Alternate / Off-Grid Energy ideas and solutions

[pftwhftb]

I searched and did not see any threads dedicated to the ideas of using an alternate power source or off-grid power source. I have the dream of someday pulling myself off the commercial power grid and creating my own power source independent from the power companies.

Right now I have backup power in the form of a generator and a DIY small battery back up system. These backup power systems I have will last me roughly 7 - 14 days depending on the rationing power usage and fuel. The power has gone out in my area for that long during a winter storm in 2013.

Most of my knowledge has come from my own research and building my own small systems. I also had a motor home that I used to own and could go off grid in it for roughly 21 days without returning to civilization to refuel. If I ran off just solar on it with the 50 watt panel then that time could be extended for a very long time.

I will be posting pictures of my power sources and solutions for future power systems that there could be. The technology for wind and solar energy generation is not quite to the level to make it all affordable or efficient yet, but with my new garage I might be able to develop my own efficient generation for usage and someday unplug from the grid at least partially.

Please post your ideas and questions.... I am no expert and am a tinkerer by definition. I have just basic knowledge of alternate power and usage compared to many electrical experts.

 

[jimp]

Wrong forum, look for some survival forums for more responses.

But do you own the mineral rights where you live?

I have a gas well and natural gas generators for power outages, but power is still to cheap to generate it myself full time (even with free fuel).

 

[pftwhftb]

Wrong forum, look for some survival forums for more responses.

But do you own the mineral rights where you live?

I have a gas well and natural gas generators for power outages, but power is still to cheap to generate it myself full time (even with free fuel).

So living in your own home off grid and building the devices to generate your own power in your garage to do this is to be posted in survival forums? Would have figured everyone would be interested in this technology. But if it needs deleted I can contact the moderator to get it removed.

No, I live in a small town within city limits and do not own my mineral rights. Having your own natural gas would be superb though.

 

[jimp]

No it's ok here I was just suggesting more responses from them. Did not mean to upset you, sorry.

 

[CNGsaves]

Might be good to "shotgun" your questions/ideas to both forums. There have been a couple good threads in past about self-sufficient solar with hotbox on sunny side of garage.

Kudos to you for trying and doing all you have . . . this IS the future. Solar, wind, bio-earth, and all alternative energy ideas should be pursued.

Houses will someday get to where trash/human waste is processed in digester to capture methane for heating / automobile fuel (ie CNG . . compressed natural gas). What's sad is large methane digesters SHOULD already be happening in major city wastewater plants, landfills, etc but only a handful exist so far. Medium-sized digesters now popping up for stockyards of cattle, dairy farms, chicken farms, hog farms, and even throw-away food waste in Las Vegas. Many use the methane byproduct to burn in genset to create electricity. Some also cleaning up the methane for compression as CNG.

Keep up the brainstorming . . . curious GJer's like me would like to learn!

 

[pftwhftb]

No it's ok here I was just suggesting more responses from them. Did not mean to upset you, sorry.

Survivalist forums have some strange beliefs and ideas. Good and strange. I like the more mechanical ideas and MacGyver'isms that GJ'ers might come up with. I think the forum as a whole can have quite a few good things going for them.

I don't want to live in the middle of the forest living off the trees, land animals Etc. I would like to live in my house more independent from "the man". And also be prepared for emergencies like power outages, tornadoes, blizzards etc.

It's all good

Might be good to "shotgun" your questions/ideas to both forums. There have been a couple good threads in past about self-sufficient solar with hotbox on sunny side of garage.

Kudos to you for trying and doing all you have . . . this IS the future. Solar, wind, bio-earth, and all alternative energy ideas should be pursued.

Houses will someday get to where trash/human waste is processed in digester to capture methane for heating / automobile fuel (ie CNG . . compressed natural gas). What's sad is large methane digesters SHOULD already be happening in major city wastewater plants, landfills, etc but only a handful exist so far. Medium-sized digesters now popping up for stockyards of cattle, dairy farms, chicken farms, hog farms, and even throw-away food waste in Las Vegas. Many use the methane byproduct to burn in genset to create electricity. Some also cleaning up the methane for compression as CNG.

Keep up the brainstorming . . . curious GJer's like me would like to learn!

It is the future. I have been very slowly moving towards backup ideas for many years now. Basically I got interested in it from the family camping trips and the fact that when we get blizzards in South Dakota we get 30-50 ft snow drifts and sometimes the power goes out for weeks. Here it gets sometimes 60 below windchill during a blizzard. So you have to have a backup just to survive in your own house.

