Alternatives to pinch welds for jacking?

[mokofoko]

Hello! New here, and I do a lot of basic car maintenance for the family.

I've got a 2006 Chevy Malibu LS 2.2L I'm working on currently. I just replaced one front caliper and the front rotors/pads. I started to do a full brake flush/bleed, and realized that both rear jack points are rusted to heck and crumbled like dry tofu. I took a few photos of the underside, and would be grateful if I could get some suggestions about proper jack points. I'm heading to harbor freight to pickup a 3ton Daytona floor jack in the morning, as I've only got the OEM scissor jack at the moment.

https://imgur.com/nLEqDwS

https://imgur.com/urYPqRu

Could I put a piece of thick board on that mostly rust-free section in front of the missing pinchweld? Or would the safest point be somewhere on the rusty subframe in photo2? I can fit a block and jack where the subframe and arm meets, but I'm afraid that I'll be putting pressure on the bolt where the arm meets. Is that a reinforced frame rail that runs along the spare tire bay (left-most arrow)? Guessing it's not safe to setup the jack there.

I have an appointment for tire installation tomorrow evening, so I'm short on time. Willing to take any suggestions, and happy to buy whatever supplies might be suggested to safely get this done. I'm not looking to get under the vehicle--I just want to get the wheel off for rotors/pads/bleeding.

Thanks

 

[jack stand]

I think your board idea would work with your time constraints. Just watch everything as you jack. If there's any movement I'd think twice about spending money on new tires as any collision protection has rusted away.

 

[Dabeesknees]

Board. No issues I like to curl up my pinch points.... I would buy used 7/32 setof tires off internetIf you've got a lo

 

[mokofoko]

Thanks for responding. So it seems like there's one vote for lifting as I've shown it in photo#2, and another for lifting in the pinchweld area. Would the idea be to put the board in the section I've marked here, or put it right over the pinchweld stretch and completely crush it?

https://imgur.com/NBsKuBr

If I go with jacking from the subframe, is it safe to do so from that lowest spot where the arm is joined? I'm just wondering if I'm running the risk of damaging that arm or snapping that pivot bolt.

 

[ycgoat]

I tend to put the jack with a board under the frame rail then the jack stand with a board under the lower control arm to frame mount

 

[PoorUB]

My dad had a '07 Impala that was getting rusty. I would jack it on one of the suspension mounts with no issues. Anything the suspension is mounted to is generally pretty strong.

I would not jack on any of the sheet metal body.

 

[mokofoko]

I tend to put the jack with a board under the frame rail then the jack stand with a board under the lower control arm to frame mount

So, mostly as I've already shown in the second photo, with a second jack point at the framerail? I'm not sure my vehicle has a reinforced framerail--the closest I could spot were the two rails running on either side of the sparetire bay (the left-most arrow marked), which doesn't seem too robust.

In any case, I definitely need to decide on a spot for future reference, if only for getting tires changed on the side of a road

 

[pbon]

I use subframes and suspension mounting points when factory jack points don’t work. Blocks of wood are great jack adapters.

 

[PoorUB]

There is no "frame rail"! Just sheet metal. The only reason pinch welds were strong enough is there was 3-4 body panels coming together.
If you put a block along side the rusted out pinch weldd you might tear open the pich weld! There is not much strength left with the rust eating away at it.

 

[mokofoko]

My dad had a '07 Impala that was getting rusty. I would jack it on one of the suspension mounts with no issues. Anything the suspension is mounted to is generally pretty strong.

I would not jack on any of the sheet metal body.

I'm guessing this is my control arm:

https://imgur.com/ckk1x2E

So it's safe enough to jack anywhere along that bar, despite the rather smallish bolt holding it to the subframe? I read somewhere that I might be risking alignment issues by jacking on the control arms.

 

[tipsy]

If you jack on the control arm you will mostly lift the control arm, compressing the spring. You need to jack somewhere that is solid rather than spring loaded.

 

[PoorUB]

I'm guessing this is my control arm:

https://imgur.com/ckk1x2E

So it's safe enough to jack anywhere along that bar, despite the rather smallish bolt holding it to the subframe? I read somewhere that I might be risking alignment issues by jacking on the control arms.

