Aluminum TIG Welders

[bczygan]

This thread is to discuss them in general, new and old.

But more specifically, I am looking for an affordable one.

That typically means used and old.

One I've come across is a 330 A/B P. SN #HJ143121.

It has the TIG gun, foot pedal and long cables. Also comes on a cart, which is necessary, since it's over #800.

Can't see it run, but seller says they saw it run before buying. They have had it for 3 or 4 months and it's too big for their automotive facility. Plus they think it's 220 3PH and they don't have that.

Actually it's a 1PH machine that needs a 100A circuit. I don't mind that or the size.

It does not have a cooler. Or is that one above and behind it? Year of mfg. is 1978.

Asking price is $450 but I'll offer less.

I have all the usual questions about it's capability and usefulness. I intend to build an aluminum trailer using it.

Also don't know about scratch or HF start.

What say you all?

Bill

 

[dr_clyde]

That is a solid dependable welder. It is old, but still useable.

Yes, it is 1 phase and needs a 100 amp breaker.

There is a cooler in the picture.

I wouldn't use a trailer as my first project with aluminum however.

 

[dr_clyde]

And yes, it has HF, start and continuous.

 

[bczygan]

That is a solid dependable welder. It is old, but still useable.

Yes, it is 1 phase and needs a 100 amp breaker.

There is a cooler in the picture.

I wouldn't use a trailer as my first project with aluminum however.

Yeah, that won't be the first project by far.

Worth $400?

I see it has high frequency.

 

[bczygan]

So, what other options are there?

Any alternatives in other older machines?

Or upgrades to newer, slightly newer and more expensive machines?

Bill

 

[dr_clyde]

You're gonna have a hard time finding more welder for less money. It will be very difficult to unload or transport without a forklift or some rigging equipment of some sort.

 

[txvwnut]

AHP Alphatig 200 is another option. More expensive than the used Miller your looking at but one third the size and doesn’t require a 100 amp circuit.

The little AHP’s are well regarded on the forum and are a great welder for a little cash. I’ve been quite pleased with mine as it’s done everything I’ve asked of it.

 

[LXCam]

Bill what size service is on your house?

 

[dr_clyde]

It should be noted, 100 amp service is only required for about 200 amps or up of AC welding current.

You can pretty easily run that on a 50 amp breaker for most general welding.

A small inverter welder is far more suited to the home shop.

 

[LXCam]

It should also be pointed out that for a (old) transformer based welder input / output current is not directly proportional either. So even though he might only be running that unit at 50% of its rated output it could still be drawing 60-70% of its full load rating.

He's the deal Doc, Bills a great guy but he don't know **** about electrical. Maybe you didn't stick your head into his recent thread about magstarters. The last thing I want to see is he buy something that Max's out his service or worse yet exceeds it with nothing more then common loads on.

Bill do yourself a favor. You're not saving a dime buying something that massive. Spend a little more and get ones that is practical for your needs.

 

[BigNuge]

Another nod for the AHP AlphaTIG 200X. I researched the $hit out of TIG machines. The AHP is new, fully optioned, inverter based (uses a fraction of the power), great duty cycle, and has tons and tons of solid reviews. I’ve seen numerous “Blue & Red” users comment positively on the AHP.

It’s worth a wag for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bczygan]

AHP Alphatig 200 is another option. More expensive than the used Miller your looking at but one third the size and doesn’t require a 100 amp circuit.

The little AHP’s are well regarded on the forum and are a great welder for a little cash. I’ve been quite pleased with mine as it’s done everything I’ve asked of it.

Looked at that.

An eye opener for sure.

$720 shipped on Amazon!

https://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG-Stick-Welder-WARRANTY/dp/B076BSD6PG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1523756494&sr=8-2&keywords=ahp+alphatig+200x

I need to think long and hard.

Bill

 

[Sycan]

This thread is to discuss them in general, new and old.

