Aluminum wire
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Your electrician must not have a license. He is no where close.
With Aluminum, you need #1
Charles
With Aluminum, you need #1
Charles
Pat
Member
I agree with Charles. Also I see where you want to run it to a new 100 amp panel. For certain you are going to want to meet the ampacity rating for the new panel. Just curious as to what equipment you may have running at the same time. I am sure he recommended aluminum because of the difference in price between that and copper, but there may be times when the # 6 aluminum would not be able to safely deliver a continuous draw you would be asking it to do. You may want to check out some ampacity charts, or find another qualified electrician.
nate379
Banned
I guess mine nor the power company don't know what they are doing either because I have #4 aluminum wire for my 125 amp service.
tfi racing
Well-known member
Electrician,huh?Time for your guy to find a new line of work...#2 is the minimum,larger for that distance definitely wouldn't hurt.
Unless thats the wire coming from the pole to your service mast, your electrician is clueless
Aceman
Well-known member
No. Like said above, this guy doesn't have a clue. Plain scary...
Why? I run 60 feeders to 125 amp subpanels all the time, just for the extra spaces.
If you're talking aerial wire, then yes. In a conduit, no.
RRmech
Well-known member
Unless you really need to save big $$$.....why go aluminum at all?
Steve
Steve
Gary S
Well-known member
I ran #2 copper to mine.
why not? the cost difference is huge
since your 'electrican' suggested #6al, i am concerned about the rest of what he is doing. Make sure 4 wires are run, not 3, that URD, USE, etc cable types that are for underground only arent run into a building, that the panel in the garage has neutral and ground seperated, that the garage has the required ground rod(s) if detached, that the garage panel has a main breaker or disconnect if detached, etc.
nate379
Banned
There are no hung wires in the newer areas around here because it's windy and trees/ice knock everything down.
The wires that comes from the power box by the street to the house and then the wire from the main panel to the breaker panel in the garage is all 4 gauge aluminum.
The wires that comes from the power box by the street to the house and then the wire from the main panel to the breaker panel in the garage is all 4 gauge aluminum.
Jaguar Fan
Well-known member
Are you also planning on running Cat5e to the shop?
nate379
Banned
The logics on using #4 doesn't make sense to me either, but that's what is there and I have to think that the electrician wouldn't come up with something that isn't to code and also get it passed by the electrical inspector.
I don't know if it's figured that a person won't be pulling more than x amount of amp and that's why it's ok, I don't know. The highest electrical load in the house would be my welder actually since the stove and clothes dryer are gas.
Home inspector I got was kinda a waste too.
Pulled the panel off and I was like.. hmm.. I didn't realize that you could use aluminum wire for the mains. He was like, aluminum, where do you see that?
I show him and he said that is something he never even noticed.
I asked if I could see his code book to look up if #4 could be used even and he didn't have a book.... yeah....
I have CAT 5 in the garage as well as cable though I don't think I will ever use it. I don't have a phone and the TV is in the living room.
I don't know if it's figured that a person won't be pulling more than x amount of amp and that's why it's ok, I don't know. The highest electrical load in the house would be my welder actually since the stove and clothes dryer are gas.
Home inspector I got was kinda a waste too.
Pulled the panel off and I was like.. hmm.. I didn't realize that you could use aluminum wire for the mains. He was like, aluminum, where do you see that?
I show him and he said that is something he never even noticed.
I asked if I could see his code book to look up if #4 could be used even and he didn't have a book.... yeah....I have CAT 5 in the garage as well as cable though I don't think I will ever use it. I don't have a phone and the TV is in the living room.
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are you putting it in pipe, or using a cable?
Hey fellows, ive been fololwing this thread with great intrest as i am doing exactly the same thing ,running 100' with aluminum wire. I also have a friend who is an electrician and he said i would be better off setting up for 200amp service while im putting it in even if i just used it as 100. he suggested 4/0 4/0 4/0 with 2/0 ground wire. i assume this is different from the #6 and #4 you all are discussing and i have plenty as far as wire size goes....thanks in advance for any reply
here's the NEC tables http://www.okonite.com/engineering/nec-ampacity-tables.html
it's a no brainer: at least #1 (Al)....#2 is smaller, the next size up is 1/0
in air #4 is good for 100A...