There is some great tech out there that I wish was more readily available. Problem is that companies are more interested in the profits than they actually are in making the world better.

I will post a few pictures later tonight of some of the back up power things I have done. None are high tech or state of the art, but they work very well for me. My next thing I want to solve is wind generators that are efficient enough to use in the sometimes 60-80 mph wind we get here. Plus making my house as efficient as I can.

It will all be a process and sourcing affordable solutions is the main obstacle, batteries is the most expensive part of it. If I could get ahold of a bunch of golf cart batteries I could have an amazing system.

 

[don long]

I am very interested in this discussion
I am over the provided power now to my house and garage

How big of a generator do I need to supply me with 250 amps of power ??

 

[pftwhftb]

I am very interested in this discussion
I am over the provided power now to my house and garage

How big of a generator do I need to supply me wirh 250 amps of power ??

That would be a gigantic generator. Your talking probably a 60,000 watt diesel generator that would cost A lot for just for the generator, not talking about wiring it and setting up fuel storage. I will research them and see if I can get one close to what you might need.

The thing that a lot of peolple don't realize about setting up with an alternate power source is that you have to change your lifestyle to do so. For instance, if you are using the generator for just backup power for an outage you won't want to energize everything in your house, just the important stuff. For living off a totally off grid setup you would have to be very choosy on the appliances and devices you would be running. The amps and watts that each pull continuously and the start up wattage.

The generator I have is a 3,500 watt continuous run, 4,000 watt start up gasoline generator. I can run two 1,200 watt heater full blast without an issue, and a few small devices. To power my other things such as fridge, freezer I have to unplug the heaters. My battery backup system has 4 gel deep cell batteries hooked in parallel with two 800 watt modified sine wave inverters on them. I can run lamps with cfl's, cell chargers, small appliances, tv, etc for approximately 96 hours without needing to charge the system. I normally only run one of the 800 watt inverters on it at a time unless I have very specific bigger needs.

Here is a nice guide to compare to what wattage items pull. These are approximate. From my testing items don't always pull the wattage they are advertised to pull, some less, some more.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/generator-wattage-estimation-guide

 

[Jlbc212]

I'm no prophet, but I predict utility poles and overhead power lines will be obsolete in the not too distant future. I suggest you look into fuel cells. Toyota has come out with a fuel cell powered automobile. Their fuel cell technology is also being used to generate power. Their technology presently uses pure hydrogen, but any hydrogen containing fuel, such as methane, can be a source of hydrogen. Research labs are also working hard to make nuclear fusion a reality. It already is with our sun. We just need to figure out how to get it going on a much smaller scale here.

 

[trainer]

I've got a summer cabin thats "off grid" I have a propane fridge, stove and hot water heater. 12 volt battery runs an rv-type water pump. A chinese 3,000 watt gasoline generator runs lights, tv, battery charger, etc and is generally only run at night

For 30-40 nights a year, the initial outlay and upkeep for solar panels, batteries, etc would be too much. My generator costs about $.50 an hour to operate, but is still much cheaper than the alternatives.

 

[trainer]

I am very interested in this discussion
I am over the provided power now to my house and garage

How big of a generator do I need to supply me wirh 250 amps of power ??

250amps X 240 volts= 60,000 watts or 60 kw.

 

[jeff000]

I am very interested in this discussion
I am over the provided power now to my house and garage

How big of a generator do I need to supply me wirh 250 amps of power ??

Well 250amps at 240v is 60,000 watts.
A generator that large would be 10,000+ depending on how high end you want to go with it.
But are you trying to keep a welding shop open when the power is out?
A 10,000 watt generator would let you run a normal house as you do now.

 

[jeff000]

I'm no prophet, but I predict utility poles and overhead power lines will be obsolete in the not too distant future. I suggest you look into fuel cells. Toyota has come out with a fuel cell powered automobile. Their fuel cell technology is also being used to generate power. Their technology presently uses pure hydrogen, but any hydrogen containing fuel, such as methane, can be a source of hydrogen. Research labs are also working hard to make nuclear fusion a reality. It already is with our sun. We just need to figure out how to get it going on a much smaller scale here.

You need to define not too distant future. We will never see every house with their own nuclear power source. And I really can't see the adoption of a power source that needed to be refueled constantly like a fuel cell.

