Allen wrenches that aren't garbage?

[American Locomotive]

The sleeves on the color coded Wera Hex plus will fall off or interfere. If you want Hex Plus without overspending on a fancy sleeve which does nothing (but you pay more for) then get the Blacklaser equivalent of the Metric/SAE versions.

We used the color-coded Hex Plus wrenches every day for over a year at my last job. Beat on them hard, with them constantly getting soaked in cutting oil. I've only seen the sleeve come off a single wrench, and that's after we had a cheater on it and physically damaged the sleeve.

The color-coded ones aren't just the standard ones with a sleeve either. They have a round body instead of a head body. They are MUCH more rigid than standard hex-body hex wrenches. We had both the color-coded ones and the standard "blacklaser" ones. We routinely bent the standard ones when using cheaters, but never managed to bend the color-coded ones.

 

[kb1982]

I like the bondhus briteguard allen wrenches personally. When you drop one, you can actually find it. I have a set of hf ones in my work toolbag also. Havent had any problems with them, but if I drop one in the belly of an injection molding machine while changing out the end of arm tool on robots, they are impossible to find.

Sent from my LML713DL using Tapatalk

 

[American Locomotive]

It's not just my word but others word on this. The sleeves will come off

Okay so in his video (which you tried to use as proof to support your argument), he literally burned the sleeve, exposed to to harsh chemicals, and even resorted to literally peeling chunks of it off with a pair of pliers - and it STILL held strong.

Like I said, every single mechanic in my plant had a set of the color-coded Hex Plus wrenches. They were used on $2 Million+ CNC machines every single day, where every single bolt was a Grade 12.9 SHCS torqued right up to the maximum allowed per the fastener. These wrenches were constantly soaked in oil and abused with cheaters and I have only seen the sleeve come off one single wrench.

and I don't see the point in spending more for color coding sleeves versus the blacklaser versions which are cheaper and have the same sizes and hex plus.

It doesn't matter since you're using the tool outside of the recommended use and spec (with a cheater bar).

And the world isn't a testing lab with precisely torqued fasteners. You're going to run into stuck fasteners, over-torqued fasteners, or fasteners in hard to locate places where it's difficult to get a good grip on them without using a cheater.

Like I said already, I've put a bend in the Wera Hex-Plus "blacklaser" key where the round-body wrench with the plastic sleeve dealt with that same amount of force without issue.

The more rigid body greatly reduces "wind-up", so if you have a bolt that suddenly pops free, it doesn't shock your hand as bad. Plus, the slightly larger diameter of the plastic sleeves coupled with the soft plastic makes them much easier on the hands in general.

$39.99 vs $13.99. Huge price difference (281% increase) for what amounts to really no difference other than sleeves and color coding.

I don't even get why you're trying to argue with me.

- I used BOTH styles of hex-plus wrenches literally every day as part of my job.

- I abused those wrenches mercilessly every day for over a year, I've only ever seen one sleeve come off, and that's after it'd been basically split in half by a cheater.

- I literally acknowledged (and posted a link!) in post #80 when I first brought the price up that you can get the cheaper non-sleeved versions if you're trying to save money.

- There is a tangible difference. The sleeved versions are a better, stronger, more premium tool that are more enjoyable to use. And seriously, you're talking $14 vs $40. It's $26. That's the price of 2 movie tickets, or half a tank of gas for a nice premium tool set that'll last you a lifetime. We're not talking $100 vs $500 here.

 

[American Locomotive]

Yes I showed that. However you'll note that the testing wasn't done to pull the sleeve off and over-time it will get loose or pull off. Not to mention it makes it thicker and harder to get into certain areas.

Once again, I used them every single day for over a year before one sleeve slipped off. I used them without issue on conplex CNC machines where every single screw is a SHCS and there is very limited space. Never had a problem

That's because the company buys it for you so it doesn't come out of your money. If it came out of your own paycheck for the tools then you would look closely at the differences not only in the price but in the irrelevance that the sleeve gives.

Guess what? I have a set of the color-coded sleeved ones at home, too. Bought with my own money. They're a better tool, and $26 is not worth worrying about.

