Always disappointed when I pay for work.

[HELLSUNICORN]

As a rule I try to do everything myself. However, with my current work schedule being about 80 hours a week I find myself paying professionals to do some work for me. In the last year I have paid 4 professionals to do work for me. A new concrete driveway, a concrete shop pad, a new roof and and an epoxy shop floor.

The concrete driveway turned almost black and spalled within a month. It took a year to get him back and tear it out..

The concrete shop pad was not finished to my specs. He never power troweled it and did a horrible hand finish that was worse that the first time I ever finished concrete myself.

I paid a roofer to do a complete tear off. The roof leaked within 3 months.

And finally I paid a professional to epoxy my shop floor. The only reason I wanted to epoxy it was because of the bad trowel finish. Well of course the clear coat bubbled and the repair looks just about as bad. Now I have to get that sorted out.

Am I asking to much to get what I paid for? Its not like I am going with the cheapest estimates. I research the company and go look at stuff they have done. I am never happy when I pay someone to do my projects. ....Sorry rant over...

 

[xxaler]

Welcome to the world we live in. Once they have the money, they don't care.

 

[Shiftless]

With only a few exceptions, you are right on.

 

[Cyberbear]

It reads like you are having a run of bad karma when dealing with contractors. The scales need to be balanced, for a change. I imagine with your heavy work schedule there is no time for small claims court. Perhaps writing a contract with guarantees built in may help solve the problem, possibly withholding partial payment until a certain short period of time has elapsed. Complaint to the state contractors board may be in order, it shouldn't be only one way, you paying and they being unaccountable.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Where is the OP located? That totally ***** that everything turned out ******. In this part of the world we still have some local contractors and builders such as myself that give a **** and are proud of their work. I have a 9 year old driveway, no spalling and very few cracks (less then 5). New impact resistant concrete tile roof (had a hail storm destroy my 40 year composition shingle roof last year) no leaks and passed inspection on first attempt, and my epoxy garage floor is 7 years old with minimal wear.

My biggest problem is with framers and drywall crews who want to slam it and get onto the next house.

 

[ND80]

Word of Mouth.

Best and only advertising you should listen too.

You cant go off pictures they post. That would be great though a contractor posting jobs they fucked up.....


Get recommendations from people you trust and then dont balk to much at price.. Within reason...

 

[HMCFab9]

I feel the same way.
When I do any type of automotive work / restoration projects for anyone, (or myself) I always try to do the best job I possibly can, even to the point of eating some of the hours so I can put out the best finished product I can.

BUT.. It seems like if I have to pay someone else to do things I can't do....... the results are most often half assed & just barely good enough that they think they should get paid for it (often at an inflated cost)
IDK what to do about it, but a guy can't do everything himself...

 

[straps57]

Where are you finding these people? I almost always use someone that is recommended from a friend and rarely have a problem.

 

[JoeFin]

I work the same kind of hours and have to wait for time off to do my projects.

I use a lot of Homedepot labor for the heavy lifting and even then have to watch them like a hawk

 

[CudaChick1968]

I hope you need something powder coated some day. I'd love to be the one to change your opinion.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

I feel your pain.. I've gone the cheap route.. won't do that again. I now rely on reference and rating services like Angie's List.. I've lucked out that worked for a new roof a few years back. I also lucked out by using the same HVAC service that installed our home's original unit.. Airtron here in Indy. Been good to us..

 

[d.mcfarland]

You sound sort of like my grandpa so I understand where you are coming from.

 

[MushCreek]

The building industry seems to be full of hacks these days. I frequent a number of home building forums, and these problems seem to be very common, even on high-dollar custom homes. I built my own home, but used subs for certain items. Only the drywall guy was on time and did first-class work.

I have a friend who is having a modular built, and all of the on-site work has been a disaster. The whole garage roof structure was wrong, and had to be re-done. They plumbed for the water heater right in front of a door. Another door was in the wrong spot. They built the covered front porch with no footers at all- just beams laid on the dirt. They got the crawl space access location wrong- twice. If I had had to rely on others to build my house, I'd either be in jail or the loony bin by now.

 

[Jinks]

Finding competent craftsmen is one of life's most frustrating problems. I'm getting to the age that I can't do all the things I used to do so I need to hire people. I've had problems with several of them in the last few years, but I'm fortunate that I can be on site during the job. I've reached a point that I refuse to pay anything up front, & I watch everything they do. In lieu of a down payment I purchase all the material for the job so they have no up front costs & are getting paid only for their labor. It works for some, not for others. For the ones that won't do it, they loose the job & I don't have to worry about their work ethic.