But more specifically, I am looking for an affordable one.

That typically means used and old.

One I've come across is a 330 A/B P. SN #HJ143121.

It has the TIG gun, foot pedal and long cables. Also comes on a cart, which is necessary, since it's over #800.

Can't see it run, but seller says they saw it run before buying. They have had it for 3 or 4 months and it's too big for their automotive facility. Plus they think it's 220 3PH and they don't have that.



Actually it's a 1PH machine that needs a 100A circuit. I don't mind that or the size.

It does not have a cooler. Or is that one above and behind it? Year of mfg. is 1978.

Asking price is $450 but I'll offer less.

I have all the usual questions about it's capability and usefulness. I intend to build an aluminum trailer using it.

Also don't know about scratch or HF start.

What say you all?

Bill

I bought that exact machine to tig aluminum. It's huge, and it's power hungry. I never could get it to work with aluminum, would just melt ****, but I also had never used a tig. There was something about some contact points that I was going to go back and check, but never did.

 

[bczygan]

I bought that exact machine to tig aluminum. It's huge, and it's power hungry. I never could get it to work with aluminum, would just melt ****, but I also had never used a tig. There was something about some contact points that I was going to go back and check, but never did.

I think you set an 8 or 10 thousandths spark gap.

What did you do with it?

Bill

 

[NitroShark]

I used that Miller 330/a/b/p for over 20 years in my DIY shop. everything from Cro2 thin wall molly to Aluminum. I used a water cooled TIG torch. Real work horse.

it's a great old school welder.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I think you set an 8 or 10 thousandths spark gap.

What did you do with it?

Bill

.008 min .014 max .010 perfect. If eroded, new points are cheap from Miller.

It likes to see its HF to jump better. It uses the giant resistor foot pedals which always need a little TLC. 1950s technology in all its glory. It will outlive you.


I thought you were buying the Dial arc HF?

 

[Lelandwelds]

Looked at that.

An eye opener for sure.

$720 shipped on Amazon!

https://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG-Stick-Welder-WARRANTY/dp/B076BSD6PG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1523756494&sr=8-2&keywords=ahp+alphatig+200x

I need to think long and hard.

Bill

Well, that's about $1500 less than a comparable Miller. I don't care for pulsed TIG much but found variable frequency to be handy. I liked the wide shallow foghorn bead OK but the needle sharp deep penetrating bumble bee on steroids really did it for me.

If they work, . . . I would have to buy one and Big Blue is near and dear to my heart.

 

[American Locomotive]

It should be noted, 100 amp service is only required for about 200 amps or up of AC welding current.

You can pretty easily run that on a 50 amp breaker for most general welding.

A small inverter welder is far more suited to the home shop.

Welding thick pieces of aluminum to build a trailer is going to require a ton of output power. Aluminum just ***** the heat right out of the weld joint and requires ridiculous currents to keep things liquid.

 

[zkling]

While they are more than capable, I wouldn't go with any older technology than a square wave transformer machine if aluminum was the main goal. The machine posted is a sine wave machine. There are some that won't even tolerate a fixed frequency square wave machine these days. Try looking for a syncrowave (miller), tigwave (hobart), square/tig wave (lincoln).

It's a little painful to say, but for the hobbyist, the not so major brand inverter boxes for ~$1K are rather appealing.

 

[Ch3No2]

While they are more than capable, I wouldn't go with any older technology than a square wave transformer machine if aluminum was the main goal. The machine posted is a sine wave machine. There are some that won't even tolerate a fixed frequency square wave machine these days. Try looking for a syncrowave (miller), tigwave (hobart), square/tig wave (lincoln).

It's a little painful to say, but for the hobbyist, the not so major brand inverter boxes for ~$1K are rather appealing.

In the 70's my Dad bought me a Big Blue Dial-Arc machine for my 18th B-Day and it still produces a nice puddle buzz to this day on Aluminum.