At best we will see more smaller power generation stations so we can get rid of the mass high power transmission lines.

But even if tomorrow someone made a house where the shingles could generate all the power the house would need and make it cost only double what normal shingles cost it would be 20 years or more before even half the houses out there had this means of power, probably less as I bet the cost of power would plummet as more and more people left the grid, making it less and less cost effective to switch.
And then heavy industry will keep the grid going for decades longer that that even.

It would be even longer for the adoption places like Alberta where our grid basically never goes down. In the 20 years that I remember enough to comment about I don't think the power has been out for an hour total.

 

[dogdog]

wonder if any one have successfully converted their generator to run on Gasifiers.

 

[pftwhftb]

I'm no prophet, but I predict utility poles and overhead power lines will be obsolete in the not too distant future. I suggest you look into fuel cells. Toyota has come out with a fuel cell powered automobile. Their fuel cell technology is also being used to generate power. Their technology presently uses pure hydrogen, but any hydrogen containing fuel, such as methane, can be a source of hydrogen. Research labs are also working hard to make nuclear fusion a reality. It already is with our sun. We just need to figure out how to get it going on a much smaller scale here.

That is the future, I am definitely not smart enough to develop something like that. I do hope to get something developed in the future though.

I've got a summer cabin thats "off grid" I have a propane fridge, stove and hot water heater. 12 volt battery runs an rv-type water pump. A chinese 3,000 watt gasoline generator runs lights, tv, battery charger, etc and is generally only run at night

For 30-40 nights a year, the initial outlay and upkeep for solar panels, batteries, etc would be too much. My generator costs about $.50 an hour to operate, but is still much cheaper than the alternatives.

That sounds like a great setup. I'm sure you have things cut down pretty tight on what is running and what wattage things are pulling. That is the stuff I want to get into, I go camping a lot and learn a lot about off grid applications while camping.
Solar and wind is very expensive in start up, that's why I have not explored it as much as I want to. Takes too much start up to get very little return because of the efficiency.

250amps X 240 volts= 60,000 watts or 60 kw.

Yes that is what I figured, but Generac makes a 200 amp smart switch that their 22kw generator can use. Considering that most houses aren't pulling a constant 200 amps it has the ability to switch to 100 amp to a double pull of 200 amps. This is if I am understanding it correctly. Like I said, I am no expert, but I enjoy discussing all of this and learning more.

http://gens.lccdn.com/generaccorpor...ardian-series/0k8458-guardian-16-22kw-hsb.pdf

 

[jeff000]

wonder if any one have successfully converted their generator to run on Gasifiers.

The bigger problem would be the actual syngas as any gas engine can burn syngas.
Getting syngas at this point on a smaller scale is not worth it at all.

 

[pftwhftb]

wonder if any one have successfully converted their generator to run on Gasifiers.

I have seen many YouTube videos on this and it is quite an interesting process and technology. I have also seen a process on YouTube to turn melted plastic back into its original crude oil and into a burnable refined fuel sources.

 

[pftwhftb]

You need to define not too distant future. We will never see every house with their own nuclear power source. And I really can't see the adoption of a power source that needed to be refueled constantly like a fuel cell.

At best we will see more smaller power generation stations so we can get rid of the mass high power transmission lines.

But even if tomorrow someone made a house where the shingles could generate all the power the house would need and make it cost only double what normal shingles cost it would be 20 years or more before even half the houses out there had this means of power, probably less as I bet the cost of power would plummet as more and more people left the grid, making it less and less cost effective to switch.
And then heavy industry will keep the grid going for decades longer that that even.

It would be even longer for the adoption places like Alberta where our grid basically never goes down. In the 20 years that I remember enough to comment about I don't think the power has been out for an hour total.

I think that is a key. Big business will always try to keep a stranglehold on us because if they don't they lose profits.

Then also every part of the world/country has different needs and have to produce power differently. I have a lot of sun I the summer and can produce solar power, but I have extreme hail that will damage the panels. I also have dark winters but have a lot of wind for wind genrators. Wind generation isn't the most efficient way yet and the cost to the actual power you get out of it is not great.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Solar and wind are your choices. Some of both are your best bet. Charger and inverters keep getting better. Good quality ones (pure sine wave inverter) are still expensive.

