American Scale 4 1/2 Vise

[carmad]

Been a lurker here for sometime, picked up this American Scale vise from Craigslist. I have wanted a larger vise, and it dwarfs my 4" Wilton from Lowes.
I can't decide whether to do a complete refurbish paint-job, or just clean it up. It is in great condition, has the removable pipe jaws, no cracks, very smooth opening and closing, and jaws are in good condition.
I was going to mount it on my welding table, but it looks huge compared to the size of the table. Maybe I will mount it on my workbench.
Any input appreciated.

 

[ZRX61]

1 vote for refurb/restore

 

[SweetD]

My vote: see how it comes out with just a clean-up and oiling. If you aren't satisfied with that, you can always go for a full restore. You might be surprised how it cleans up on its own.

Sweet vise -

Dave

 

[carmad]

Dave that makes sense, I was planning on completely dismantling it anyway.

 

[autopts]

I think its condition is excellent for immediate use. Thats a great find!

 

[Hammer1963]

I have a 4" American scale vise that I have started to restore. I am trying to decide what color it will end up. I am leaning towards an industial green or a Hammer tone finish of some color. Any ideas on color would be helpful.

 

[Catalyze]

Great vise! Finally, Kansas City gets some vise loving......
It's in great shape and a nice combo vise to do about anything
that you will clamp with it. Keep the progress photos coming.
Craig

 

[carmad]

Well it came apart really easily, the screw is in great condition, well greased. It has not been beat to death. This thing weighs just over 80lbs.
I am so excited about this find, because I have been looking for a while, $50 well spent, it was listed on craigslist as a "Big Clamp".
I am going to paint it hammertone black, with gold lettering, I did consider Hunter Green with gold lettering.
Just getting the bits and pieces together to give it an electrolysis bath, in the next couple of days.
Will keep you posted.

 

[carmad]

The magic is happening, chemistry is a wonderful thing.
A couple of the pictures show what I think are defects from the casting process. I was going to fill with JB Weld and smooth it out.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[Catalyze]

Very nice work Carmad! Nothing beats electricity and water for a good time. Spin up the wire wheel and angle grinder and get it shiny. Of course at this point Jack Vines has already taken you off his Christmas list for stripping the finish. No matter, you are earning points towards Pie! Keep us in the photo loop!
Craig

 

[carmad]

Clean-up is proceeding well, just have the swivel base to clean. In one of the attached pictures, you can see a stamp with an anchor, with US either side, on the nose of the screw.
I am guessing this may have come from a US Naval shop, do they stamp equipment with that logo?

Julian

 

[autopts]

Been a lurker here for sometime, picked up this American Scale vise from Craigslist. I have wanted a larger vise, and it dwarfs my 4" Wilton from Lowes.
I can't decide whether to do a complete refurbish paint-job, or just clean it up. It is in great condition, has the removable pipe jaws, no cracks, very smooth opening and closing, and jaws are in good condition.
I was going to mount it on my welding table, but it looks huge compared to the size of the table. Maybe I will mount it on my workbench.
Any input appreciated.

Have you tried to do any investagative work on the History of American Scale? I thought they just made scales.

 

[bl00]

Have you tried to do any investagative work on the History of American Scale? I thought they just made scales.

I did a little searching after I got one last year. Looks like they were in business from 1910 when the Eagle Scale Co moved to Kansas City and changed to the American Scale Co. They lost a lawsuit to the casters union and went out of business in 1960. I couldn't find much else other than they had a factory burn down in 1913.


more:
1954 they were incorporated by Cromb & Gagel of Kansas City

Apparently they were resurrected after the bankruptcy:
1963 "now a division of The Marley Co" - Red Seal vises available in 5 sizes (per Heating & Air Conditioning Contractor 1963)
1963 Marley Co., Kansas City, Mo., purchased American Scale & Vise Co (Industry Week Vol 153)
1963 American Scale & Vise Resumes Production, The American Scale & Vise Co. has resumed production on its full line of vises for home and industrial use. The company is operated as a division of the Marley Co., Kansas City, Mo (Hardware Age Vol 191)
1971 company is referenced in trade catalogs up to 1971 (Google Books)


Here's mine-

 

[carmad]

Yes I did some searching and came up with the same info.
Any idea about the stamped motif in post #11?