You're still using the tool outside of it's recommended parameters and specifications. In short you're abusing the tool. Remove the sleeve and you'll find that round or hex doesn't matter.

Yes it literally does. It's physics and material science. The round shape has more material around a slightly large circumference (which means for a given alloy, it has to be more rigid) and the round shape removes area where stress can build up on the sharp points of the hex body

Then wear gloves or don't use a cheater bar that induces shock. Use tools intended for the job and not small hex keys ranging from 1.5mm to 10mm or SAE/Standard equivalents.

You can get the shock just by using your hands without a cheater on a particularly stuck bolt. The more rigid body reduces wind up, and hex keys are the only tool that will fit there. Yeah I could get a long handle hex key, but that'd have even more windup.

- Because you're trying to justify spending 281% more on little to no difference (I gave the links showing the price difference on KCTools) , while it may be your companies money and they don't care these are different times and it is an economic crisis. Every dollar matters even if it doesn't matter to you or your company

Dude, I posted both links showing the price difference in Post 80, I acknowldged the difference multiple times now.

You keep using "281% more" because it makes your point seem stronger and it's a big scary number. The price difference is just $26. The cost of dinner at a diner. It's a small price, insiginifcant for a high quality tool, that's enjoyable to use and will last a lifetime.

I use Vessel screwdrivers that cost 700% more than harbor freight freight screwdrivers. Sounds crazy except that it's $7 vs $1. Furthermore, your numbers are wrong anyways - it's 180% more.

It's wonderful that you love your cheap taiwanese hex keys. I'm sure they work great. But just because they work great, doesn't mean the Wera Sleeved Hex Plus aren't great. We pushed them every day to the limits, and they were the only keys that held up to the abuse, and were the only ones that did not damage fasteners over repeated use.

With equipment where a stripped screw could destroy a $15,000 toolholder, we can't afford to use lesser tools. We've tried them all, and the Wera Hex Plus Sleeved were the best. $26 is an absolute pittance for a tool that will last the average homeowner until they die.

 

[Ralf11]

I have multiple metric hex sets already, so it's not as if the only use phrase applies.

Too bad the local hardware store doesn't have them.

 

[r_olson_06]

I like Wera hex plus the best with Bondhus second.

I 100% agree.

Looking for a Plomb 3061 Pebble Open End.

 

[Ryan]

Hey fellas... please agree to disagree and move on.

Thank you.

 

[Samuel D]

The debate above boils down to value, but value is a subjective weighting of objective factors and a few unknowns that we each guess at, for example, whether one tool really will last longer than another just because it comes from a historically reputable brand.

So it’s pointless to tell someone that something is worth the $25 extra or not worth the $25 extra. It all depends on that someone’s own subjective calculus.

I have the expensive Wera Hex-Plus set with round covered handles. When I got them, I wasn’t aware of the cheaper Hex-Plus option or it wasn’t available yet. Otherwise I might have got that instead. To me, the cheaper set seems good value. But I don’t use these all day long, nor do I often deal with high torque. I deal with fasteners in weak metals (sometimes titanium or aluminium) and fasteners that are reused many times, for which Hex-Plus is a useful feature.

Hex-Plus is basically the inverse of Snap-on’s Flank Drive: it reduces wear in fastener and tool, especially when the fit is poor. But it’s under patent protection. Everyone will make keys like these when Wera’s patent expires, just like everyone copied Flank Drive when the patent expired.

I keep reading accounts of using the ball-end for high torque. Don’t do that. The ball end applies force on a minuscule, sliding contact patch in the fastener. It’s meant for spinning fasteners in and out with near-zero torque. You should never break loose or set a fastener with the ball end.

The twisted-handle keys shown earlier are not comparable to Hex-Plus. The twisted handle has no influence on how the tool acts on the fastener flats. I consider it a pointless gimmick. You could make the handle do a loop-the-loop and it would be just as useful.

 

[American Locomotive]

Exactly.

In our use case, we often had fasteners that had to be removed and installed frequently. We tested a lot of different hex keys, and the only ones we found that didn't damage fasteners over time were the Wera Hex-Plus (both sleeved, and unsleeved variants).

