Alternative energy?

[AndyL]

Ok, well it seems like it's a popular topic here...

Anyone taken their garage/out buildings off grid?

Our new (to us) house, currently has a (thus far) unheated 30x26 garage, greenhouse (with 220v power, and a 70s vintage forced air furnace) and I know the wife's got her eye on a hot tub...

My wallet hurts thinking about the power bill

--

Heating the garage, greenhouse and hot tub; Pondering evacuated tube solar water heaters. Only question becomes that 50' run between the garage roof and the greenhouse/hot tub (they're not in good locations for solar, tucked in the shadow of the house)

The new place is located on the edge of town, basically bald flat prairie to my front door, faces SSW - prevailing wind is WNW- Class 3 on the wind maps. Mean annual average at 50' is 240W/m2. There's no bylaws against a wind generator; but never really looked into them before - I've run across a few that drove me nuts with the drone of the blades...

Dunno about PV, we've got 300w on the RV, that could be easily tapped into when it's home... Doubt we'd pay for more PV panels, unless they happened to be a smokin deal...

Gotta sit down and do a bunch of research, anyone have suggestion/advice? We've booked a local off-grid type alternative energy co. to come out and have a look/quote, but I'm more a DIY'er than a pay out the nose to have it done...

 

[green.bubbly]

It is hard to justify the cost of solar if there are no government incentives or rebates. Not sure what Canada is offering.

 

[Tscott]

I agree with Green.Bubbly, photovoltaic is probably the last thing I would look at. I considered building an array in my back yard, but payback was too far out and I just could not justify that kind of outlay of cash. I think you are on the right track with the solar water heater though I am gonna build one for my shop and if all goes well I'll build one for the house.

Tom

 

[wssix99]

The farther north you go, the less attractive solar is.

In Calgary, you might be in good shape to put up a wind turbine depending on how your wind comes off the mountains. (I've seen do-it-yourself kits that you can make out of old alternators.)

The key to doing this kind of thing is the power company. If you can sell the power you generate back to them when you don't need it and then use those funds as credits for extra power when you do, that lessens your spend on equipment. If not, then you need extra equipment to cover your peak usage.

 

[Falcon67]

We have wind and sun out the ****. However, I lack the mere $30,000 it takes to put up a decent array, tower and turbine so I just insulated like crazy and deal with it. Not out there that much. However, I did orient the building such that if the opportunity presented its self, we could mount 40' or so of panels across the back and back feed the house power.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

If you're concerned about your energy bills, why don't you start out with a managable project rather than jumping to "take my house off grid".

Even if you were going to go off/grid, step 1 is make the house as energy efficient as possible so you don't have to pay for more KW than you would otherwise need. The cheapest "generation" you can buy is the generation you won't have to buy if you upgrade your home to use less energy.

You need to replace that 70's vintage furnace before you spend a few grand on a hot tub, IMHO. You need to look at your building envelope and see where you can upgrade your insulation, eliminate drafts, etc.

There is no "magic bullet" where we install the flux capacitor and suddenly none of this other **** matters any more. Start with the basics first.

Phil

 

[Highbeam]

You need to replace that 70's vintage furnace before you spend a few grand on a hot tub, IMHO.

Phil

I agree with Phil except for this. A hot tub is an appliance, if you want one then get one that is as energy efficienct as you can afford. Independent of the hot tub, fix your furnace situation. We are a hot tub family and take the energy consumption hit required, it is a quality of life issue. You don't choose between a TV and more insulation do you? Expect about 300 KwH per month for the tub.

The closest thing we do to alternative energy is to heat our home 100% with wood heat.

 

[cderalow]

You could look into fuel cell technology particularly if you all ready have natural gas or propane coming to your house.

Doesn't take much to add an oxygen tank to the list and provide a decent amount of power.

 

[slopecarver]

You could look into fuel cell technology particularly if you all ready have natural gas or propane coming to your house.

Doesn't take much to add an oxygen tank to the list and provide a decent amount of power.

I wouldn't call that alternative, Alternative by nature is something that could exist off grid. Natural gas is a big NoNo and propane is nearly as bad.

I would look into the feed in tariffs provided by your electricity provider and the equipment required so that you could start small implementing an alternative energy setup without batteries. I personally would do all of it DIY starting with 1KW of solar (bare panels down to almost $1/W now) and a wind turbine or 2 totaling maybe 500W, installation of one 500W turbine would be dependent on location and type but I estimate it to be around $1500 with most of the cost being the tower and hookups. windblue has some converted permanent magnet alternators that can be used for wind turbines relatively cheaply. The grid tie electronics and power inverters would run maybe another $2000. This would likely reduce your energy bill by about a third but you could have fun doing it and be proud at the same time.

check out www.fieldlines.com and http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/ for forums dealing with small scale alternative energy installations.