Something easy and not too expensive to start with is a used computer Uniterruptable Power Supply (UPS). APC makes the best out there and you can find them cheap at auctions or on CL. Most people do not know that if the battery is completely dead, they will not turn on ! New battery, new life !!

The "light" duty one use a standard 12V lead acid battery. Replace it with a deep cycle marine/RV battery. Medium duty use 24V battery bank. Heavy duty use 48V battery bank.

Be careful with the power ratings. Power output listed on the unit is for a relative short period of time (unless you find and "extended run" model) they will burn up if you try running them near full power for more than 20-30 minutes if you don't add substantially more cooling !


Last, UPSs are not the "optimal" solution. Their efficiency is about 80% where as the best "off grid" inverters are over 90%.

 

[LennyTheLizard]

INTERESTING:

I am always interested in Alternate Energy / Off-Grid Info.
I am also an engineer and must see the ROI. The discussions on this topic are already going in a good direction.

If the power grid goes OFF and you have no energy, all the sudden that alternate source becomes much more valuable. But what is the statistic of this situation happening and for how long. How much capital are you willing to spend in order to not suffer the occasional power outage.

And if you are truly trying to go off-grid: what is initial investment vs. $/KWH, and how long will it take to get payback. How long will equipment last before you have to re-invest?

These statements are not meant to be confrontational, just random thoughts. Interested in seeing where this thread goes.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Batteries are another big issue. Nothing can beat "flooded" lead acid for low cost and high energy density. Golf cart batteries (6v) work well. Keep water in them and keep them clean.

 

[jeff000]

I think that is a key. Big business will always try to keep a stranglehold on us because if they don't they lose profits.

Then also every part of the world/country has different needs and have to produce power differently. I have a lot of sun I the summer and can produce solar power, but I have extreme hail that will damage the panels. I also have dark winters but have a lot of wind for wind genrators. Wind generation isn't the most efficient way yet and the cost to the actual power you get out of it is not great.

It's not even the power companies that will have the control.
It's the commercial and industrial locations, high rise buildings. Things like that.

A steel mill will have a peak draw in the millions of watts. That is a tough draw to be supported by localized power means. The downtown core would have similar issues, just no where to produce the power locally.

I really don't think we will ever be gridless. I think our need for more and more power will keep that from ever happening.

 

[pftwhftb]

Solar and wind are your choices. Some of both are your best bet. Charger and inverters keep getting better. Good quality ones (pure sine wave inverter) are still expensive.

Something easy and not too expensive to start with is a used computer Uniterruptable Power Supply (UPS). APC makes the best out there and you can find them cheap at auctions or on CL. Most people do not know that if the battery is completely dead, they will not turn on ! New battery, new life !!

The "light" duty one use a standard 12V lead acid battery. Replace it with a deep cycle marine/RV battery. Medium duty use 24V battery bank. Heavy duty use 48V battery bank.

Be careful with the power ratings. Power output listed on the unit is for a relative short period of time (unless you find and "extended run" model) they will burn up if you try running them near full power for more than 20-30 minutes if you don't add substantially more cooling !


Last, UPSs are not the "optimal" solution. Their efficiency is about 80% where as the best "off grid" inverters are over 90%.

I try to run my generator at 50% power for any extended period of time. Longest I ran mine was 12 hours straight during a blizzard for heat. I only used one heater at a time and just alternated the turning of them on.

I use gel cell 12 deep cycle batteries obtained from a cable companies power supplies that they use for their own battery back up during outages. They are rated at 96 amp hours a piece. Not starting batteries. They are very good batteries for my purpose.

INTERESTING:

I am always interested in Alternate Energy / Off-Grid Info.
I am also an engineer and must see the ROI. The discussions on this topic are already going in a good direction.

If the power grid goes OFF and you have no energy, all the sudden that alternate source becomes much more valuable. But what is the statistic of this situation happening and for how long. How much capital are you willing to spend in order to not suffer the occasional power outage.

And if you are truly trying to go off-grid: what is initial investment vs. $/KWH, and how long will it take to get payback. How long will equipment last before you have to re-invest?

These statements are not meant to be confrontational, just random thoughts. Interested in seeing where this thread goes.

Right now I have about $800 invested in my back up power. It meets my needs for emergencies. I am very far away from off grid applications.

I do believe the only thing that is stopping me is that the cost for kWh is not very good. I have researched the output of solar and wind genrators and for the cost they just don't put out enough juice to be cost effective yet. A golf course getting rid of their batteries would be great to get ahold of. Those are thes best batteries to get as long as you install a automated watering system for them to keep them in shape.