- If you want a basic, cheap high quality hex key set - get Bondhus or Eklind
- If you want something that won't damage fasteners, but is still cheap - get the Wera Blacklaser unsleeved hex key set. Other manufacturers may have an equivalent feature to "hex plus".
- If you frequently use hex keys in high-torque situations, want the best of the best and want a tool that is comfortable and enjoyable to use, spend the extra $25 and get the Wera round-body sleeved wrenches.
- If you want Bondhus quality at Wera prices - buy the Snap-On
- If you want a premium hex-key set with a slick geared holster that swings all the wrenches out - get the Wiha ErgoStars.

I'm sure there are other brands with features and performance similar to Bondhus , but I do not have experience with them.

Just is just IMHO, IANAL, YMMV

 

[Handyandy23]

Your experience differs from others who have used this tool. One individual experience doesn't counteract or cancel out the others.




From one of the most popular German and European tool distributors. Your math is also off it's a difference of $25.42 which doesn't round up to $26 (it's basic math).

You've been trying pretty hard to argue this point that the sleeves fail, but then the only proof I've seen is the video where the guy was abusing beating on them to try and make it come off, and it still didn't.

Is there something I missed in the novel-like posts where the claim the sleeves come off over time was actually backed up? Seems like something you said but are too stubborn to admit there's no proof of that happening.

Also the math 'correction' was pretty petty lol

 

[jeffmoss26]

no complaints with Eklind, Bondhus, or Klein that I use daily.

 

[Itsjustdirt]

Hey fellas... please agree to disagree and move on.

Thank you.

Let em talk, its all been informative!

Thanks American Locomotive and Avenging Bankroll. Lots of great info! I ended up going with the round, color coded Wera Hex Plus in standard, metric and torx. They just arrived and they look GREAT! I like the plastic as I think it will protect delicate surfaces from accidental hits. I also like the idea of the stiffer, round handle.

The cost was a little off-putting at first but then I thought about it... The price difference was small compared to the expensive equipment they will be used on and I just like the color coding for quick reference. I also like that they are easier on the hands.

The only "complaint" is the different holders for metric and imperial. One is plastic, one is cloth. That's goofy.

 

[Ryan]

Let em talk, its all been informative!

Thanks American Locomotive and Avenging Bankroll. Lots of great info! I ended up going with the round, color coded Wera Hex Plus in standard, metric and torx. They just arrived and they look GREAT! I like the plastic as I think it will protect delicate surfaces from accidental hits. I also like the idea of the stiffer, round handle.

The cost was a little off-putting at first but then I thought about it... The price difference was small compared to the expensive equipment they will be used on and I just like the color coding for quick reference. I also like that they are easier on the hands.

The only "complaint" is the different holders for metric and imperial. One is plastic, one is cloth. That's goofy.

I’m fine with discussion. Not fine with people arguing and calling each other names over Allen wrenches.

There’s no merit with this... if you think differently, you might wanna find another forum.

 

[American Locomotive]

You've been trying pretty hard to argue this point that the sleeves fail, but then the only proof I've seen is the video where the guy was abusing beating on them to try and make it come off, and it still didn't.

Is there something I missed in the novel-like posts where the claim the sleeves come off over time was actually backed up? Seems like something you said but are too stubborn to admit there's no proof of that happening.

Also the math 'correction' was pretty petty lol

I'm sure the sleeves will come off some wrenches due to adhesion issues or exposed to some kind of chemical, or excessive heat, or force. But it's not common. The 4,000+ positive reviews on Amazon are proof of that.

Just like how sometimes you'll have someone buy a Snap-On socket and immediately break it for no apparent reason. We know that's not normal, and manufacturing defects always happen.

I’m fine with discussion. Not fine with people arguing and calling each other names over Allen wrenches.

There’s no merit with this... if you think differently, you might wanna find another forum.

I did not see any insults or name-calling from either one of us. I don't see the problem with picking apart someones post piece-by-piece as long as it's remaining respectful?

But your forum, your rules.

 

[Itsjustdirt]

I’m fine with discussion. Not fine with people arguing and calling each other names over Allen wrenches.

There’s no merit with this... if you think differently, you might wanna find another forum.

