I've got my first layer of mud on and I see this is going to be a long process for me. Is it possible to instead put on some of the thick paintable wall paper that is used to put over paneling to give a drywall look? Seems like if it would work good it would be much easier than sanding and mudding. Comments and suggestions welcome!
Alternative to finishing Sheetrock?
- Thread starter ml504
- Start date
rockchucker
Well-known member
Hire a Taper to finish it. Watch him closely and see how he does it for your next project.
It is not rocket science but it sure does take some talent. Lots of practice.
Think about 3-4 very thin coats that are smoothed out after each pass while wet so there is really not much sanding to do except to knock the boogers off so they don't get stuck in the next coat. Use Lite Topping Compound after a good coat of Hot Mud (90 Minute) to stick the Tape on really well. This way sanding out your screw ups isn't so much work.
There are a plethora of resources on the intrawebs for a basic how to.
You could always just Caulk the Seams and then paint it but I would not recommend it. If you ever end up finishing it correctly it will be a pain in the *** to remove the Caulking.
It is not rocket science but it sure does take some talent. Lots of practice.
Think about 3-4 very thin coats that are smoothed out after each pass while wet so there is really not much sanding to do except to knock the boogers off so they don't get stuck in the next coat. Use Lite Topping Compound after a good coat of Hot Mud (90 Minute) to stick the Tape on really well. This way sanding out your screw ups isn't so much work.
There are a plethora of resources on the intrawebs for a basic how to.
You could always just Caulk the Seams and then paint it but I would not recommend it. If you ever end up finishing it correctly it will be a pain in the *** to remove the Caulking.
hdshinn
Well-known member
Any kind of wall paper or paint you put on drywall, it will telegraph every flaw beneath it. One thing I did once as an experiment is mix dry sacked taping mud with somewhat thinned water base paint. This I rolled on the wall like a thick texture about the consistency of warm butter. It was marginally successful since it takes a while to get the hang of just how much mud to apply and how much to roll it to get the effect you want.
You don't say how much drywall you have to finish but if it's anything of any amount I'd hire a pro to come in and knock it out. The good ones are good enough there's not much sanding thus a lot less fine **** all over everything. There are lots of small shops that are glad to get small jobs like even just a room.
You don't say how much drywall you have to finish but if it's anything of any amount I'd hire a pro to come in and knock it out. The good ones are good enough there's not much sanding thus a lot less fine **** all over everything. There are lots of small shops that are glad to get small jobs like even just a room.
JC23
Well-known member
Once you get up to speed with doing drywall, look up how to use a sponge to finish wet mud. It will cut yer time down.
rockchucker
Well-known member
100% on the Sponge.
Once you let it dry a quick wipe with a moist sponge will take the boogers off too.
Once you let it dry a quick wipe with a moist sponge will take the boogers off too.
Err,
I'm a self taught taper, been working on my house for 4 years, started with the off rooms for practice, then worked my way to living room, hall way, mud room etc. Then I spent some time with an actual taper to get some tips and pointers. Youtube is a great place to start, you can watch the various techniques, and how others complete their joints...
Start with a 6" trowel, put a 1/8" thick patch down your entire joint, put the paper over top and then retrace that joint pushing all the excess mud out. Do this over all your joints (tapered edges first) then do your **** joints, then do the corners. Allow this all to dry. Next day do your tapered edges again, this time use a 14" knife (should have a very slight curve in the blade) go over your tapered edges with a nice consistent application of the mud, this should span past your tapered edges on each side about 3-4 inches - make sure there are no air bubbles in the mud or you will have to sand and apply more. If you get the mud smooth this will be your last coat for the tapered edges (no sanding at all). Make sure the curve on the knife is toward the wall
Now, start on your but joints (there are a couple of ways to do these). After you have let the mud dry under the tape, apply another coat of mud (1/8" or so) a face coat (or something) to the tape with 6" -10" knife - the goal of this is to hide the tape in a nice smooth application without air bubbles or fish eyes (air holes). Once this has dried then you will take a 14" knife again and feather these edges, run a path of mud that meets up with approximately the middle of the "face coat" this will the apply new mud approximately 8" past the face coat and will feather the edge. If you have applied the mud smoothly then you should not need to sand much at all.