I would place the jack where the control arm goes to the subframe, or right under the spring.
I doubt you will screw up the alignment by lifting on the arm. Heck it holds the vehicle on the ground, plus it jacking on it was and issue you would need an alignment every time you hit a pothole.

 

[PoorUB]

If you jack on the control arm you will mostly lift the control arm, compressing the spring. You need to jack somewhere that is solid rather than spring loaded.

Sure the spring might compress slightly, then that corner of the vehicle is going up.

 

[mokofoko]

If you jack on the control arm you will mostly lift the control arm, compressing the spring. You need to jack somewhere that is solid rather than spring loaded.

I would place the jack where the control arm goes to the subframe, or right under the spring.
I doubt you will screw up the alignment by lifting on the arm. Heck it holds the vehicle on the ground, plus it jacking on it was and issue you would need an alignment every time you hit a pothole.

Overwhelmed by all of the useful information I've received in such a short time. It seems like the pinch weld area and the control arm itself are out of the question, so I should aim to jack from the subframe with board as I originally had it setup in photo#2 of the original posting. Failing that, I'm guessing I should use some block spacers to try and lift from that high point with the m14 bolt showing?

 

[ZRX61]

Middle of the rear cross-member to get both sides in the air & then figure out somewhere solid to put the jackstands.. maybe the outboard ends of the cross-member..

 

[Renegade1LI]

I agree don't jack on the sheet metal or control arm, go to a solid point, had a friend bend the control arm jacking it.

 

[KenC]

I always use a piece of 4x4 oak with a groove routed into it that goes over the pinch weld. As long as possible. even on solid cars with minimal to no rust. should work for you.

 

[wssix99]

The Automotive Lift Institute (ALI) publishes a lifting guide for this sort of thing. The 2006 Malibu (GM-30) needs to be lifted by the side rails where the pinch welds are. The specific instructions are:

"Frame contact hoist pads must not contact fenders, floor pan, or rocker panels. Position front hoist pads under front frame rail shipping slot reinforcement with long side of pad parallel to frame rails. Position rear hoist pads under rear frame shipping slot reinforcement with long side parallel to frame rails. Outer edge of rear hoist pad must be aligned with outer edge of frame rail shipping slot reinforcement outer edge."

I'd have to see more pictures, but would expect the reinforcements you need to lift on are around those pinch weld points. You can get pucks that wrap around the pinch welds and contact those reinforcements. Some people make them out of hockey pucks and considering the state of your welds, that's probably the way you should go: https://i.redd.it/n8qcffb6uw351.jpg

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

If you jack on the control arm you will mostly lift the control arm, compressing the spring. You need to jack somewhere that is solid rather than spring loaded.

Isn't the spring already compressed and carrying the weight of the car? If jacking it up compresses it much more I'm guessing he needs a taller garage.

 

[Bert_]

I always jack the front of my car from the front cross member and and I now have to jack from the rear system mounting points as the rust has gotten worse. '96 olds 88. My pinch welds no longer exist...

 

[nadogail]

My Volvo is an '05, a year older than the Op's car should I be afraid to jack it up?

 

[joel_400]

I would say to use a floor jack with a larger pad an go to something solid like a cross member. And make sure you block it up or use jack stands especially if you're going to work underneath it on the floor. I don't trust any jack to hold a vehicle while I'm underneath. Haven't had a problem all the years I've been working on cars but I dont way to either. Getting crushed isn't worth it to me. If it's too rusty to support safely is it really even safe to go down the road!?
Joel

 

[whateg01]

The only reason not to jack on a control arm is, as you Jack the vehicle up, the leverage on the control arm is lower than the tire has, so depending where on the control arm you are jacking, the angle can change and it can want to slide off the jack.

 

[MikeC55]

The attachment point of lower control are to subframe should be fine. If that area isn't solid, you have a lot more to worry about... But jackstands or spare wheel/tire, under the side is a must for safety. I use auto ramps for this purpose.

 

[wssix99]

https://imgur.com/urYPqRu

I forgot to mention. This is a bad place to lift. I've bent the flanges that the control arm is bolted to doing this. (On a GM car of a similar design.) They can't take the load in this configuration.