Are we playing an admin power trip here? (speaking of which, did a post of mine get deleted by chance? I posted the same post about two hours earlier and it disappeared...could have been an error on my side, I suppose) Where's the arguing or name calling? Honestly asking because I didn't see a single instance... There was more informative posts from these two on allen wrenches in one thread than the whole internet and THAT is why I LOVE this forum.

Oh sorry, I meant, your forum, your rules. Sorry for sharing an opposing opinion.

edit- Darn you both for making me spend money! Now I'm buying the non-plastic sets for family/gifts and keeping the plastic ones for myself. Best of both worlds!

 

[Ryan]

I'm sure the sleeves will come off some wrenches due to adhesion issues or exposed to some kind of chemical, or excessive heat, or force. But it's not common. The 4,000+ positive reviews on Amazon are proof of that.

Just like how sometimes you'll have someone buy a Snap-On socket and immediately break it for no apparent reason. We know that's not normal, and manufacturing defects always happen.

I did not see any insults or name-calling from either one of us. I don't see the problem with picking apart someones post piece-by-piece as long as it's remaining respectful?

But your forum, your rules.

Be respectful and we are totally cool.

 

[Mr. T]

I haven't seen anything to suggest the Hex Plus with sleeves that I borrowed (used and brand new) is better than the blacklaser set or stainless version that I used.

I have both. In fact, I buy about 20 sets of the black laser version in metric and SAE a year for the techs at work. They are awesome and a great value.

That being said, the round stock sleeved version is a significantly higher quality tool. My set is going on 7 years old and is still in great shape. I haven’t been gentle with them either.

I’ve been through 3-4 sets of the black laser version in that time. For me, they’re almost disposable. I’ve cut them up for many different reasons. Then I throw the remaining ones in a drawer to use as replacements when someone eventually abuses one enough to break it, and I order a new set for myself.

I’ll have to post a picture of the “hex drawer” of my toolbox when I get back to work after the weekend. You guys might get a kick out it. I think I have at least eight sets of keys plus, sockets, larger loose keys, stubs for special situations, and even a 3/4” drive socket set.

Also, I’ve had no issues at all with the sleeves. I mean, they’re dirty, but still in good shape.

 

[Qualitytools]

After reading thru this thread I have ordered a set of metric Hex Plus WERA to try them out. Thanks for helping me spend my money

 

[Samuel D]

Here’s how the sleeves of my Wera Hex-Plus keys look after some years of regular but careful use:







Yes, the text is rubbing off the most-used ones, but I never need to read a size on these tools – I just grab the colour I want. The sleeves themselves are holding up nicely.

And here’s the head of the 5 mm:



Notice the nice, broad wear pattern on the flanks, proving the Hex-Plus design is doing its job.

Good tools.

 

[Handyandy23]

The patent expires next year so I'll wait and see what the competitors do with their own Hex Plus versions. Maybe it'll drive prices lower and bring more innovations from other manufacturers.

Wouldn't the time for innovation be anytime in the last decade? Waiting around for the patent to expire on someone else's good idea so you can steal it doesn't exactly scream innovation.

 

[Handyandy23]

Patents scream stifling the competition while driving up prices.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephe...s-market-do-patents-even-matter/#719ae57456f3

So say patents didn't exist, and some random Chinese startup company ripped off Hex Plus within 5 minutes of its invention and put them up for sale for $8 a set, that would have a positive net effect on the market?

Why even bother having engineers on staff when you can just wait for someone else to figure it out and then sell it cheaper? Might sound great for a person griping about the cost of the Wera's, but to me it sounds like a race to the bottom. Who can steal the most ideas and sell them the cheapest.

Where would any of the "quality" manufacturers be right now if there was no reward for innovation?

 

[Steve_P]

So say patents didn't exist, and some random Chinese startup company ripped off Hex Plus within 5 minutes of its invention and put them up for sale for $8 a set, that would have a positive net effect on the market?

Why even bother having engineers on staff when you can just wait for someone else to figure it out and then sell it cheaper? …...

Sounds like Harbor Freight!