 

[SweetD]

Here mine-

WHOA! HOLY **** that's NICE!

 

[Packard V8]

Of course at this point Jack Vines has already taken you off his Christmas list for stripping the finish.

Once I saw carmad had progressed from

I can't decide whether to do a complete refurbish paint-job, or just clean it up. It is in great condition,

to

I am going to paint it hammertone black, with gold lettering, I did consider Hunter Green with gold lettering.

in only five hours, I knew I'd be wasting bandwidth.

jack vines

 

[bl00]

No info on the symbol. It adds character though.

Yours is the first pipe vise I've seen from them. I like it

If you ever come across any advertisements that show the different models send me a copy. I can't make any sense of their numbering system.

 

[autopts]

I did a little searching after I got one last year. Looks like they were in business from 1910 when the Eagle Scale Co moved to Kansas City and changed to the American Scale Co. They lost a lawsuit to the casters union and went out of business in 1960. I couldn't find much else other than they had a factory burn down in 1913.


Here mine-

Wow! That vise from a distance looks huge and in good condition..Thanks for the info and the share. Could their numbering system be anything like Hollands? I had a Hollands 26 that went in at 200 lbs, swivel base.

 

[bl00]

Wow! That vise from a distance looks huge and in good condition..Thanks for the info and the share. Could their numbering system be anything like Hollands? I had a Hollands 26 that went in at 200 lbs, swivel base.

I was writing down the numbers for awhile when I'd see one on e-bay or Craigslist. There were several others that I recall seeing, but never wrote down.

No2: open screw, anvil horn, round knob, opens about 2 3/4 inches, swivel base
No3: open screw, anvil horn, round knob
No4: 4" jaw, open screw, anvil horn, round knob, swivel base

N010: 3 3/4" jaw, 5" opening, 31lbs, fixed base, round knob
No15: covered screw, round knob, might have a swivel base
No30: small vise, small anvil, horn, cylinder knob, open screw
No40: small vise w/pipe jaws, anvil, horn , open screw
No45: similar to No4
No50: open screw, swivel base, anvil/horn, 5” jaw, 40lbs
No50C (or 500): same as No50
No55: no info

No20: weird anvil vise wi/drilling hole through dyn jaw 43lbs
No5: 4" jaw, opens 5", same style as no20 34.2lbs

No?: 8” jaw with 14” opening fixed base (looks kinda like mine above without the swivel parts)

No53N: American Scale/Red Seal, fixed base (need size info)
No54: American Scale/Red Seal, 4.5" jaw, 9 3/4" opening, 9" height, fixed base
No56: American Scale/Red Seal, 6" jaw, 12" opening, fixed base
No61C: American Scale/Red Seal, 3" jaw, 35lbs, swivel base
No62C: American Scale/Red Seal, 3 1/2" jaw, 6 1/2" opening, swivel base
No64: American Scale/Red Seal, 4" jaw, 8" opening, swivel base, 11" height, , handle length 13 1/2", 79 lbs
No64: American Scale/Red Seal, 4.5" jaw, 10.25" high, 3.5" from top of jaw to screw cover, 13" length of screw cover from jaw face to end, swivel base, 75 lbs
No66: American Scale/Red Star, 6” jaw, 14” opening
No?: American Scale/Red Seal, 4” jaw,
No75H: American Scale/Red Seal, 4.5" swivel jaw, 7" opening, 3.5" depth, swivel base, 60 lbs
Red Seal 110 66: American Scale/Red Seal, 6" jaw, 24" length, 13 1/2" height, swivel base (looks like vise in post 13, but no swivel jaw)

No79: Swivel base, swivel jaw, 190lbs, 6” jaw, 11” opening (pic in post 13)
No78: same as No79, 5" jaw, opens 11", 11 5/8 H, 26" length, 120lbs
No?: fixed base, 8 1/4 jaw, 36" length, see pics here
No88(?): AM Scale / Red Seal, 8 3/8" jaw, 350lbs, 34" overall length, 16" high, handle 25 1/2" [ebay listing said it had Coaly & Co.,KC Mo on one side, but the pic shows AM SCALE CO]

No22: 3 1/2" jaw, pipe jaws, 17" length, 10" height
No23A: see above, 4.5" jaw, pipe jaws, swivel base
No25: 6" jaw, pipe jaws, 26" length, 15 1/2" height, ~200lb

 

[autopts]

Great filing! I'm gonna copy and save your whole list. By the way, you can add No. 25 also, a big almost 200 lb, 6" combo 26" long and 15 1/2" high.