Not confrontational at all, these are the questions that need to be confronted.

Batteries are another big issue. Nothing can beat "flooded" lead acid for low cost and high energy density. Golf cart batteries (6v) work well. Keep water in them and keep them clean.

I wish I could get some golf cart batteries for a good price. They make self watering systems that will do it for you that I have seen.

It's not even the power companies that will have the control.
It's the commercial and industrial locations, high rise buildings. Things like that.

A steel mill will have a peak draw in the millions of watts. That is a tough draw to be supported by localized power means. The downtown core would have similar issues, just no where to produce the power locally.

I really don't think we will ever be gridless. I think our need for more and more power will keep that from ever happening.

Very true, but for us residential people I think we could pull off grid in 20 years, maybe sooner for us inventive people. I would like to be able to be partially independent in 10 years. I am slowly switching to all LED lighting and I'm trying to get efficient appliances. My biggest issue in SD is heating. I am all electric and will need to come up with something better before I can use alternate power for that.

 

[jeff000]

Very true, but for us residential people I think we could pull off grid in 20 years, maybe sooner for us inventive people. I would like to be able to be partially independent in 10 years. I am slowly switching to all LED lighting and I'm trying to get efficient appliances. My biggest issue in SD is heating. I am all electric and will need to come up with something better before I can use alternate power for that.

It's almost cost effective to be off the power grid at this point if you are a DIYer and find some deals. Although would need natural gas for stove, heat, and dryer. For the rest of your power needs solar and a small battery array could cover you. With a NG backup generator for those times you need a little extra juice. But you are probably 12 years return on your investment.

 

[don long]

250amps X 240 volts= 60,000 watts or 60 kw.

Thanks trainer
That's what I needed to know tostart my research

are you trying to keep a welding shop open when the power is out?
A 10,000 watt generator would let you run a normal house as you do now.

jeff000
I'm not trying to keep the lights on when the power goes out. I have a huge museum full of neon signs and spot lights.
When I throw a party I risk popping the house main breaker (200 amp)
and that is without running air conditioning in the house or garage.

That would be a gigantic generator. Your talking probably a 60,000 watt diesel generator that would cost A lot for just for the generator, not talking about wiring it and setting up fuel storage. I will research them and see if I can get one close to what you might need.

pftwhftb

Every time I open the museum up for a party it takes a day or two to set the place up and then the party goes on for 5 - 6 hours with everything lit
and then there is clean up after the party.

It's about a 24 - 30 hour process and my electric bill increases between $400 and $600 for each event So the budget is fairly large to solve my problem

Remember that I need a/c in the garage/museum in the summer and I don't have enough energy to opperate it let alone adding more signs or displays

Thanks for your help

Don

 

[theoldwizard1]

I use gel cell 12 deep cycle batteries obtained from a cable companies power supplies that they use for their own battery back up during outages. They are rated at 96 amp hours a piece. Not starting batteries. They are very good batteries for my purpose.

And I'll bet the price is right !

Still, these are really not what you want for a long term off grid solution !

One of the best flooded lead acid battery companies out there is Trojan Battery.

 

[jeff000]

Thanks trainer
That's what I needed to know tostart my research



jeff000
I'm not trying to keep the lights on when the power goes out. I have a huge museum full of neon signs and spot lights.
When I throw a party I risk popping the house main breaker (200 amp)
and that is without running air conditioning in the house or garage.

Every time I open the museum up for a party it takes a day or two to set the place up and then the party goes on for 5 - 6 hours with everything lit
and then there is clean up after the party.

It's about a 24 - 30 hour process and my electric bill increases between $400 and $600 for each event So the budget is fairly large to solve my problem

Remember that I need a/c in the garage/museum in the summer and I don't have enough energy to opperate it let alone adding more signs or displays

Thanks for your help

Don

Homedepot has a 60,000 watt generator package for $17,000, and probably 4k to have it installed, or 1k for you to do it yourself.

At an average of 500 a party it would take 34 events to pay for the initial costs if you have free fuel.

And 862 cubic feet an hour in natural gas, or 9 gallons an hour diesel. So once you add those costs in you will never recover your costs as the fuel is more than buying from the grid.


I would see if the POCO would give you a second service to your garage/museum. With your useage I bet they would.