 

[Qualitytools]

Here’s how the sleeves of my Wera Hex-Plus keys look after some years of regular but careful use:







Yes, the text is rubbing off the most-used ones, but I never need to read a size on these tools – I just grab the colour I want. The sleeves themselves are holding up nicely.

And here’s the head of the 5 mm:



Notice the nice, broad wear pattern on the flanks, proving the Hex-Plus design is doing its job.

Good tools.

Thanks for sharing as I am in need of a 5 mm to remove my crankshaft position sensor on my car. I ordered the WERA HEX + just as not to damage the fastener as it is in a very tight location under the starter

 

[GrayEngineer]

I have a large selection of Hex key wrenches, and I have to agree that Wera's Hex plus feature is excellent. I generally reach for PB Swiss wrenches more often then not because they fit fasteners very well and I get more feel feedback from them. The Wera wrenches don't give me as much feel feedback, and it's likely due to the round shank being larger in diameter making the handle portion more stiff. Bondhus wrenches are also a very good option, but they don't offer anything over the Wera and PB Swiss wrenches.

 

[Brandon_oma#692]

Are the hex plus available in bits/sockets to use on a 1/4 or 3 ratchet? I use 5mm and 6mm hex on a ratchet or T-handle most of the time. I rarely use the L keys.

 

[Samuel D]

As can be seen in some of those reviews, these bit sockets often break at the frivolous HF “holding function” (the ball near the tip) when given the kind of torque for which the Hex Plus feature is most useful.

Can they be got without that ball, I wonder.

 

[Brandon_oma#692]

Looks like I will be trying the L keys.

 

[Handyandy23]

Here's some test results comparing various 5mm Hex keys (Wera is included too):

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/heres-why-you-shouldnt-buy-the-cheapest-tools/

Ok this was a pretty solid link, even if the testing wasn't perfectly scientific. Still gives a decent idea on sizing for most brands. After reading this I ended up buying a set of Bondhus GoldGuard on Amazon for just about $21 CAD.

 

[Mr. T]

I’ll have to post a picture of the “hex drawer” of my toolbox when I get back to work after the weekend. You guys might get a kick out it.

 

[Samuel D]

Nice stuff, Mr. T. How did you break the brute at the top-right?

Those Torx keys are wondering where they made a wrong turn …

 

[Mr. T]

Nice stuff, Mr. T. How did you break the brute at the top-right?

I would call that a “trick of light.”

It’s a 14mm I cut down for a tight clearance use. I swear to you that the cut is square and chamfered.

Those Torx keys are wondering where they made a wrong turn …

They have more reason to be there than the 9mm socket than is 10 years old but seems to have never been used! (It has never been used)

I keep the “real” torx keys in a different drawer. Although that little cheap pack has served me well over the years.

Also, one of these days I’m going to throw that 4mm stub on the surface grinder to cut a notch. That way it won’t rattle out of the socket when I push my box a 1/4 mile to the next machine. (Also, also, that stub is a Wera hex plus key that I reappropriated).

 

[Qualitytools]

I too am in need of a 5 mm so I found this set

Wera 05056168001 Hex Bit-Check Set

I have the 3/8 holder already but from a Craftsman set. The tips of the Craftsman are worn so I figured I can insert the Wera hex + bits in place of the Craftsman bits

 

[Handyandy23]

Ok this was a pretty solid link, even if the testing wasn't perfectly scientific. Still gives a decent idea on sizing for most brands. After reading this I ended up buying a set of Bondhus GoldGuard on Amazon for just about $21 CAD.

The Bondhus GoldGuard set showed up today. Just for fun I measured a few compared to my current cheapo "Victory" brand set. My also-cheapo caliper only measures to 2 decimal places, so not exactly the same data as in that link, but the differences were pretty large.

The 5mm Bondhus measured right on 5.00, or 5.01 depending what side and how I measured. The 5mm Victory was as small as 4.97mm on one side. Every Bondhus size I checked was dead on either .00 or a hair larger. The Victory was hit or miss, some sizes were right on, others were as small as x.96mm.

I'm pretty pleased for $20.

 

[M6erfan]

The Bondhus GoldGuard set showed up today. Just for fun I measured a few compared to my current cheapo "Victory" brand set. My also-cheapo caliper only measures to 2 decimal places, so not exactly the same data as in that link, but the differences were pretty large.

