amazing weave tig welds

[unclejunk]

Straight current is the polarity of the current. (electrode negative)

Stepping the torch means he is moving the torch stop and go not at a continues speed

laying .063 rod means the welder is feeding the rod at a continuous pace. .063 refers to the filler metal diameter 1/16 of an inch.

Pulsing the current means either with his foot pedal or with the settings on the machine he is modulating the current.

dipping the .063 means he is feeding the the filler metal a little at a time.


If someone else wants to add to this feel free.


Brad

I'm not a welder, so maybe I'm off... but he is using TIG, so the welder isn't feeding any wire. I think 'laying the rod' means he is basically leaving the rod in the puddle and moving the TIG torch over/along it to continually feed the puddle.

Its awesome to see someone doing such nice work and letting people know some details about how they're making it happen!

 

[buildyourown]

Those do look nice. However, double pass welds are not always the strongest.
When doing Ti, stainless, and Chro-moly, the second pass improves the aesthetics. The problem is that the second pass incorporates any impurities from the first pass into the weld.

I know this can be argued either way, but I would prefer to see a single pass on a structural component.

 

[Cryptic1911]

Wow, this is an amazing looking weld! I remember agtronic from the vwvortex

For other great looking welds, keep an eye on the Welding/Fab section of honda-tech.com
There are some very skilled people out there!
http://honda-tech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53

 

[buening]

It looks like he was a TIG welder in a production line, so doing that 8hrs a day for 5 years will get you robotic looking welds

From page 78:

".....those r the best kinda shops to learn in though, I did production welding in a bike mfg, 8 hrs of aluminum TIG everyday for 5 years, gets real boring buy if u pay attention to what ur doing and have the desire to get better, it wont b to long before ur on top of ur game. "

 

[Tantara]

I'm not a welder, so maybe I'm off... but he is using TIG, so the welder isn't feeding any wire. I think 'laying the rod' means he is basically leaving the rod in the puddle and moving the TIG torch over/along it to continually feed the puddle.

Its awesome to see someone doing such nice work and letting people know some details about how they're making it happen!

Sorry, I was unclear, by welder I meant the guy welding.

 

[Tantara]

Those do look nice. However, double pass welds are not always the strongest.
When doing Ti, stainless, and Chro-moly, the second pass improves the aesthetics. The problem is that the second pass incorporates any impurities from the first pass into the weld.

I know this can be argued either way, but I would prefer to see a single pass on a structural component.

I would be the one that disagrees in a friendly way. I have done miles of multipass welds. They are commonly accepted industry wide.

A weld bead that is too large can encourage incomplete bonding in the root, undercuts and improper grain growth. If you have impurities in the the base weld grind it clean first.

Brad

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Those do look nice. However, double pass welds are not always the strongest.
When doing Ti, stainless, and Chro-moly, the second pass improves the aesthetics. The problem is that the second pass incorporates any impurities from the first pass into the weld.

I know this can be argued either way, but I would prefer to see a single pass on a structural component.

In the heavy structural world, we often have welds that run as large as 3/4" or 7/8" filet welds. Some of the full-pen welds are on material that is 3" to 7" thick. The ONLY way to do any of them is a multi pass weld. The maximum for a single pass fillet weld for GMAW or FCAW is 5/16". Each pass is cleaned to base metal before the next is run.

If something more than a visual inspection is required, they are subject to ultrasonic, radiographic, dye penetrant or mag particle testing. I rarely hear of a weld failing when you have a good welder running a stinger.

Rod burners (like me) on the other hand......

 

[nismomans13]

In the heavy structural world, we often have welds that run as large as 3/4" or 7/8" filet welds. Some of the full-pen welds are on material that is 3" to 7" thick. The ONLY way to do any of them is a multi pass weld. The maximum for a single pass fillet weld for GMAW or FCAW is 5/16". Each pass is cleaned to base metal before the next is run.

If something more than a visual inspection is required, they are subject to ultrasonic, radiographic, dye penetrant or mag particle testing. I rarely hear of a weld failing when you have a good welder running a stinger.