 

[Teken]

If you're concerned about your energy bills, why don't you start out with a managable project rather than jumping to "take my house off grid".

Even if you were going to go off/grid, step 1 is make the house as energy efficient as possible so you don't have to pay for more KW than you would otherwise need. The cheapest "generation" you can buy is the generation you won't have to buy if you upgrade your home to use less energy.

You need to replace that 70's vintage furnace before you spend a few grand on a hot tub, IMHO. You need to look at your building envelope and see where you can upgrade your insulation, eliminate drafts, etc.

There is no "magic bullet" where we install the flux capacitor and suddenly none of this other **** matters any more. Start with the basics first.

Phil

^^ This man has it right . . . Invest in making the home as energy efficient as possible first. Next, take a honest look at your lifestyle and how you consume your energy.

For every person I have met that said to me they want to reduce their overall costs. Not one has ever come to me and said

*Hey man look how I reduced my consumption*

Lifestyle is not only key it is a huge factor in how your energy bills will be at the end of the month. Once that has been decided upon it is taking some simple and cheap tools to provide you with factual and imperial data as to what devices are consuming the most power and for how long the family uses said devices.

Consider replacing (in stages of course) old appliances, upgrading toilets to dual flush, and of course changing out all light fixtures to CFL / LED.

Use timers, sensors, computers to regulate devices for *just in time use*

One of the biggest things I have often found shocking and amazing are those individuals who never consider how they manage their window treatments. It goes with out saying during the summers you will ensure all windows that affect the temperature in the home to have the said drapes, blinds, shades, closed to ensure a cool and stable temperature.

In the dead of winter leave them all open to ensure all that free heat is allowed to penetrate the home. All the while using ceiling fans to regulate all that wasted hot air so it can be forced down so it can be used in the living spaces.

This, along with a set back thermostat will ensure your utility costs are kept down and reasonable. Having said all of this: Setting the TSTAT just one to two degrees lower while you sleep or away will directly impact your bills.

My heat in this arctic climate literally runs only 4 times a day, and the longest it has ever run has been 17 minutes! This is when the outside temperatures have dropped north of -36'C

People who have read my replies have often seen me state this over and over again. Insulate ALL THE INTERIOR WALLS & UNDER THE FLOOR JOISTS the small investment in doing this task will ensure the buildings envelope / zones will be secure and provide the home with long lasting ambient temperatures.

One of things on my bucket list is to build a solar heat wall . . . This project will offer me a opportunity to have a radiant heat source which will provide the home with more than 8 hours of natural heat with out any moving parts, electricity, or interaction.

Besides covering it up during the summer months to reduce the heat load in the home . . .

Teken . . .

 

[AndyL]

I'm not talking going off grid, just handling heating the 'out buildings' and that hot tub I know will be coming... we would cover a commercially installed solar water heater in 3-4 years; and I'm not about to pay someone to dig a trench... I like to play with skidsteers too even have a piece of paper saying I know how.

We get good wind here, our utility pays daily spot rate for microgen - and being close to a rail line, I have free reign for wind power (noise rules pretty much go out the window - trains are louder ) not really planning pv - but might tie in the RV system - so its doing something other than burning up the charge controller and mostly just cuz I can...

Original thought was throw some wind just to cover the pump(s) but most of the wind gens will do the needs of the solar water heater - and make a dent in the hot tub pump's use.

House is 30 years old but the previous owners took advantage of the tax rebates over the past decade, its above R40 in the ceilings, new windows (triple pane argon), doors, one of them newfangled high efficiency furnace (Lennox g61). And all the appliances are less than 5yrs old...

 

[theoldwizard1]

The farther north you go, the less attractive solar is.

+1 ! You are way to far north !!

Wood pellets for heat, but only if you have a source nearby.

Buy cow or pigs and use the manure in a digester to make methane.

I have heard of people raising rabbits and keeping them in greenhouses so that their body heat will heat the plants.

 

[AndyL]

Might be less attractive, but still works - I get boiling water off a 35$ ebay solar water heater on my RV... Just means the panels have to be tilted more, and upsized a bit...

 

[theoldwizard1]

Might be less attractive, but still works - I get boiling water off a 35$ ebay solar water heater on my RV... Just means the panels have to be tilted more, and upsized a bit...

How many hours per year of sunshine do you get ?

How many do they get in TX or AZ ?

 

[AndyL]

Hrm
60 Austin, Texas 2644 115
Calgary, Alberta 2405 330

200hours less, but more sunny days

 

[6768rogues]

At its current state of technology, many alternative energy plans require changing your lifestyle. I don't want to live my life as controlled by my energy source. I insulate heavily and use energy wisely, but buy what it takes to live the life I want to live.