 

[dr_clyde]

Welding thick pieces of aluminum to build a trailer is going to require a ton of output power. Aluminum just ***** the heat right out of the weld joint and requires ridiculous currents to keep things liquid.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with welding aluminum. It does exactly what you said.

I also mentioned in my post that he would be current limited at less than 100 amp service, which is likely what his whole house has for a service. Having used that exact welder on a 50 amp breaker, you get maybe 180-200 amps AC for a few inches of weld before it trips.

I wouldn't want to weld aluminum thick enough for a trailer with less than 250-280 amps or so. About the limit of 1/8" tungsten and a #20 water cooled torch. More than that and you need to step up to a much bigger torch and tungsten.

A TIG welder isn't the tool for a trailer, IMO. I would wire weld a trailer. Spray transfer with a spool gun is much quicker.

I squeak by welding aluminum with my Dynasty 200DX and some preheat when needed. I would prefer a 350 class machine for aluminum TIG work.

Bill, for basically scrap price, a 330 A/BP would be an ok machine to learn on, but not without its limitations. A modern inverter welder would be a better choice all around, but they can be expensive. My advice is to save up and spend the $1200 or whatever on the inverter.

If you don't want to do that, the Miller will weld for you, but you'll probably have all of $1200 into it by the time you get the power you need run, hauling, unloading, and outfitting it.

 

[dnschmidt]

If you're welding a trailer TIG really isn't the way to go. Spool gun MIG is. Primarily TIG is used for precision on thin material. Aluminum welding with TIG requires 150 AMPS and up. When used on aluminum an air cooled torch is going to get really hot when used with 1/4" aluminum. 1/8" aluminum isn't too bad but if you're going to do a lot of 1/4" aluminum welding you're going to need a spool gun and MIG.

 

[matt_i]

If all you are looking for is better corrosion resistance then I'd find a better paint. Granted there could be weight savings but why is that needed? Aluminum is more expensive to buy the basic material to start with which is one penalty. Then years of stainless wire brushing (its a joke but the prep is super important from what I've found and is more time-consuming than laying down any beads).

Steel is easy and forgiving to weld, aluminum is not.

If I were Bill I'd buy a the Alpha setup mentioned. Can't afford to be wrong and have it not work out....

 

[bczygan]

A lot of very good discussion here.

Keep it coming!

Bill

 

[BigNuge]

Just got mine in yesterday! It was pouring out (wind driven buckets of it) the entire afternoon, so I didn’t grab argon to test it out with, else I’d share a few pics of some test beads. I did power it up and unpack it though.

Good luck on your search!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bimmer1980]

My brother and I have a Miller 250 Syncrowave that we bought for about $1500 if I recall correctly. This was probably 17 years ago.....

We did weld up an aluminum trailer with it shortly after we got set up.... Candidly, I would not do that again.... The Tig torch was really too small and it was not water cooled. It took a long time.... The trailer did turn out well and we have used it a long time. No issues with the trailer or any of the welds. It was a single axle 3500 lb, with 6x12 bed, tilt. My brother still uses it in SD.

Depending on what your trailer needs are, a pre-built steel trailer is hard to beat for cost.... I bought a small 4x8 trailer to move from a big box store for about $400....11 years ago! I have used the snot out of it..... I recently did some modifications on it, but I don't regret buying the trailer originally.....

 

[StandupWI]

What about the Lincoln Square Wave 200? I would assume for a trailer it won't have enough power, but it is at an attractive price point.

 

[Real_PhillBert]

Just got mine in yesterday! It was pouring out (wind driven buckets of it) the entire afternoon, so I didn’t grab argon to test it out with, else I’d share a few pics of some test beads. I did power it up and unpack it though.

*SNIP*

Good luck on your search!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hun, I just looked up that welder, seems like a hell of a steal!

I have access to a Miller Dynasty 350 with a cooler at work and always kinda wanted to buy a smaller Dynasty like the 210DX for myself, but at that price point, I'm rethinking that!