Doing some math.... what are you paying per KW? At your max 60kw even at 10c a KWH you are only paying 6 bucks an hour to run from the grid. Running the generator will run you $20+ an hour even with dyed diesel.

 

[egnorant]

Huge subject with many paths.

Been looking at nickel/iron batteries for a home setup seems promising...except for the price!

Gotta balance and justify production/storage/distribution/usage/cost to get what is right for you.

Bruce

 

[pftwhftb]

And I'll bet the price is right !

Still, these are really not what you want for a long term off grid solution !

One of the best flooded lead acid battery companies out there is Trojan Battery.

The price was amazing, and that is why I still using them for my rolling cart system. I'll post pics when I get to my pc later tonight I have looked at those batteries as the primary choice when I do get further down the road of building something grand.

 

[pftwhftb]

Thanks trainer
That's what I needed to know tostart my research



jeff000
I'm not trying to keep the lights on when the power goes out. I have a huge museum full of neon signs and spot lights.
When I throw a party I risk popping the house main breaker (200 amp)
and that is without running air conditioning in the house or garage.

That would be a gigantic generator. Your talking probably a 60,000 watt diesel generator that would cost A lot for just for the generator, not talking about wiring it and setting up fuel storage. I will research them and see if I can get one close to what you might need.

pftwhftb

Every time I open the museum up for a party it takes a day or two to set the place up and then the party goes on for 5 - 6 hours with everything lit
and then there is clean up after the party.

It's about a 24 - 30 hour process and my electric bill increases between $400 and $600 for each event So the budget is fairly large to solve my problem

Remember that I need a/c in the garage/museum in the summer and I don't have enough energy to opperate it let alone adding more signs or displays

Thanks for your help

Don

What If instead of increasing your power so you can run everything if you decreased your power needs by investing in more efficient lighting and appliances? It would probably be cheaper than investing in a $20k or so generator. LED lighting alone would probably save you tons of money and energy consumption. I'm not sure what wattage of light you are using though.

 

[don long]

I would see if the POCO would give you a second service to your garage/museum. With your useage I bet they would.

Doing some math.... what are you paying per KW? At your max 60kw even at 10c a KWH you are only paying 6 bucks an hour to run from the grid. Running the generator will run you $20+ an hour even with dyed diesel.

What If instead of increasing your power so you can run everything if you decreased your power needs by investing in more efficient lighting and appliances? It would probably be cheaper than investing in a $20k or so generator. LED lighting alone would probably save you tons of money and energy consumption. I'm not sure what wattage of light you are using though.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the responce
Getting more power to the building is what i'm after. The cost is secondary at this point.

I tried the power co. They sent me back to the city who said only one meter per property and 200 amps is all for residentual property

Funny you mentioned more efficient lighting. I just returned to the GJ from purchasing 50 LED spot lights on Ebay

 

[rsanter]

Right off the bat I am opposed to off grid unless you are way out of the way.
The grid is the best battery you can have. Using net metering and feeding the grid during the day and then using at night. Batteries are bulky, heavy, and expensive and don't last that long.

Now if you are off grid and away from grid that's a different story.
If it was me I would charge into batteries directly without an inverter and then setup my lighting and as much as I could to be 12 or 24 volts to avoid the converter loses.
For things that cannot be run off of 12 or 24 volt I would have inverters for those and you could even have a generator that you use for just when you are using an oven or something like that.
Do you have solar reveal? If you do you could build a solar hydronic system that would bring some heat into the house and then supplement with propane or wood.
When using wood I would have a coil around the wood stove that you had a small pump that circulated the water through the floor that would distribute the heat throughout the house
Same with the water. You can use a solar water heater and the supplement with a coil that went around the wood stove or the fireplace chimney.

Also look at solar atriums and such so have enclosed indoor/outdoor spaces that will not only act as a sort of buffer or insulator between the inside and outside tempatures but will also collect some heat during the day

Bob

 

[HOTFR8]

Plenty have posted about Solar Power, just do a search on the topic.

 

[jeff000]

Getting more power to the building is what i'm after. The cost is secondary at this point.

I tried the power co. They sent me back to the city who said only one meter per property and 200 amps is all for residentual property

Funny you mentioned more efficient lighting. I just returned to the GJ from purchasing 50 LED spot lights on Ebay

I'm surprised the city would say that and not hear your story. There are several variances around here for a second service.