 

[Shadowdog500]

You are using the wrong contractors. I hear this all the time from people who go with the lowball bidder then beat them up to get an even lower price.

I have a simple formula that has always got me great work.

Step 1: Find the best person in the area for the type of work you need done.(this is a hard step, but as others pointed out, word of mouth and sites like angels list do help widdle it down) the guy with the biggest ad in the paper or yellow pages don't mean squat.

Step 2: Have a detailed conversation so he knows exactly what you want.

Step 3: Pay him what he asks without haggling on price.

Step 4: theat his crew well while they are there. I usually have a 40 cup coffee pot and donuts set up when they get there, and buy a spread of whatever they want for lunch. This step goes a lot further than you know, I did new construction during my summers in college and 30 years later I still remember the house where the woman brought out a pitcher of cold water when we were working on a really hot day.

Yeah I pay more, but I've never failed to be 100% satisfied in the work when they left.

Chris

 

[fourjeepin]

Yep, I hate hiring jobs out

 

[bczygan]

Expectations between two people in almost any relationship always differ.

It takes hard work to get to a meeting of the minds and hearts.

And that requires a desire to do so, on both their parts.

This is made difficult, because motivations are different for the owner and the contractor.

Nothing done by the hand of man is perfect. There are only levels of quality.

And many of the processes in construction are a one shot, with no way to repair except removal and re-installation.

That said, there are many things you can do to insure an improved level of work and to see that expectations are met.

It takes time, effort and money to assure that what you get, is what you expect and want. All things that are typically in short supply, and the reason you hire someone to do work in the first place.

And when you do the work yourself, you REALLY know where all the imperfections are!

It's a conundrum.

Bill

 

[HELLSUNICORN]

Just to be clear I always get multiple estimates, check out the previous work of the person I am hiring and ask for references. I never pay for the work in advance. I don't base my decisions on price. I try to pick the most qualified.

I think I am just having a run of bad luck. I am unable to supervise the work because I am working. If I was able to watch them all day I would just do it myself.

I always treat everyone with respect. I offer them beer/coffee if I am there and I let them know where there is water if they need it. I do everything I can to make their life easier when they are on my property.

In the case of my driveway It looked great the day he finished. I didn't start having problems until a couple of weeks later. The same with the roof. By that point they were both paid so they have no incentive to come back. Both of those problems were fixed for free but it took about a year of hassle to get them done.

The shop floor was finished poorly because I wasn't there to watch. I left detailed instructions but once the concrete is set what can I do? It has thousands of dollars in pex and insulation in it. It would not be cost effective to tear it up because I don't like the finish.

I am very picky on the way I want things done. maybe its because I was in the automotive service industry for years before a career change. I always took great pride in my work.

Thanks everyone for the kind words of advice. Hopefully things will turn around the next time I need work done.

 

[rieferman]

Sounds like you have the right approach, and are just running into some bad luck as you noted. In fact, the fact that two problems ended up being fixed for free (albeit with a longer than desired wait, and some hassle) shows that you picked (at least somewhat) stand up contractors. You're in for a good run of luck for sure.

 

[MushCreek]

I had work done by a very high quality contractor, and he was a great resource for referring subs. His one big fault is that he never shows up when he says he will, never answers his phone, and never calls back. His work is impeccable, when you can get him.

That seems to be a big problem around here- getting the guy to show up. I call a guy three times, and if I don't get a response, I move on to someone else.

 

[AnthonyJ124]

I've had some good experiences and bad experiences. Last few contractors I had, came from references and everyone was happy.

Maybe GJ needs to develop a contractor review site or thread?? Split it by region, limit it to people with 10 posts, don't give BS star ratings that mislead, just text reviews, etc etc....

 

[404]

Step 4: theat his crew well while they are there. I usually have a 40 cup coffee pot and donuts set up when they get there, and buy a spread of whatever they want for lunch. This step goes a lot further than you know, I did new construction during my summers in college and 30 years later I still remember the house where the woman brought out a pitcher of cold water when we were working on a really hot day.



Chris

This. I used to walk around handing out 20 dollar bills, that was 18 years ago.

 

[bczygan]

Just to be clear I always get multiple estimates, check out the previous work of the person I am hiring and ask for references. I never pay for the work in advance. I don't base my decisions on price. I try to pick the most qualified.