Rod burners (like me) on the other hand......

glad you said it. It's pretty rare, almost non existent to see single passes in the industrial/structural world. Some of our welds require 7-8 passes with 3/32 rod. When doing steam drums we're welding with 5/32 rods and putting almost 10 passes of those in.

You don't weld heavy wall with a single pass, it just isn't going to happen. Now don't get me wrong. These guys are amazing welders, my welds don't look like that and i've been doing it for years. But the bottom line is, with enough practice and everything perfect your welds will be perfect.

I see kids fresh out of school think their the most badass rod burner on the job site, but put them in the hole and not their perfect test booth with a perfect 3/32 gap and watch how fast they fail.

 

[buildyourown]

I understand the use of multi-pass on heavy stuff. Thin, exotic material is completely different.

I'm just playing devils advocate here. There are many people double passing Ti with excellent track records. I wonder what the aerospace spec is for Ti and stainless? I'm sure Boeing has on opinion. Though, they also say you aren't allowed to bronze braze 4130, and it is done prolifically on high-end bicycles.

 

[jhn9840]

glad you said it. It's pretty rare, almost non existent to see single passes in the industrial/structural world. Some of our welds require 7-8 passes with 3/32 rod. When doing steam drums we're welding with 5/32 rods and putting almost 10 passes of those in.

You don't weld heavy wall with a single pass, it just isn't going to happen. Now don't get me wrong. These guys are amazing welders, my welds don't look like that and i've been doing it for years. But the bottom line is, with enough practice and everything perfect your welds will be perfect.

I see kids fresh out of school think their the most badass rod burner on the job site, but put them in the hole and not their perfect test booth with a perfect 3/32 gap and watch how fast they fail.

Amen, I welded in a ship repair yard for many years. Most everything required multiple passes 5/32 or 3/32 e6010 covered up with e7018. New steel was kept out in a field, had rust on it when you got it. Fit up was done with O/A and an angle grinder out in the field. It took some time but when you learned to weld like that you could weld anywhere.

jhn9840
John

 

[tcianci]

I have enough welding experience to both appreciate the craftsmanship shown here and to be sick to my stomach about my own welding capabilities at the same time. I do agree that practice is the biggest single factor. I weld intermittantly (and I don't mean stitch welding) so my skills have time to deteriorate a fair amount between projects

 

[blue dog]

[/QUOTE]

Correct me if i am wrong, but the rainbow in the weld pictured is from to much heat input, but the heat effected zone on the tube looks consistent. I am far from a pro but i have the lingo down.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Correct me if i am wrong, but the rainbow in the weld pictured is from to much heat input, but the heat effected zone on the tube looks consistent. I am far from a pro but i have the lingo down.

The "rainbow" is there due to the shielding gas either not having a high enough flow rate or the technique used by the welder ("flipping" the torch while dipping his filler rod). The stainless will oxidize when it is not protected by the shielding gas and form the colors that you see. On the structural stainless that is welded by the fabricators I know of, tubes and pipes are plugged and then purged with shielding gas to prevent any oxidation inclusions in the weld from the backside.

Most of the fancy welding I am familar with is on Nuke projects but high seismic areas have almost the same problems and QA requirements as the nukies. I can't weld for **** compared to the guys in the shops that do it for a living although I would like to try. The 3 phase welders, flux core wire plus shielding gas allows then to make some very nice welds. Just watch two welders spend 40 hours making a fun pen splice in a W14x730 column some time.....The weldout tabs alone weigh 30 to 40 pounds when they are cut off after all of the beads are run.

 

[t100]

huh....... are you guys serious? that's freaking stainless, Blue, Purple and Straw are all normal good colors indicates proper weld.

"The colors let you know that the metal has a chance to cool off enough before the argon shielding coming out of the tig cup leaves the heated stainless."

black, charcoal and grey are bad.

 

[blue dog]

I have no stainless experience, so if it were chromoly tubing and that rainbow was there, would that not express the fact that there was to much heat input? or just that the it was not left protected from the shielding gas long enough? Is welding stainless a lot more technical then welding chromoly or dom? Its funny, i have been welding my own stuff for a long time and never welded stainless or aluminum and have never stick welded anything. I would like to try!