 

[Catalyze]

Great looking vise and a treasure of information! 2 slices of Kansas City Pie for you.
Craig

 

[bl00]

Great filing! I'm gonna copy and save your whole list. By the way, you can add No. 25 also, a big almost 200 lb, 6" combo 26" long and 15 1/2" high.

Done. Did some web surfing and added a few more as well.

 

[carmad]

I was writing down the numbers for awhile when I'd see one on e-bay or Craigslist. There were several others that I recall seeing, but never wrote down.

No3: open screw, anvil horn, round knob
No4: open screw, anvil horn, round knob
No30: small vise, small anvil, horn, cylinder knob, open screw
No40: small vise w/pipe jaws, anvil, horn , open screw
No45: similar to No4
No50: open screw, swivel base, anvil/horn, 5” jaw, 40lbs
No50C (or 500): same as No50
No55: no info

No20: weird anvil vise wi/drilling hole through dyn jaw 43lbs
No5: same as no20 34.2lbs

No?: 8” jaw with 14” opening fixed base (looks kinda like mine above without the swivel parts)

No62C: American Scale/Red Seal, 3 1/2" jaw, 6 1/2" opening, swivel base
No66: American Scale/Red Star, 6” jaw, 14” opening
No?: American Scale/Red Seal, 4” jaw,
Red Seal 110 66: American Scale/Red Seal, 6" jaw, 24" length, 13 1/2" height, swivel base (looks like vise in post 13, but no swivel jaw)

No79: Swivel base, swivel jaw, 190lbs, 6” jaw, 11” opening (pic in post 13)
No78: same as No79, smaller opening 8" or so
No23A: see above, 4.5" jaw, pipe jaws, swivel base
No25: 6" jaw, pipe jaws, 26" length, 15 1/2" height, ~200lb

This one had Red Seal, but a different company name. Not sure if the company was related or not, but it was a big 'un.
No88(?): Red Seal, 8 3/8" jaw, 350lbs, 34" overall length, 16" high, handle 25 1/2" Coaly & Co.,Kansas City

Thanks for the information.

I did fill and grind some of the casting defects in the vise with JB Weld, and got it primed and painted. Will post more pics when I get a chance.

 

[autopts]

Thanks for the information.

I did fill and grind some of the casting defects in the vise with JB Weld, and got it primed and painted. Will post more pics when I get a chance.

Funny, I have NO luck with JB Weld with vises. Great if it works for you.

 

[ZRX61]

Funny, I have NO luck with JB Weld with vises. Great if it works for you.

Whats the problem? I usually leave it a day or two to kick off & then hit it with a DA sander.

 

[autopts]

Whats the problem? I usually leave it a day or two to kick off & then hit it with a DA sander.

Maybe thats my problem, I leave it for 12 hours but it says it sets up quicker then that. I have some setting now, I'll leave it for a couple of days. Thanks

 

[carmad]

Let it set overnight or longer as previously stated. Works like a charm.

 

[carmad]

Finished up the painting yesterday, polished the handles, and re-assembled this morning. The paint does not have much of the hammer-tone to it, and just looks glossy, but I am satisfied with the result.
This was a fun project, I think I have Visitis. Already have a really nice Paramo No6 lined up, its in fantastic condition, and only needs to be cleaned and polished, will pick it up next week, not bad for $20.
Greased and oiled, just need to mount it on my welding table.