Vd for L=100' at 100A #1 Al is ~2%, not a problem...
did he run MULTIPLE #4's, ie, 2 per leg?
it's a no brainer: at least #1 (Al)....#2 is smaller, the next size up is 1/0
in air #4 is good for 100A...
Vd for L=100' at 100A #1 Al is ~2%, not a problem...
did he run MULTIPLE #4's, ie, 2 per leg?
4/0 (Al) is too small for 200A, it's only good for 180A
you need at least 250 MCM, which is preety unwieldy
I'm not sure what the grounding conductor should be but I'm guessing 6 for Cu, 4 for Al...i don't have the NEC at home...
100A iirc is #8 Cu/#6 Al
it's based on CB size
isnt 4 too small to be allowed to parallel?
what's allowed and what's done are 2 different things...
if the guy is advising #4 for 100A, who knows what he'll do?
as far as too small, I'm not sure...I guess it depends on what the feeder CB and panelboard MCB's lugs will accept...good question
just checked, you're right >=1/0 Al or Cu
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Aceman
Well-known member
That's fine, but I would suggest 4/0 4/0 2/0 "Sweetbriar" for your service. Since it's a service, there are only 3 wires, no ground.
240.4(B) says I can go up to the next overcurrent size(200 amp) provided the calculated load isn't over 180 amps. He said he really only needed a 100 amp panel, so we're definitely in the clear.
Yes, 1/0 is the minimum for paralleling phase or neutral conductors.310.4
Thanks Aceman and everyone for the replys. I do have a 200amp box im feeding to in the garage but i honestly dont need it ,my amp load will never go over what a 100 amp box would have done. the only reason i did was for possible future expansion which in all reality i still would not need a 200 amp but its nice to have too much room now instead of wishing for more later. i guess im the king of overkill . lol thanks again everyone.....
you cant run loose wires through your attic, so that will need to be a cable, or in conduit.
but for the $$ differential, and the fact you're using 200A lugs, why not full rate the system?
otherwise go with 100A or 150A
and doesn't a 'calculated' load have to be performed by an engineer (or under engineering supervision) ?
I'm a firm believer of matching ratings, especially if the $$$ is minimal
baugie
Well-known member
If a fire is caused due to faulty wiring, then the insurance company will not cover the damage. To save a few bucks now, could cost you thousands later........and besides aluminum wire requires annual maintenance....i.e. inspecting ALL connections and lubricating them with a special lubricant on order to prevent corrosion. Also, if aluminum wire is going to be used, it needs to be 2 sizes larger than the recommended copper wire size.
Aceman
Well-known member
There is absolutely no reason too.
Do you think an engineer is involved every time an electrician puts a service on a house? No. We have a codebook, we have demand/calculation tables, we are qualified to do a load calc.
Minimal is interpreted differently for everyone. I wouldn't do it myself, the only reason I'd bump to 250mcm is if the distance was great and I knew they'd be pulling a lot of load, in this instance, this is not the case.
To make a potentially long response much shorter, suffice to say, you don't have a clue.
nate379
Banned
In reponse to my deal witht the 4 guage wiring used in the house, is this a big No No?
I would like to have all the info I can and I will go to the builder with it. If this no joke a problem I have a warranty for a reason.
I would like to have all the info I can and I will go to the builder with it. If this no joke a problem I have a warranty for a reason.
using your logic since he only needs 100A, then why not use a full rated 100A panel & conductor, not a derated 200A...correct? or a full rated 150A
minimal is pretty easily defined: if it's only 2% of the total installation, and considering your buying a much larger panel and conductor than actually required by the load anyways, then why not 'splurge' to full rate the system since you're wasting $$$ on anyways? waste a bit more...
if $$$ was the concern, go 100A full rated...and since the wire is Al, cost is minimal...
the term 'engineering supervision' has legal meaning...
in PA most juristictions require that a service entrance or residential construction must be sealed and submitted to be code reviewed by the local authority...
if you are following the code, it's fine, if you are using an exception to the code, that requires calculations and derating, then that needs performed by an engineer, at least in these parts...the calculations are submitted for review...
ironman2424
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2009
- Messages
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if your going to run cat5 use seperate pipe. dont put it in with the wires to to 100amp service. 1 inch pvc is cheap, put the telephone, cable and/or cat5 in by itself. will likely cause interfearance otherwise. you can run it in the same trench but i wouldnt run it in the same pipe. just added thoughs that might be helpful........