EDIT:
The Dynasty 350 I convinced the boss we "needed".

 

[quartermeter]

Yes, I'm quite familiar with welding aluminum. It does exactly what you said.

I also mentioned in my post that he would be current limited at less than 100 amp service, which is likely what his whole house has for a service. Having used that exact welder on a 50 amp breaker, you get maybe 180-200 amps AC for a few inches of weld before it trips.

I wouldn't want to weld aluminum thick enough for a trailer with less than 250-280 amps or so. About the limit of 1/8" tungsten and a #20 water cooled torch. More than that and you need to step up to a much bigger torch and tungsten.

A TIG welder isn't the tool for a trailer, IMO. I would wire weld a trailer. Spray transfer with a spool gun is much quicker.

I squeak by welding aluminum with my Dynasty 200DX and some preheat when needed. I would prefer a 350 class machine for aluminum TIG work.

Bill, for basically scrap price, a 330 A/BP would be an ok machine to learn on, but not without its limitations. A modern inverter welder would be a better choice all around, but they can be expensive. My advice is to save up and spend the $1200 or whatever on the inverter.

If you don't want to do that, the Miller will weld for you, but you'll probably have all of $1200 into it by the time you get the power you need run, hauling, unloading, and outfitting it.

You’ve got some of your numbers wrong. you can weld with a 230 Welder using a 30 amp breaker. So using that you could we 3/8 aluminum or steel off of 30 amp breaker.

 

[Wamsutta]

That is a solid dependable welder. It is old, but still useable.

Yes, it is 1 phase and needs a 100 amp breaker.

There is a cooler in the picture.

I wouldn't use a trailer as my first project with aluminum however.

100 amp breaker?!!?

The cost to higher an electrician to install a new breaker box would cost more than a machine that can run on my 20 amp breaker.

 

[Firebrick43]

100 amp breaker?!!?

The cost to higher an electrician to install a new breaker box would cost more than a machine that can run on my 20 amp breaker.

Things were a lot cheaper 6 years ago when this zombie thread took place

 

[dnschmidt]

You’ve got some of your numbers wrong. you can weld with a 230 Welder using a 30 amp breaker. So using that you could we 3/8 aluminum or steel off of 30 amp breaker.

Not if it's a transformer welder as the one in question is. With an inverter maybe, with a transformer no way.

 

[quartermeter]

Not if it's a transformer welder as the one in question is. With an inverter maybe, with a transformer no way.

No look at your welder specs. Input and output. 30 amps input

Not if it's a transformer welder as the one in question is. With an inverter maybe, with a transformer no way.

here’s specs on a 211 millermatic transformer welder. It outputs 230 amps and 30 amps input.

 

[dr_clyde]

You’ve got some of your numbers wrong. you can weld with a 230 Welder using a 30 amp breaker. So using that you could we 3/8 aluminum or steel off of 30 amp breaker.

Respectfully, you're wrong.

AC constant current output requires a LOT more power than DC CV power for a small MIG machine, especially from a really old transformer machine. I've ran one of these welders and popped many 50 amp breakers trying to weld thicker aluminum.

Modern inverters are not the same and can be ran on much smaller inputs. I had a 600 amp capacity Invision that could be ran on a 30 amp 480V circuit. That old A/BP is a power hog.

You could run it at a greatly reduced output on a smaller breaker. You could probably get away with 150 amps of DC output, maybe more on a 30 amp breaker. But AC? No way.

 

[Jswain]

No look at your welder specs. Input and output. 30 amps input

here’s specs on a 211 millermatic transformer welder. It outputs 230 amps and 30 amps input.

I just tested this this summer. My miller 250 mig draws around 38 amps maxxed out.

