Am I Missing a Flare Wrench Size?

[Bull]

This is peculiar. I need to remove the rear felxible brake line on my '69 GTO. My 3/8 flare wrench is too small, and the 7/16 is too large. An 11 mm fits the nut closer than anything else that I have, but it isn't a real tight fit. I don't want to break the hard line that the flex is attached to, nor do I want to round off the nut.

Just seems strange. I had the same problem for the front lines, but they were not very tight and the 11 mm fit well enough to crack them loose.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

are they the factory lines? maybe a little off because of the rust? when i replaced the original lines on my '66 mustang, the 3/8" fit perfect, on the replacement lines, the 3/8 is a little loose, but not bad enough to round them off. i don't miss messing with rusty parts ( i'm from the cape ) .

 

[bcradio]

if you have the knipex pliers wrench, try those if they can get in there.

 

[Rico.]

Bull, that is a really curious problem.

Do you have, or have access to a micrometer or Vernier Calliper..?
I would be very much inclined to measure the nut and your flare nut
spanners to find out exactly what you are dealing with here.

11mm is almost exactly 7/16" so my "Educated guess" is that the
fitting has corroded slightly or was poorly made to start with.
Or your spanners are a little off in their manufacture. You can also
never discount the posibillity that the nut is actually 13/32"

Have a measure and get back to us. I am really curious now...

 

[Rico.]

Just to be sure, I assume you tried a 10mm spanner as well and it was too small.
If you didn't, is it possible to have a metric fitting on a '69 American car..?
As 10mm is just a tiny fraction bigger than 3/8" which would explain you not being
able to fit a 3/8" spanner on it, but 11mm and 7/16" feel too big.

Just a thought.

 

[lbgradwell]

I'm no mechanic, but I had to replace a brake line on my 1998 Ford Windstar two weeks ago. Of course, I then needed to bleed the line(s) and my Snap-ons would not fit one of the front bleeders. I tried the metric sizes too, with no success.

I ended up using one of those small Vise-Grip Locking Wrenches - a trick I learned here...

 

[joe_padavano]

If you didn't, is it possible to have a metric fitting on a '69 American car..?

Absolutely not. I've definitely had situations where the original SAE fittings had rusted to the point that a metric wrench was needed.

 

[HellaFab]

if you can, file the flat faces down so your one that is just too small fits like a glove.

That way you dont have a chance to round it off.

 

[jkwilson]

Brand? I've experienced some deviation in size on flare nut wrenches in the past. I found one where my 7/16" wrench wouldn't fit, but the 7/16" from a set in the box I inherited from my FIL fit perfectly. Both are moderate quality tools without excessive wear, but are distinctly different sizes.

 

[sberry]

I eleminate a lot of the problem and grab up the vise grips early on and save some steps, hahaha

 

[Bull]

I am starting to hate the old car hobby.

The 7/16 that had been fitting way too loosely was an older Blackhawk piece. I have a set of old Duro/Indestros as well, so I tried the 7/16 from that set. It fit much better, but still had a little wobble. Flare wrenches are supposed to be super tight with no wobble, right?

Anyway, it fit well enough to try and break the nut free. This is the connection right above the axle, where the flexible hose passes through the chassis and connects to the hard line going to the front of the car. I felt the nut spin and thought I was home free. Nope, no effing way. The hard line snapped right behind the nut. This is despite heavy hosings with Kroil over the last two weeks and using a wire brush to clean the area up.

So now I need to replace the hard line (money and time, won't have the parts until next week or the time to install them until next weekend) and since all the fluid drained out from the broken line, my freshly bled and bolted master cylinder now has air in it again. So, I'll need to unbolt and bench bleed again.

**** this.

 

[Gary S]

I pulled the lines off my 70 Camaro a few months ago, and one of my Craftsman flare wrenches was a perfect fit. I don't remember which one, but it is SAE. I don't own metric wrenches. I sprayed the fittings a day ahead of time with a 50-50 mix of ATF/Acetone, and all fittings came apart effortlessly with no damage to the lines or nuts.

 

[RCStocker]

Every hear of Metric?

 

[SKAutomotive]

Every hear of Metric?

An 11 mm fits the nut closer than anything else that I have

 

[sberry]

repace the line, pour fluid in master, open the bleeders, let set a while, smokem if you got them, wait for fluid to come, Why you guys want this for a hobby is beyond me.

 

[Hiball]

I am starting to hate the old car hobby.

The 7/16 that had been fitting way too loosely was an older Blackhawk piece. I have a set of old Duro/Indestros as well, so I tried the 7/16 from that set. It fit much better, but still had a little wobble. Flare wrenches are supposed to be super tight with no wobble, right?

Anyway, it fit well enough to try and break the nut free. This is the connection right above the axle, where the flexible hose passes through the chassis and connects to the hard line going to the front of the car. I felt the nut spin and thought I was home free. Nope, no effing way. The hard line snapped right behind the nut. This is despite heavy hosings with Kroil over the last two weeks and using a wire brush to clean the area up.