 

[nismomans13]

huh....... are you guys serious? that's freaking stainless, Blue, Purple and Straw are all normal good colors indicates proper weld.

"The colors let you know that the metal has a chance to cool off enough before the argon shielding coming out of the tig cup leaves the heated stainless."

black, charcoal and grey are bad.

yet another wrong answer. The blues and purples are oxidation as mentioned here earlier. The straw color is the color you would want your SS weld to be throughout. The reason the blues and purples are widely accepted in the 'automotive' world is because their are aesthetically pleasing.

Again, i'm not saying its a bad weld, i'm just saying its not 'proper' in the definition of what a SS weld should be. Research it anywhere and you will come up with the same answer that the blues and purples are due to the metal not cooling completely before the argon envelope has left the weld area. Pretty close to impossible to avoid unless you weld a bit then allow the metal to cool then weld again. A constant SS weld will always result in blues and purples, but that doesn't make it right.

THAT is a proper SS weld

If you want to know how SS welds should look and be done.
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/discolored-stainless-steel-welds.html

 

[t100]

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tig-welding-stainless-flange-video.html

read on.

I actually quoted the same guy you mentioned.

that weld will be looking like yours after a brush.

 

[nismomans13]

fact still remains that the discoloration isn't 'proper' like everyone says. I'm not saying mine don't get a rainbow hue to them because they do. But people should know that, that isn't what its 'supposed' to look like.

I sometimes think 'tuners' would like welds with porosity if some magazine published pictures of a supercar with porous welds.

 

[blue dog]

yet another wrong answer. The blues and purples are oxidation as mentioned here earlier. The straw color is the color you would want your SS weld to be throughout. The reason the blues and purples are widely accepted in the 'automotive' world is because their are aesthetically pleasing.

Again, i'm not saying its a bad weld, i'm just saying its not 'proper' in the definition of what a SS weld should be. Research it anywhere and you will come up with the same answer that the blues and purples are due to the metal not cooling completely before the argon envelope has left the weld area. Pretty close to impossible to avoid unless you weld a bit then allow the metal to cool then weld again. A constant SS weld will always result in blues and purples, but that doesn't make it right.

THAT is a proper SS weld

If you want to know how SS welds should look and be done.
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/discolored-stainless-steel-welds.html

this is the answer i was looking for , Thank you

 

[t100]

some examples for you from pro's:

same after the wire wheel

Same weld after wirebrush.

Same weld after wirebrush.

 

[t100]

this is the answer i was looking for , Thank you

[/IMG]

 

[blue dog]

T100, what is the part being fabricated in the 3rd pic from the bottom? is that a fuel cell?

Any way, in this pic of my tig welding, would you say i was moving to fast, my heat factor seemed fine. This was a piece of solid stock being welded to a forged piece [ unfamiliar territory for me ]. welded with a syncrowave 200.
Any professional [ emphasis on professional ] input would be appreciated. I strictly weld moly and dom 120 wall tubing. All ways looking for tips.

 

[t100]

it's a SS oil pan.

I'm a newbie so this is just my 0.02. both of my instructors have more than 40 years each under their belt. when we turn in the SS test works, they specifically told us not to brush the weld beads because they want to see the discoloration. the worst thing for stainless is sugaring. black crust in the back of the weld.

I only deal with .065- 0.120 moly tubing, don't feel any difference than hot rolled steel. matter of fact, moly is easier because it's such a clean metal, mild steel always have some junks here and there, pops up on you.

did you bevel the solid stock? if you are talking about the undercut, just add a second pass. use 3/32 rod and dip less frequent.

 

[blue dog]

Yes , the solid stock was beveled, and the forged piece was just cleaned very well, Thanks for the tip's. Have you ever used E70s2 filler rod. Someone brought me some to try, have not yet, maybe this weekend. Supposed to be the shiznizzle for chromoly.