 

[ycgoat]

So, mostly as I've already shown in the second photo, with a second jack point at the framerail? I'm not sure my vehicle has a reinforced framerail--the closest I could spot were the two rails running on either side of the sparetire bay (the left-most arrow marked), which doesn't seem too robust.

In any case, I definitely need to decide on a spot for future reference, if only for getting tires changed on the side of a road

Hopefully the pic comes through, if so I marked in Blue where I typically jack our 2009 Malibu up at using 2x4 lumber pieces to spread the load.

 

[ycgoat]

from the above picture, I will use my floor jack to lift on the body then put the jack stand under the lower control arm to body mounting point.

edit; just as wssix99 pictured only with different tools

 

[CraigStu]

The only reason not to jack on a control arm is, as you Jack the vehicle up, the leverage on the control arm is lower than the tire has, so depending where on the control arm you are jacking, the angle can change and it can want to slide off the jack.

Bingo this is 100% correct. The area of the control arm right under the coil spring may offer a spot for your jack to kind of nestle into so it can' slide when the angle changes. I would use that in a heartbeat. I would also try the subframe where the control arm bolts on but also be careful of the control arm hanging down as the frame goes up and knocking the ******** of the subframe ears. I would try the frame near the spare tire well w/ as long a 2x4 as will fit to spread out the load. Wissx99's quote even mentions that area.
"Position front hoist pads under front frame rail shipping slot reinforcement with long side of pad parallel to frame rails. Position rear hoist pads under rear frame shipping slot reinforcement with long side parallel to frame rails. Outer edge of rear hoist pad must be aligned with outer edge of frame rail shipping slot reinforcement outer edge."
See the rounded rectangular hole there just to the right of the left most arrow in your picture #400? That is the 'shipping slot reinforcement'. They stick a bar w/ a 'T' on the end in that slot, twist it 90 degrees, and hook their tiedown chain to it. So it is pretty strong. You are going to have to be the final OK on where you jack. Since we know the car has a bunch of rust, lay on the floor next to the jack (not under the car, just looking closely under the car) and raise it slowly. Figure a way to reference whatever metal you are lifting at to something else nearby so you can see if your lift point flexes.

 

[firebirdparts]

I'm guessing this is my control arm:

So it's safe enough to jack anywhere along that bar, despite the rather smallish bolt holding it to the subframe? I read somewhere that I might be risking alignment issues by jacking on the control arms.

The closer you get to under that spring the less stress there will be. It might me possible to squash the arm itself, but I doubt it. Just look at it.

 

[MadMechMaster]

Also, please use jack stands. I don't see them mentioned.

I know that adds to your placement problem. But your family will appreciate it.

 

[ZRX61]

In related news: The Explorer ST in the garage has "No Jack Point" (or something like that) actually cast into the aluminum lower control arms.

 

[ZRX61]

Also, please use jack stands. I don't see them mentioned.

I know that adds to your placement problem. But your family will appreciate it.

and safety glasses fall the rust that falls off.

 

[PassnThru]

In related news: The Explorer ST in the garage has "No Jack Point" (or something like that) actually cast into the aluminum lower control arms.

 

[Two Speed]

Isn't the spring already compressed and carrying the weight of the car? If jacking it up compresses it much more I'm guessing he needs a taller garage.

depends on the car suspension design, some you end up just compressing the wheel deeper into the wheel well until some magic point comes along and the car starts lifting. The watts link rear in a crown vic (solid axle mind you) that is exactly what happens, you keep jacking and the car does not lift, the wheel just goes deeper into the wheel well. Pre-watts link crown vic's, jack in the same location not an issue, the corner lifts. If you want to lift a corner of the watts link style you set the jack under the frame rail near the suspension point.

 

[mokofoko]

Checking in so people know I wasn't crushed to death. I have at least read all of the comments and am appreciative.

After inspecting the underside more carefully (especially from the front), I found an unobstructed jack point at the subframe that was actually easy to access with the scissor jack.

https://imgur.com/3ji52T2

Just took my m12 stubby with a short extension. Had no problems jacking both sides with jack stands placed at the control arm joint as shown in an earlier photo.

