old style Phillips advertised as a licensable technology for a long time.

Drive Systems - The Phillips Screw Company

Phillips Drive System Innovation in Fastener Technology Search Select Industries Aerospace / Defense DIY / Construction Electronics Industrial / Automotive Uncategorized All Select Features Driver Compatibility Ease of Disassembly Maximizing Torque Non-Magnetic Fastener-to-Bit Stick Off-angle...

www.phillips-screw.com

Whats not to understand?
You want genuine Phillips, you pay for the rights.

 

[BrandonV]

Whats not to understand?
You want genuine Phillips, you pay for the rights.

Milwaukee uses the term Phillips without any registered trademark (which is seperate from any licensing) what so ever on the packaging. Nobody is licensing classic Phillips anymore.

 

[ajchien]

The fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason NOT to use a JIS (or the modern DIN replacement of the JIS) on any Phillips head screw as they fit both perfectly. All of my Phillips screwdrivers are JIS compatible. Only American made screwdriver, especially the older Craftsman, don't adhere to the new DIN standard that superseded JIS.

FWIW, A few years ago I realized that my craftsman screwdrivers are a mix of Pratt reed and western forge. Turns out that my PR drivers work with JIS while the WF do not.