So now I need to replace the hard line (money and time, won't have the parts until next week or the time to install them until next weekend) and since all the fluid drained out from the broken line, my freshly bled and bolted master cylinder now has air in it again. So, I'll need to unbolt and bench bleed again.

**** this.

Such Language....LOL My last 2 projects entailed of some Brake line Replacement, The 1st one 79 chevy Truck, I tried to only replace the from the Union on back to the Rear.. It was a complete waste of time. Everywhere that brake line was connected to the Inner Frame rail was Damn near rotten.. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and start from scratch, Especially with things such as Brake lines.. It just doesnt pay to piece New to old together "Sometimes".. . My 2 cents.

 

[Bull]

I'm going to order a kit for the rear in stainless tonight from Summit. It just burns my *** that the car sits for another week and can't be driven.

When I'm old and my kids are grown, I'll probably have all kinds of free time to play with cars. But by then, I probably won't want to. And now, when I am young-ish, I don't have much spare time, too many projects to spread it out over, and am starting to develop a real unhealthy attitude to tinkering.

Anyone have a world's smallest violin to play for me?

 

[Hiball]

I'm going to order a kit for the rear in stainless tonight from Summit. It just burns my *** that the car sits for another week and can't be driven.

When I'm old and my kids are grown, I'll probably have all kinds of free time to play with cars. But by then, I probably won't want to. And now, when I am young-ish, I don't have much spare time, too many projects to spread it out over, and am starting to develop a real unhealthy attitude to tinkering.

Anyone have a world's smallest violin to play for me?

No.. But I can sing along if you want stainless? Fancy..

 

[Bull]

No.. But I can sing along if you want stainless? Fancy..

Well heck, I don't want it to rust again and cause this bullcrap when I am fifty and under the car doing the same job!

 

[Hiball]

Well heck, I don't want it to rust again and cause this bullcrap when I am fifty and under the car doing the same job!

Right on...

 

[Gmonkee]

C'mon Bull, its a '69 !!!!
I replace a brakeline on most everything I pull one off of anymore. Dirt piles up on them and sets sometimes for years, they rust away slowly.

I have Wurth flare nut wrenches in metric, any damage no matter how minor they won't go on. The ones I got rid of a while ago were a mixed batch of sloppy fitting stuff that had the opposite problem.

Now I just use regular wrenches like I used to on SAE and the Wurth on newer metrics. Older metrics get a normal open end wrench as before the big experiment. All the issues went away just like that.

The brakes, a nice function for a car to have. They should have newer and better parts anyway when doubt exists. Lose a week but know everybody is safer after the replacement.

 

[Bull]

It's real good to see you over here, Gmonkee. I am certain that your advice is sound.

I'm just frustrated. This car was off the road for close to ten years. I got it back on the road last spring, cruised until fall, then the brakes just went away. Started messing with it weeks ago, a few minutes at a time, and here we are.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

I torque pipe nuts to 30 ft lbs

 

[sberry]

I Dont read all tbhe threads but some just catch the eye. There are some neat concepts here. 1 being would never have thought much about a story of a brake line nut,, thats facinating all its own and a couple, possibly 3 pages of ideas including a couple that I have never thought of and I got a vivid imagination.

I might remember,,, just before grabbing this with a vise grip to get the micrometer out and measure it.

 

[emeraldcoupe]

I torque pipe nuts to 30 ft lbs

congratulations

 

[Delray]

Go to your auto supply and ask for Cunifer lines. They are an alloy that resist rust and are easier to bend. If you don't have a double flare tool they should be able to make them up for you if you know the length.

Where I live brake and fuel lines and tanks as well can rust out in 10 years. A combination of road salt and dirt and moisture covers them in places you can't get at to clean. The lines will almost always rust to the nut and twist off. Few wrenches will fit tightly to the nuts after they are corroded.

 

[racingtadpole]

Sounds like the jaws of the first one you tried had been spread a bit.

If you need to save the nut and you have a bit of room, clamp the flare nut spanner up with a pair of vice grips once its on the nut..

 

[sberry]

It seems Mr Bull is just starting the old car/car "hobby" I doubt this is something destined for the winter roads, steel replace would be fine and wouldnt take a week or cost a lot. But if this gives you a fit this hobby will be frustrating at best. People are often suprised I dont have all the stuff,,, heck I think its all junk, a lot of it was junk when it was new.

That was the generation of planned obsolesance, now days the throw away **** is cheap but the public is quick to forget it got stuck with some real lemons. Lots of the Camaros got smashed up before wore out, rusted off in a hurry. GM had all those bastardized models, olds, buick, even when I was a little kid it didnt make sense to put different engine in each one.
Merc did the same, made so many different options never did make one right. I probably miss one but didnt we have 283, 307, 305, 327 350

 

[Delray]

By the way, your bleeders on the wheel cylinders will probably break off. You have to take off the cylinder, strip it down, drill the bleeder, heat it and use an easy out to remove it. I think they made a kit for this repair. Now rebuild the cylinder with a hone and new pucks and seals. Or just buy a new cylinder.