I think I am just having a run of bad luck. I am unable to supervise the work because I am working. If I was able to watch them all day I would just do it myself.

I always treat everyone with respect. I offer them beer/coffee if I am there and I let them know where there is water if they need it. I do everything I can to make their life easier when they are on my property.

In the case of my driveway It looked great the day he finished. I didn't start having problems until a couple of weeks later. The same with the roof. By that point they were both paid so they have no incentive to come back. Both of those problems were fixed for free but it took about a year of hassle to get them done.

The shop floor was finished poorly because I wasn't there to watch. I left detailed instructions but once the concrete is set what can I do? It has thousands of dollars in pex and insulation in it. It would not be cost effective to tear it up because I don't like the finish.

I am very picky on the way I want things done. maybe its because I was in the automotive service industry for years before a career change. I always took great pride in my work.

Thanks everyone for the kind words of advice. Hopefully things will turn around the next time I need work done.

There are two things you can do to improve the performance of contractors, especially for warranty work.

First is retainage for warranty work. Commercially, we always retained 10% for a year.

This may not work for a homeowner.

The other, and better method, is a bond. Have the contractor pay for and produce a bond in an amount that will pay for the cost of removals and repairs and replacements that may have to occur.

An advantage of a bond, is that you need not use the same contractor for repairs. In fact, why would you? Using the same contractor that did a bad job, to repair and replace it, is like getting a crappy tool replaced with another crappy tool under warranty.

That, along with insurance, will help protect you.



Bill

 

[purplezr2]

Were these jobs quoted? Where did the contractor you selected bid come in. I find word of mouth is best. I aslo live in a small town which helps if you want to stay in business you don't F' people over.

 

[pablo94sc]

I feel your pain, OP. I felt this way about pretty much every experience I've had with someone else working on my stuff. Maybe I'm too particular, but it's the little details that make the biggest impression to me. Having to come back and do minor corrections to make something great vs good, or good vs it'll do, is one of my biggest pet peeves and the reason I take the time to learn how to do the work myself.

 

[James E]

I feel for you, Hellsunicorn. I'm not sure if you're in the same situation, but my biggest problem is that I am a perfectionist and there's rarely anything that can be done around the house that meets my own, personal standards of fit and finish.

On the few occasions where I found a sub that did truly good work, the fates conspired and something happened to them that prevented me from using them in the future.

I have resolved to lower my standards a bit, but even doing so, it's rare that a sub meets even my lowered standards.

I haven't noticed a very strong correlation between price and quality of work. Of course, the guy that comes in way, way low should be avoided, but I think it just boils down to the fact that there are people with high standards who can't NOT do a good job, and there are people who have low standards or who just don't give a $hit--and the latter seems to make up the majority of the construction trades.

The worst is the guy who finishes a job, takes a look at the pile of **** that he just did and says to himself, "Oh yeah, that looks great." If you get stuck with a guy like that, he'll never fix his mess because he doesn't know what a good job looks like.

 

[jives]

Been there, done that. . . Dropped off my garden tractor for some work. . .pretty sure it needed rings, not sure if just a cylinder hone or bore or valves. Needed experience to really evaluate the situation. Mower sat in the same place in his yard for a month. No replies to call. Drove to his place and took my tractor back. Left a phone message of what I did. He never called back.

On the other hand, the Amish crew that built my barn was spot on. Everything to contract and on budget. The few mistakes they owned up to a fixed. Easy to get hold of and returned calls. Wife served up fresh baked rolls a couple of times per week. Two friends had used these guys and gave good recommendations.

 

[Milton Shaw]

For concrete work I have found that calling the concrete redimix company and asking the dispatcher for recommendations is the best way around here. They know who shows up on time and gets the job done. Then check some of his previous work and verify that the finish is good and he cleaned up after himself. Other contractors its also good to call roofing suppliers etc to get their recommendations. Also your insurance agent has seen just about every kind of work done and would have lists of those to use and more importantly those not to use.

 

[F124C]

.................
.............................
..................
The shop floor was finished poorly because I wasn't there to watch. I left detailed instructions but once the concrete is set what can I do? It has thousands of dollars in pex and insulation in it. It would not be cost effective to tear it up because I don't like the finish.

There are machines for grinding concrete floors to eradicate imperfections incl. a poor finish. (Idk what they're called in the US). They won't get right into the corners but an angle grinder will take care of most of these areas.

Followed by e.g. acrylic coating, you should have a great finish.

Hth,

AL.