60,000 watts is a lot, I picture a large building to have enough signage and stuff to use that much power and not be brighter than looking at the sun.

I also feel like the signage is what's using the most power and not the ambient light and not sure how much you can change out for led.

A big generator will certainly get extra power into your building. And if cost isn't the issue, then that is the easiest.

 

[mdbeck1]

I'm surprised the city would say that and not hear your story. There are several variances around here for a second service.

60,000 watts is a lot, I picture a large building to have enough signage and stuff to use that much power and not be brighter than looking at the sun.

I also feel like the signage is what's using the most power and not the ambient light and not sure how much you can change out for led.

A big generator will certainly get extra power into your building. And if cost isn't the issue, then that is the easiest.

You need to go look at Don's thread. ...but get a good cup of coffee first. You'll be there for a while.

Don,
You've got an awesome place. Sorry to hear about the power problems. I've got an RV that I run off of a generator during hunting season. While doing research I found a site that said to figure out your max power (watts) and double the size of that. That will keep you from popping the breakers and ensure that you have enough power during peak operation.

Now,
Back to the Off grid ideas.

Still thinking about solar for the RV. Found a thread on another site that detailed out what one person did. He ended up with a 200 Watt system. I think it ended up being several $k. Too rich for my blood right now.

 

[pftwhftb]

DON,
If cost is not an issue ( I dream of that someday) then a big diesel or LP/NG generator is your answer. It will meet all your requirements.

I checked out your "garage" Don, it is simply amazing. You have more money in that then my entire family could make in 4 generations. Keep up the good work on it and charish it.

You need to go look at Don's thread. ...but get a good cup of coffee first. You'll be there for a while.

Don,
You've got an awesome place. Sorry to hear about the power problems. I've got an RV that I run off of a generator during hunting season. While doing research I found a site that said to figure out your max power (watts) and double the size of that. That will keep you from popping the breakers and ensure that you have enough power during peak operation.

Now,
Back to the Off grid ideas.

Still thinking about solar for the RV. Found a thread on another site that detailed out what one person did. He ended up with a 200 Watt system. I think it ended up being several $k. Too rich for my blood right now.

You could DIY a 200 watt system for less than several $k. Probably less than $1k. Look online at solar panels and good inverters for your RV. I had a 50 watt solar panel in my old RV and 2 Marine batteries with 3 gel deep cell batteries. It could run for a long time with just that set up. Now I couldn't run my microwave or big stuff unless I fired up the generator, but I could run everything else through the inverter.

 

[pftwhftb]

Here are some of the pics of my small mobile battery system I built. It is just for small appliances, lamps and device charging. The batteries were from a cable system power supply. They dispose of the batteries after a shelf life regardless of their condition. These were 5 years old when I got them and I have had them since 2010 and they still work great after 9 years of service. I float charge them once a month or so,

 

[don long]

You need to go look at Don's thread. ...but get a good cup of coffee first. You'll be there for a while.

Don,
You've got an awesome place. Sorry to hear about the power problems. I've got an RV that I run off of a generator during hunting season. While doing research I found a site that said to figure out your max power (watts) and double the size of that. That will keep you from popping the breakers and ensure that you have enough power during peak operation.

Thanks for that complement mdbeck1

I have the info that I was looking for (60kw) I can go forward from here

DON,
If cost is not an issue ( I dream of that someday) then a big diesel or LP/NG generator is your answer. It will meet all your requirements.

I checked out your "garage" Don, it is simply amazing. You have more money in that then my entire family could make in 4 generations. Keep up the good work on it and charish it.

So pftwhftb
Thanks for those kind words
Now you see what my problem is.
Thank you for the help. My questions have been answered tonight so it's off to bed.

 

[macdabs]

Don,
You need to set up a 800 amp panel feeding 200 amp ATS panels and a 80 kw diesel or NG/propane generator . An 80 kw generator under full load would use around 4-gallons per hour. I would think you would have around 40K if you did the majority of the installation yourself.

Your place is awesome and a definite labor of love. I wish I had your energy and figure you must be driven by some good friends or a strong wife.


Mac

 

[jives]

At this point in time I think you best bet is a variety of energy sources coupled with more efficiency. I would check out multifuel (i.e., biomass) stoves like Sedora that can burn wood chips, switch grass, or waste biomass. Heating is the biggest energy consumer, so remove it from the electric needs. Then calculate your electric needs.