The 5mm Bondhus measured right on 5.00, or 5.01 depending what side and how I measured. The 5mm Victory was as small as 4.97mm on one side. Every Bondhus size I checked was dead on either .00 or a hair larger. The Victory was hit or miss, some sizes were right on, others were as small as x.96mm.

I'm pretty pleased for $20.

They're good keys

 

[Itsjustdirt]

Ok, so I ponied up and bought all 3 sets (imperial, metric, hex) Wera Hex Plus with the plastic sleeves. I was excited to use them on RC projects and a bow(and many other things but these are the first I could think of to play with), only to be let down when almost every single allen bolt I use is a different size than packaged in the 3 above kits. So, here I am with $120 worth of hex/star keys and I'm still using my $10 proto set because it has all the sizes I need. I'm an idiot, clearly.

Do they make a "master" kit that cost a million dollars? I was playing around with a compound bow and its sight but the wrenches only fit on one or two bolts. Do I need a "hobby" kit too?

 

[JR 42]

Are your new Wera keys too big for what you need? I know nothing about bow sights and RC cars... There are definitely other smaller sizes in hex and torx (and larger sizes, too).

Looks like 5/64", 1.5mm, and T8 are the smallest in the Wera sets. .050", ?? 1.0 or maybe 0.7mm, and T1 (small bit, not hex key) are the smallest hex and torx sizes that I recall seeing readily available in sets, but a look at pretty much any Bondhus page will show sizes even smaller (in hex, at least).

 

[American Locomotive]

Ok, so I ponied up and bought all 3 sets (imperial, metric, hex) Wera Hex Plus with the plastic sleeves. I was excited to use them on RC projects and a bow(and many other things but these are the first I could think of to play with), only to be let down when almost every single allen bolt I use is a different size than packaged in the 3 above kits. So, here I am with $120 worth of hex/star keys and I'm still using my $10 proto set because it has all the sizes I need. I'm an idiot, clearly.

Do they make a "master" kit that cost a million dollars? I was playing around with a compound bow and its sight but the wrenches only fit on one or two bolts. Do I need a "hobby" kit too?

What sizes do you need? The standard Wera sets have all the same sized wrenches the standard Bondhus and Wiha sets do, which is usually 1.5mm through 10mm. It looks like 1.5mm is the smallest Wera makes.

Wiha makes a micro-set that I've used before: https://www.wihatools.com/mini-hex-l-key-metric-5-piece-set

As can be seen in some of those reviews, these bit sockets often break at the frivolous HF “holding function” (the ball near the tip) when given the kind of torque for which the Hex Plus feature is most useful.

Can they be got without that ball, I wonder.

The holding detent isn't really that frivolous at all. It's a god-send when you're trying to remove a screw that's deep inside a machine that's 6 feet wide and you have 6 extensions stacked. However I will concede that the detent ball definitely makes them too weak. We broke a lot of Wera "HF" bit sockets in high-torque situations.

Definitely not the same quality of tool as their L-keys.

 

[Arne73]

I like this long reach metric set...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Arne73]

I like this long reach metric set...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Itsjustdirt]

What sizes do you need? The standard Wera sets have all the same sized wrenches the standard Bondhus and Wiha sets do, which is usually 1.5mm through 10mm. It looks like 1.5mm is the smallest Wera makes.

Wiha makes a micro-set that I've used before: https://www.wihatools.com/mini-hex-l-key-metric-5-piece-set

Thanks, the first two sizes I can think of that I use a lot but aren't in the "good" sets are 7/64 and 9/64. I'm sure there will be more, but those two get used quite a bit. I'll have to see if they sell them individually. edit- Looks like they only sell them in stainless with no sleeve, in the round versions. :-( I hate mismatched sets but I guess it is what it is.


Now I'm looking into t-handle sets because most of them come with the 7/64 and 9/64. Is it safe to say Bondhus is the way to go seeing as wera only sells individual t-handles? The Bondhus is about $30/set but I'm fine paying more for something better. Thanks again for all the knowledge sharing.