 

[autopts]

Finished up the painting yesterday, polished the handles, and re-assembled this morning. The paint does not have much of the hammer-tone to it, and just looks glossy, but I am satisfied with the result.
This was a fun project, I think I have Visitis. Already have a really nice Paramo No6 lined up, its in fantastic condition, and only needs to be cleaned and polished, will pick it up next week, not bad for $20.
Greased and oiled, just need to mount it on my welding table.

One very nice restore!!

 

[Catalyze]

Great effort and outcome! It's always nice to see an old USA vise sitting tall. 2 helpings of ribs for you this weekend!
Craig

 

[autopts]

Great effort and outcome! It's always nice to see an old USA vise sitting tall. 2 helpings of ribs for you this weekend!
Craig

Pie? Now Ribs? Your mighty generous with other peoples food!!

 

[carmad]

Thanks guys, I'll take the ribs.

 

[Vise-Roy]

I might have posted these elsewhere in this forum (can't find them this morning if I did), but here's an American Scale #20 at my mother-in-law's house that I refurbished. I didn't weigh it, but it sure feels a lot lighter than the 43 pounds in the list of American Scale vises.

 

[Outlawmws]

Finished up the painting yesterday, polished the handles, and re-assembled this morning. The paint does not have much of the hammer-tone to it, and just looks glossy, but I am satisfied with the result.
This was a fun project, I think I have Visitis. Already have a really nice Paramo No6 lined up, its in fantastic condition, and only needs to be cleaned and polished, will pick it up next week, not bad for $20.
Greased and oiled, just need to mount it on my welding table.

Nice job (A little late)

For the hammer tone, I discovered recently that it has to go on VERY thick for god Hammer tone effect. the problem there is keeping it form running. multiple coats in rapid order seems to help.

I did a tool box recently, and two of the drawer fronts probably need re-shot, but that is mostly for the feel of the surface, it feels finely rough compared to the other three drawers.

 

[papersax]

I have a similar vise. My dad had it. I don't know how old it is. The manufacturer is listed as "American Scale & Vise" Model 23A. It could certainly use reburbishing. I'm not the guy to do it. Any ideas as to value or where to sell something like this.

 

[htemmons]

Mine is a no. 77 and is 4.5 inch with aluminum jaws. Had it for 60 years. In great condition except I lost the swivel locking bolt and nut many years ago. It is so heavy I can do many things with it the way it is.

 

[G-ManBart]

Okay vise addicts, I've got some data for you.

I picked up this 8" American Scale today and I honestly can't tell whether it's a No. 58 or No. 68 based on the way they stamped it. The first number looks like a light strike 5 followed by a heavy strike 6....weird. The jaws at 8" wide, the jaws open up 16", the overall length from front of spindle to end of the slide is 30 1/2" and it weighed 237lbs on the bathroom scale. It has three mounting holes, but there is also a threaded hole in the center of the base for a swivel. The base had a light industrial green color on it...sort of like a primer...not sure what the original colors were since this was clearly painted (slide is painted).

 

[Outlawmws]

BART! Good for you! Were you able to get them to bend on the price?

That number!... I agree it's an over strike. I'd say the 5 was struck after the 6, so 58, but a catalog would verify my "ejmucated guess"

Very glad you were able to pull that score off!

 

[G-ManBart]

BART! Good for you! Were you able to get them to bend on the price?

That number!... I agree it's an over strike. I'd say the 5 was struck after the 6, so 58, but a catalog would verify my "ejmucated guess"

Very glad you were able to pull that score off!

Thanks! I was going to try and get him to come down, but he was having the sale all weekend, and I didn't want to have to make yet another trip after waiting, and risk someone else jumping on it.

I keep going back and forth as to how the numbers should be. It does seem that the 6 is a heavier strike, and the 5 more closely matches the 8, but it's really hard to say. I just changed the orientation of the number pic to make it easier to look at....still hard to say.

 

[drivesitfar]

GMan: neither 58 or 68 are on the list of American scale vises on post #91 on the vise repair 101 thread. here's the link:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252830&page=160

so since you posted a 8 inch 250 pound vise on a 4.5 inch American scale vise thread instead of the main vise thread where everyone told you to buy it what else did you buy at that sale?

WELL DONE and hope your back is ok because it looks like you hauled it home in one piece.