The other way to do the **** joints is with a 14" knife run an application of mud up the middle of the **** joint (after the mud under the paper has dried), then apply mud to both sides of that 14" mud path - this is more difficult as you then are required to blend the different knife strokes - I find if I do it this way I have to sand more. I use the first method, takes longer, but less sanding.
Corner joints:
Run your 1/8" this path of mud on either side of the corner - take your paper tape and crease it in the middle (folding it in half). Apply your tape like mentioned above, and work the excess mud out of the tape, leaving the corner nice and true. Let the tape/mud dry.
Follow this up with 6" knife, leaving 1/8" thick path of mud first on one side, then on the other (letting the mud dry between passes) - this is an easier method, I now use a special tool (can't think of the name that applies mud evenly to both sides of the inside corner as you push down the suction rod (previously used to **** mud into the tool). You can also buy inside and outside corner bead (but I find this stuff to be a pain, usually end up with air bubbles and a lot of extra work. If your drywall is clean you will not need this corner bead). Anyway, do one side at a time and this way you will end up with nice clean corners.
Unless you have big "boogers" as a previous poster has mentioned you SHOULD NOT NEED TO SAND, simply re mud over the inconsistencies. The other thing of note is GET THE MUD ON THERE. A lot of new mudders put the mud on then take it off again. requiring a BIZZILLION coats. You should really only need 3-4 at absolute max. Sometimes it takes more, and that's okay.
Mudding is not rocket science, but it is tricky to master the flow of mud/pressure on the knife, and how much to apply. It takes a lot of practice to get good at, and very difficult to learn just on your own. I liked the advice of hiring someone and paying good attention to them, or you could broach the possibility of helping for a smaller fee (although most would want to charge more for "help" from a newbie). If it isn't something you want to learn, and you have the money to outsource it, I would definitely say it is not worth the headache - plus, speaking from experience, at the end of the job ALL YOU WILL SEE IS YOUR FLAWS - and the first job, there will be many.
unless money is really tight, don't cover it up with wallpaper and fudge it...do it right the first time and you wont have to go back to a half assed attempt at making something nice.
The other important bit of info (in my opinion) is avoid the fiber tape like the plague. That stuff is nothing but hassle, it will usually crack in time (if not right away) and often newbies don't apply/sand enough of the mud and the squares come through. I had to redo everything I did originally with the fiber tape again with paper tape. 80 percent of my joints cracked within 1 year. Good practice, but I hated it.
I rambled a lot, but I hope this helps.
I'm a self taught taper, been working on my house for 4 years, started with the off rooms for practice, then worked my way to living room, hall way, mud room etc. Then I spent some time with an actual taper to get some tips and pointers. Youtube is a great place to start, you can watch the various techniques, and how others complete their joints...
Start with a 6" trowel, put a 1/8" thick patch down your entire joint, put the paper over top and then retrace that joint pushing all the excess mud out. Do this over all your joints (tapered edges first) then do your **** joints, then do the corners. Allow this all to dry. Next day do your tapered edges again, this time use a 14" knife (should have a very slight curve in the blade) go over your tapered edges with a nice consistent application of the mud, this should span past your tapered edges on each side about 3-4 inches - make sure there are no air bubbles in the mud or you will have to sand and apply more. If you get the mud smooth this will be your last coat for the tapered edges (no sanding at all). Make sure the curve on the knife is toward the wall
Now, start on your but joints (there are a couple of ways to do these). After you have let the mud dry under the tape, apply another coat of mud (1/8" or so) a face coat (or something) to the tape with 6" -10" knife - the goal of this is to hide the tape in a nice smooth application without air bubbles or fish eyes (air holes). Once this has dried then you will take a 14" knife again and feather these edges, run a path of mud that meets up with approximately the middle of the "face coat" this will the apply new mud approximately 8" past the face coat and will feather the edge. If you have applied the mud smoothly then you should not need to sand much at all.
The other way to do the **** joints is with a 14" knife run an application of mud up the middle of the **** joint (after the mud under the paper has dried), then apply mud to both sides of that 14" mud path - this is more difficult as you then are required to blend the different knife strokes - I find if I do it this way I have to sand more. I use the first method, takes longer, but less sanding.
Corner joints:
Run your 1/8" this path of mud on either side of the corner - take your paper tape and crease it in the middle (folding it in half). Apply your tape like mentioned above, and work the excess mud out of the tape, leaving the corner nice and true. Let the tape/mud dry.