Having the wheels off opened another can of worms. The bleeder screw snapped off on one, and I decided to just buy two new rear calipers. Of course the rotors and pads were shot as well, with replacements on order. Did a full brake flush and bleed at every caliper. More work to come. Here's hoping there's never a need to change those rear tires on the side of the road, thanks to those disintegrated pinch welds.

 

[mokofoko]

Bingo this is 100% correct. The area of the control arm right under the coil spring may offer a spot for your jack to kind of nestle into so it can' slide when the angle changes. I would use that in a heartbeat. I would also try the subframe where the control arm bolts on but also be careful of the control arm hanging down as the frame goes up and knocking the ******** of the subframe ears. I would try the frame near the spare tire well w/ as long a 2x4 as will fit to spread out the load. Wissx99's quote even mentions that area.
"Position front hoist pads under front frame rail shipping slot reinforcement with long side of pad parallel to frame rails. Position rear hoist pads under rear frame shipping slot reinforcement with long side parallel to frame rails. Outer edge of rear hoist pad must be aligned with outer edge of frame rail shipping slot reinforcement outer edge."
See the rounded rectangular hole there just to the right of the left most arrow in your picture #400? That is the 'shipping slot reinforcement'. They stick a bar w/ a 'T' on the end in that slot, twist it 90 degrees, and hook their tiedown chain to it. So it is pretty strong. You are going to have to be the final OK on where you jack. Since we know the car has a bunch of rust, lay on the floor next to the jack (not under the car, just looking closely under the car) and raise it slowly. Figure a way to reference whatever metal you are lifting at to something else nearby so you can see if your lift point flexes.

The attachment from ycgoat also mentions that location as a jack point, and I will remember that for future reference. It's rather high up there, so I'll see if my new hydraulic jack can make that work. It would be nice to have an additional jack point so I can place an additional jack stand.


Some conflicting comments in the thread with regards to jacking on the control arm--I believe I will avoid that area in the future, just to be safe. I was worried about the flanged area of the subframe (connecting to the control arm) bending per another comment--will avoid it if I can, but there are so few areas that appear 100% safe to jack from or place stands.

 

[CraigStu]

Glad you asked the question and got it worked out. I have been working on cars either as a paid tech or on my own for ever. And even so I created a small problem on my wife's 2010 Mustang. I always jacked at the rear most point where the front subframe bolts to the body. About where the passenger's feet would sit.

I don't remember what clued me in to the problem but apparently that design was meant to keep the subframe from moving left/right or forward/back. Jacking it there for 4 years had raised that section of the floor maybe 3/8 inch. It was no fun figuring a way to drop the floor back to it's proper position.

 

[mokofoko]

Glad you asked the question and got it worked out. I have been working on cars either as a paid tech or on my own for ever. And even so I created a small problem on my wife's 2010 Mustang. I always jacked at the rear most point where the front subframe bolts to the body. About where the passenger's feet would sit.

I don't remember what clued me in to the problem but apparently that design was meant to keep the subframe from moving left/right or forward/back. Jacking it there for 4 years had raised that section of the floor maybe 3/8 inch. It was no fun figuring a way to drop the floor back to it's proper position.

Out of curiosity, how did you fix that issue? I think I'd have been tempted to place a small board over the flooring and hammer away at it.

I'm learning in this thread that there is no one answer to any question--so many little outliers. Now I have to remember to be careful trusting in the subframe as a jack point!

 

[CraigStu]

I pulled one of the bolts, got a longer one. Drilled a hole near the end of a 3ft piece of steel angle. I found a 2x6 about 2ft long and placed it under the rocker panel pinch weld. The end of the steel stuck out from under the car, the 2x6 was a fulcrum, and I jacked up the end of the steel. It was definitely a sketchy rig but I only needed to move the floor pan a little.

 

[superspec]

Every vehicle is different. I work on everything from cars, truck motor homes, motorcycles, slingshots…

Very few are the same. I hardly ever use a pinch weld. I’m always looking for front and rear center lift points or I’m going for a suspension point on each corner.