You can try bleeding at the line but you may not get all the air out.

Are you having fun yet.

Oh yeah, those lines going to the cylinders will likely twist off too so you may as well plan on changing them and the hose and finish the rear.

The front lines normally don't rust as bad as the three to the back so you may be OK but I would check them carefully.

 

[sberry]

I see a vid or 2 where various pliers are uysed in r and r of damaged fasteners and with the constant chatter of "the right tool for the job" its easy to overlook simple. This is a constant, as sure as death and taxes. But no real gimick or other tools makes up for it all but mastery of the standard vise grip.
I got nothing against a tubing wrench but they are about usdeless for common work in the rust belt. 2 pcs needed, a 6 r and a 10 r and you can keep curved jaws for pipe where they belong.

This is so common that even a hobby guy can afford, if he can afford a ratchet cost 100 can get a few pieces of tubing ready made and some connectors, there are even adapters. Yes,,, I have a flare set but if its humanyl possible grab a ready made I stock or could grab off the shelf, even 2 with a coupling maybe even add this in convenient place etc but easy beats perfect.

If its way too hard, if it cost too much then there is reduced incentive to replace which is what should have done prior to this event and then some. There is no part on the brakes that shouldnt have been replaced already.

Believe it or not if I get on it early before it gets boogered from a wrench you never know it, really dont damage the fastener.

 

[sberry]

I bet a wheel cyl can be had at a common auto parts store for 15$. All the parts for this job are so cheap its pointless to salvage anything. 3 hoses would be the expensive part. 4 ready made lines, I didnt look to see what the kit he has bought is but I bet its competitive.

What Bull will learn when he is 50 is that he could have done it all with 2 pairs of grips,,k, hahaha

 

[lbgradwell]

I ended up using one of those small Vise-Grip Locking Wrenches - a trick I learned here...

When I spoke of Vise-Grips on page 1, I meant the locking wrenches, not the locking pliers. Specifically, the tiny 4LW model:

No doubt the pliers will work, but the locking wrenches will not mar the fastener the way a pair of pliers might (and probably will)...

 

[Bull]

I'm not just starting this hobby; I've been messing around with old cars since the early 1990s. That being said, I have very little time to work on anything these days, and what time I do have I would rather spend USING the car rather than dealing with broken **** that keeps it off the road.

Also, despite being in the hobby for so long, I have far less experience than a pro, obviously. I have always been able to get flare nuts off before. This is the first time I've just not been able to do it and broken the line instead.

The Knipex locking pliers and those that lbgradwell shows above are tools I don't have, but now think I should.

I don't want to just use regular vise grips if I can avoid it. Besides, since the tube broke behind the nut, it seems that gripping force on the nut was not the fatal flaw this time, but rather corrosion fusing the nut to the line and ensuring a break. Even Kroil could not save me.

I ordered a new front to rear line and new rear lines in stainless from Right Stuff via Summit this morning. The front lines should also be replaced I am sure but they came off without much trouble during that part of the job.

 

[sselander]

It is to be expected for a car that is 44 years old to have some issues
You have to use every trick in the book working on the old cars.
It is not like you can run down to the car store and gets parts readily anymore.

 

[Rico.]

Bull, if the brake line looks like it will need replacing anyway, instead of attacking the
fitting with vice grips and pliers, just cut the pipe close to the fitting and get a socket
on there. It may be a pain in the **** to fit a new brake line, but it's a lot less of a pain
than it otherwise could be.

 

[sberry]

I have never used the locking wrench,, so I can assume it really works well? As for marring a fastemner, again,, its 44 years old and rusted. Wouldnt hurt it if it did. Stripping them ruins, a couple minor teeth marks not even noticeable in average work.

 

[Bull]

Ash on here has the 7" Knipex pliers wrench with comfort grips for $45 and shipping. I'm ordering one from him so that I am prepared for situations like these in the future. Those wrenches are the most consistently five-star related products I have ever seen on Amazon. Everyone says they are revolutionary and awesome.

 

[dirtmister16]

i had a similar problem once with a forklift. luckily i had a couple of differn't flare wrenches, one fit poorly and another fit really tight and worked great. both name brand and good tools but it showed me what one fits poorly and not to get more of them.

otherwise id say you have a rust or aftermarket lines issue. ive always found penetrating oil and vise grips work if you have no other choice. not a perfect soultion but it gets the job done.

 

[TheGrooveking]

Do you think it was replaced once upon time, say when British Standard may have been more prevalent? You know in a shop that did old Triumphs and Austin Healeys. Things like this always take me back to my 1/4" drive SK 6.3mm socket...

TheGrooveking

 

[redwrench60]

When I'm old and my kids are grown, I'll probably have all kinds of free time to play with cars. But by then, I probably won't want to. And now, when I am young-ish, I don't have much spare time, too many projects to spread it out over, and am starting to develop a real unhealthy attitude to tinkering.


This is the curse of regular guys everywhere. If the time spent vs reward ratio is ******* you off don't worry, you've got company!