Follow this up with 6" knife, leaving 1/8" thick path of mud first on one side, then on the other (letting the mud dry between passes) - this is an easier method, I now use a special tool (can't think of the name that applies mud evenly to both sides of the inside corner as you push down the suction rod (previously used to **** mud into the tool). You can also buy inside and outside corner bead (but I find this stuff to be a pain, usually end up with air bubbles and a lot of extra work. If your drywall is clean you will not need this corner bead). Anyway, do one side at a time and this way you will end up with nice clean corners.
Unless you have big "boogers" as a previous poster has mentioned you SHOULD NOT NEED TO SAND, simply re mud over the inconsistencies. The other thing of note is GET THE MUD ON THERE. A lot of new mudders put the mud on then take it off again. requiring a BIZZILLION coats. You should really only need 3-4 at absolute max. Sometimes it takes more, and that's okay.
Mudding is not rocket science, but it is tricky to master the flow of mud/pressure on the knife, and how much to apply. It takes a lot of practice to get good at, and very difficult to learn just on your own. I liked the advice of hiring someone and paying good attention to them, or you could broach the possibility of helping for a smaller fee (although most would want to charge more for "help" from a newbie). If it isn't something you want to learn, and you have the money to outsource it, I would definitely say it is not worth the headache - plus, speaking from experience, at the end of the job ALL YOU WILL SEE IS YOUR FLAWS - and the first job, there will be many.
unless money is really tight, don't cover it up with wallpaper and fudge it...do it right the first time and you wont have to go back to a half assed attempt at making something nice.
The other important bit of info (in my opinion) is avoid the fiber tape like the plague. That stuff is nothing but hassle, it will usually crack in time (if not right away) and often newbies don't apply/sand enough of the mud and the squares come through. I had to redo everything I did originally with the fiber tape again with paper tape. 80 percent of my joints cracked within 1 year. Good practice, but I hated it.
I rambled a lot, but I hope this helps.
rockchucker
Well-known member
Holy storybook and GREAT information! ^
Agreed on the Fiber Tape. Total and complete worthless waste of time.
I do like to use a corner Trowel in the corners though. You can do it with a 6" Knife but results will be better for a beginner with a Corner Trowel.
Agreed on the Fiber Tape. Total and complete worthless waste of time.
I do like to use a corner Trowel in the corners though. You can do it with a 6" Knife but results will be better for a beginner with a Corner Trowel.
rlitman
Well-known member
I like the fiber tape, but NOT for new sheetrock installs. New rock installs get paper, and the plain "green" pre-mixed mud. This gives the finest finish when you don't need to build up much more than the thickness of the paper tape itself.
The fiber tape is great for plaster repairs, and other things, where I will often use 90 minute plaster that you mix yourself, and sometimes build up to 1/4".
There's lots well written on the subject (some really good stuff above, especially about not needing to sand). I will often scrape it with the knife after it's dried to get a better level.
I personally like outside corner bead. It IS more work, but stands up better to abuse than plaster corners. I never use corner bead on inside corners. That just takes some practice.
They do make special wallpaper for hiding wall imperfections. It's almost as thick as tar paper. You still need to tape a mud the walls first, and you then need to apply a primer paint for the paper glue to adhere properly.
The fiber tape is great for plaster repairs, and other things, where I will often use 90 minute plaster that you mix yourself, and sometimes build up to 1/4".
There's lots well written on the subject (some really good stuff above, especially about not needing to sand). I will often scrape it with the knife after it's dried to get a better level.
I personally like outside corner bead. It IS more work, but stands up better to abuse than plaster corners. I never use corner bead on inside corners. That just takes some practice.
They do make special wallpaper for hiding wall imperfections. It's almost as thick as tar paper. You still need to tape a mud the walls first, and you then need to apply a primer paint for the paper glue to adhere properly.
csp
Well-known member
Lots of good info with pictures and video at www.drywallschool.com
cruzn57
Banned
I use a hopper gun and spray EVERYTHING,
it covers all my sloppy errors, and can be worked if you want special
textures, (low knock down, troweled, etc)
best part is I can spray whole room in few minutes, and work it in few minutes more.
on big screw ups, I've shot 2nd and 3rd coats to mask my errors!
it covers all my sloppy errors, and can be worked if you want special
textures, (low knock down, troweled, etc)
best part is I can spray whole room in few minutes, and work it in few minutes more.
on big screw ups, I've shot 2nd and 3rd coats to mask my errors!
richtersrodz
Well-known member
I bought a book at HD on doing my own sheetrock.. The book says do it in three coats..