 

[F124C]

This. I used to walk around handing out 20 dollar bills, that was 18 years ago.

Hmmm, allowing for inflation that would be..... Wow, Whee!

Need any work done, Sir.?

AL.

 

[66354dream]

I know exactly how you feel, I hate hiring people to do work for me that I can do my self.

 

[bobcatdan]

As someone who was a dealer tech for 15 years where it was all about making the customer happy with a top notch, every dealership I deal with as a customer ***** ****. I see so many **** ups on the little **** its ridiculous.

 

[Mike007]

I'm a contractor, I feel the same way as the OP. I'm not even going to get into a 10 page rant, that what it would take for me to unload my contractor issues.

I just had some work done in my home this week. I'm not bringing the contractor back due to several issues, the latest, a new ceiling he built entirely is out level 1" over 4' and then returns to level. He says it is fine and refuses to fix it. So I'm going to address it this weekend myself. And I've decided not to have him build my deck, I'm doing it myself. F- him!

 

[djjsr]

It's not good enough to just tell a contractor what you want. PUT IT IN WRITING, right down to the smallest detail. If he is not willing to sign it, find another contractor.

I've been in charge of many high dollar construction projects and I drive the contractors crazy with details. But the job gets done to spec and the contractors know that if they don't screw up they have a shot at another project.

 

[Kevin54]

Welcome to my world.

 

[Mike007]

Oh, and I just had my driveway repaved yesterday. The owner of the business shows up and complains to me there's too much dirt, where's he going to put it? And how is he supposed to pave under my PVC gate, can I cut material of the bottom of the gate? And he doesn't see how my grading issue can be fixed......

I cut him right off and told him these were HIS problems not mine. His guys were on sight the day before planning, maybe he should have been there? In the end, it looks OK. The grading is screwed despite me speaking with him about it on day one and he went light on asphalt in several places, 1.5" instead of 2.5".

 

[jd_1138]

My mom hired her neighbor who's a contractor to do some odds and ends -- pour a couple of walkways, build like 100 linear feet of privacy fence, do a small deck/ramp. He asked for $300 for materials cost upfront for part of the materials. So she paid that.

Then when he submitted his final bill ($3,500) for materials/labor, I guess he had forgotten to give her credit for the $300, so my mom mentioned it. And he got kinda sore. He gave her a huge discount. Probably the deck and ramp would've been $3,500 had she hired someone else. I told her I wouldn't have even mentioned the $300. I don't think he'll ever work for her again.

 

[starting]

I have paid to have two roofs done. Both had issues. Both were almost the highest bidder. Both were done by companies in business for years.

Do it yourself if you can is what I've learned and follow. No one cares more about your house then you. When I help buddies all I see is problems that pros have left behind that were paid good money to do the work.

 

[HELLSUNICORN]

There are machines for grinding concrete floors to eradicate imperfections incl. a poor finish. (Idk what they're called in the US). They won't get right into the corners but an angle grinder will take care of most of these areas.

Followed by e.g. acrylic coating, you should have a great finish.

Hth,

AL.

Yes, Hence the reason I had the floor coated. He ground it first. In the floor contractors defense he has been a stand up guy to deal with once I notified him of the problem. He was out today and reground the bad spot. He repainted it and put down more flake. He is coming tomorrow to clear it.

So things might be looking up. Of course I won't be home to supervise but I have faith he will make it right.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Side walk supervising for my son this year.

The guys who did the PVC fence were pros all the way. Obviously had worked together for a while. They knew all the steps. Fast and efficient.

Current guy installing sprinklers. It seems like he has a rain cloud over his head all the time. Worked one day, but not the next (had to finish another job). Then he had issue with his equipment. Late coming out of the repair shop and then it just stopped running (blown master fuse, but why ?). Finally got it fixed, but his "helper" was brand new and he kept having to show him every little thing, sometimes twice. Next day he brought his brother (age 50) along, but he has very little experience.

Today, he left both "rookies" to run some errands. He left some instructions, but they finished them long before he got back 2.5 hours later. I bought them lunch becuase they had not brought anything (boss man knew this) and did not have wheels.

They have been here 3 days. They have put in about 15 hours, even though each day they did not leave until 7PM.

EDIT : Today they buried low voltage control wires 6" below grade. The 1/2" LB going into the garage was only big enough for one multi-conductor wire. I don't know what there plan was but it did not look good, so I went out and bought a 1" LB, a sweep and some 1" plastic conduit and dug the hole and installed it myself.