My Lincoln precision Tig 225 draws like 125amps+. IIRC it was drawing just over 100amps when welding @~190amps AC alumimum

Not remotely close to the same. I've got it on a 50amp breaker now and it does what I need but would be better with 70a. I could weld back to back 4" beads with the machine maxed out on aluminum and I did 7-8 in a row without it tripping. But anything thicker then 1/4" if I have to sit there and wait for a puddle I'd imagine it will be tripped breaker city. 30amp was a **** show trying to weld aluminum, 40amp was better in garage but the breaker inside kept tripping. 50amp in both is so far alright

Not like it matters with this ancient thread, but so someone don't think they are gonna pick up an old transformer and weld much aluminum on a 30a breaker

 

[dr_clyde]

Just for comparison to a similar machine, this is the tag off my Syncrowave.



You can see the input power required to use full output on 230v is 130 amps.

I have it on 480v which helps a ton with amperage, but transformer machines take big power to use, especially on high amp AC tig output or a higher arc voltage process like large diameter stick welding.

In my old shop I only had 208v power, and I put a clamp meter on this machine running about 280 weld amps, and the machine was pulling between 110 and 120 amps. I put it on a 100 amp breaker because my shop only had a 150 amp main and I didn’t want to trip that if I could help it.

 

[Wamsutta]

Respectfully, you're wrong.

AC constant current output requires a LOT more power than DC CV power for a small MIG machine, especially from a really old transformer machine. I've ran one of these welders and popped many 50 amp breakers trying to weld thicker aluminum.

Modern inverters are not the same and can be ran on much smaller inputs. I had a 600 amp capacity Invision that could be ran on a 30 amp 480V circuit. That old A/BP is a power hog.

You could run it at a greatly reduced output on a smaller breaker. You could probably get away with 150 amps of DC output, maybe more on a 30 amp breaker. But AC? No way.

You see I didn't know that part. I thought "required input at rated output" was the same for both AC and DC output.

 

[MoonRise]

Big old transformer machines are power hogs compared to modern inverter machines.

That big (500+ pounds of it) old Syncrowave 350LX running on 230V input power will **** down 131 amps an output of 350 A and 34V at a 40% duty cycle. And is supposed to run on a 150A breaker. But it only uses 4A at idle.

That specific machine is the version without the Power-Factor correction add-ons. With the PF add-on, the same power output (350A and 34V at 40% duty cycle) will only draw 103A and is supposed to need a 125A breaker. The PF circuitry does mean that the machine is using 60A at idle though. Ouch.

That Syncrowave is running at 18 kW.

The Millermatic 211 https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/o265809b_mil.pdf is a 'small' wire-feed machine, only 42 lbs (machine only, not including the leads and gun/torch), and is running at 4 kW at 'rated' output of 150A at 21.5V at a 40% duty cycle. Nice machine for what it is, a wire-feed machine for 0.023-0.035 solid wire GMAW or 0.030-0.045 FCAW wire. It only needs a 30A breaker on a 240A circuit to run. Way different type and 'class' of machine than the 500+ lb Syncrowave SMAW/GTAW machine.

The original machine mentioned in the start of this thread was a Miller 330 A/BP. 830 pounds of beast just for the machine, and requiring a 175A fuse or breaker when running on 230V input. It draws a listed 96A at a rated output of 300A at 30V, but tops at at 400+ amps output (depending on mode being used, could be up to 460A in DC GTAW or AC SMAW modes ). https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/O340H_MIL.pdf

Lincoln Precision TIG 225 is a ~200 pound SMAW/GTAW machine with a 130-140A output at a 40% duty cycle (listed 55A input on 230V) , a 'rated' output of 180A at a 20% duty cycle, and tops out at 225A at a 10% duty cycle. https://assets.northerntool.com/products/993/documents/manuals/99363.pdf Again, a different 'class' of machine from a 'big' industrial type transformer beast of a machine or from a 'small' wire-feed machine.

 

[mark-NJ]

very old thread is very old.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

What happened to the original poster bill that guy was a trip?