YEAH RIGHT!!??? I usually average about 8-10 passes.. But I'm a perfectionist. My first room
was my worst, but I'm also my worst critic. I was pretty good at it after a while. I wound
up gutting my whole house, and re-rocking the whole thing. It does take some practice,
but it also depends on how heavy you want to texture. Heavy texture can hide flaws.
I was going for almost smooth walls (1930 house) and it makes it more difficult.
YEAH RIGHT!!??? I usually average about 8-10 passes.. But I'm a perfectionist. My first room
was my worst, but I'm also my worst critic. I was pretty good at it after a while. I wound
up gutting my whole house, and re-rocking the whole thing. It does take some practice,
but it also depends on how heavy you want to texture. Heavy texture can hide flaws.
I was going for almost smooth walls (1930 house) and it makes it more difficult.
Stargeezer
Well-known member
Had some real pros do my garage. They taped it and required no sanding. Then Skip-Troweled the entire garage. Fantastic crew. Did a 1200 Sq. Ft garage with one interior divider wall in one day. A 4 man-crew with stilts, mud poles and finesse. I liked these guys so much I had them come back and skip trowel some rooms in the house too.
richtersrodz
Well-known member
I've seen guys do this at my work... I walked in the next day, and was like.. "Where's all
of the dust?" I knew they weren't using HD wall joint compound, because of the smell. It
smelled like pickles. I think they were also using a fast 10 minute type dry compound. Not
the stuff that takes hours to dry, and then cracks if it was too thick.
My wife got tired of the days and days of sanding, and tons and tons of dust. It ate
up a box fan motor too, that I was using for exhausting the dust.
of the dust?" I knew they weren't using HD wall joint compound, because of the smell. It
smelled like pickles. I think they were also using a fast 10 minute type dry compound. Not
the stuff that takes hours to dry, and then cracks if it was too thick.
My wife got tired of the days and days of sanding, and tons and tons of dust. It ate
up a box fan motor too, that I was using for exhausting the dust.
Thanks for all the responses....it sounds like I put too thick of a coat on in the corners as I went out in the shop this morning and they were cracked down the center. Is this a complete sand off and re-do? I guess I will scrap the wallpaper idea and try to finish it correctly. Thanks again...
richtersrodz
Well-known member
You don't have to go all the way to paper on the sanding .. (crack) Just make sure it
is dry, sand it down a bit, and re-skim it. I'm not a pro, and did several re-skims, and
re-sandings.. The trick is to hide the hump, not really make it go away. And on corners,
I learned to do just one side at a time. It takes tons of practice to be able to float out
both walls in the corner at the same. I usually do one side, let it dry, then do the other.
Then sand..
My issue was I was doing it like body work on a car. Where the panel has to be flat. A
wall is not like that. After you do your own, you will find that you will always be able
to see the "hump" in walls. Even on professional jobs, I walk in, and can look at the wall
and see the hump. My wife never sees it, but it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.
The trick is having the hump.. but not making it stand out.
is dry, sand it down a bit, and re-skim it. I'm not a pro, and did several re-skims, and
re-sandings.. The trick is to hide the hump, not really make it go away. And on corners,
I learned to do just one side at a time. It takes tons of practice to be able to float out
both walls in the corner at the same. I usually do one side, let it dry, then do the other.
Then sand..
My issue was I was doing it like body work on a car. Where the panel has to be flat. A
wall is not like that. After you do your own, you will find that you will always be able
to see the "hump" in walls. Even on professional jobs, I walk in, and can look at the wall
and see the hump.
My wife never sees it, but it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.The trick is having the hump.. but not making it stand out.
Last edited:
powerplant
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Messages
- 25
In my neck of the woods... if you hang the rock and hire out the mud / taping it won't break your wallet... in fact I would say it is one of the more economical services out there. Lots of good advice here but I think you owe it to yourself to at least get a couple quotes, the cost may supprise you.