 

[rockchucker]

That is just RETARDED!!! Fuggin' BEAUTIFUL! Very nice work Sir. Out of this world.

 

[bjaspud]

If you guys saw the beads I lay down in mild steel with my Chinese mig welder you'd come to my house and confiscate all my tools.

How I weld and how these guys weld is like comparing my driving to the corner store with racing in the Indy 500.

Nice work guys.

"I'm not worthy !"

 

[chad s]

To avoid the purple/blue color on a SS weld, you really need a follower cup, or a purge chamber. I know that if I tack something and use the correct post flow and keep the torch on the tack, it wont torn blue/purple. But when running a bead, the torch cant stay on any one area long enough for the weld pool to cool enough while under the argon purge, so it will discolor.

 

[NUTTSGT]

wow just freaking awesome

 

[bobx]

great thread. bttt

 

[blue dog]

Here is a link to a master at work. All i can say is am not worthy!
http://s448.photobucket.com/albums/qq201/Marcella_manifolds/

 

[e-tek]

The more you look at the picture the better the bead looks. Surely if someone could run that pretty of a bead, there would be proper penetration to go with it.

jhn9840
John

Also the first thing I thought....but none of the "pros" here have mentioned it so maybe it's supposed to look like that!

great thread. bttt

Agreed!

 

[blue dog]

I am a bit confused what is going on in this shot. What would the purpose of the weave be to have have it so wide? does anyone here have knowledge regarding welds like this?

http://s448.photobucket.com/albums/qq201/Marcella_manifolds/?action=view&current=IMG_0004.jpg

 

[Tantara]

I am a bit confused what is going on in this shot. What would the purpose of the weave be to have have it so wide? does anyone here have knowledge regarding welds like this?

http://s448.photobucket.com/albums/qq201/Marcella_manifolds/?action=view&current=IMG_0004.jpg

Generally if I am weaving that wide I am welding out of position. This gives the weld time to solidify before you add more molten weld metal to the puddle. A smaller puddle is less likely to drip or become misshapen. The other reason I can think of to make a wide weave is when I am trying to cover a large area with a coating of weld metal not necessarily joining two parts but making them thicker.

I think in the photo you linked it is a combination of these two.

Brad

 

[Tantara]

The more you look at the picture the better the bead looks. Surely if someone could run that pretty of a bead, there would be proper penetration to go with it.

jhn9840
John

I would expect that that weld is of excellent quality but, a good looking weld bead can have flaws. There can be cracking under the bead if the incorrect filler metal is used. Incomplete fusion of the root is possible. Or a general lack of penetration is also possible in an otherwise excellent looking weld. Some excellent looking welds may have inclusion or impurities that weaken the weld.

On the other hand if a weld is not good looking I would be quite certain that it has flaws, whether they are catastrophic flaws is another question.

Brad

 

[Professur]

I am a bit confused what is going on in this shot. What would the purpose of the weave be to have have it so wide? does anyone here have knowledge regarding welds like this?

http://s448.photobucket.com/albums/qq201/Marcella_manifolds/?action=view&current=IMG_0004.jpg

Looking at 'where' the welding was done, and the fact that at the bottom some machining was done over the welded area ... he may have been repairing a crack, or he may well have been 'heat treating' a high stress area to strengthen it. Given the symetrical work done in this pic I doubt it was a repair.

 

[Tantara]

Looking at 'where' the welding was done, and the fact that at the bottom some machining was done over the welded area ... he may have been repairing a crack, or he may well have been 'heat treating' a high stress area to strengthen it. Given the symetrical work done in this pic I doubt it was a repair.

I believe he is changing the shape of the ID and is safeguarding himself from grinding through the wall.

Brad

 

[1NRO]

First post so hello to all first.

I've seen John describe his work on that manifold, it was to repair breakthrough after porting.

Nik

 

[Professur]

Well well.

 

[purplezr2]

Bringing this to the top for all the new kids, I remember seeing thread years ago. Nice looking welds in the link in the first post

 

[Boost Creep]

also check out @weldporn on instagram. posts tons of sweet looking welds