Americans will do ANYTHING to avoid the metric system

[rabidsquirrel]

The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World Paperback – May 7, 2019

by Simon Winchester (Author)

Thanks!

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[HenryAZ]

Does anyone here know what the definition of one inch is? As in, what is the inch, and how is that unit defined?


Hate to break your big ol Merican hearts...

One inch is defined as precisely 25.4 mm!

You were using the metric system the whole time, and you didn’t even know it!

Only since 1959. In 1958, the International Committee on Weights and Measures recommended the meter be defined in atomic terms. The NBS (Now NIST) accepted that in 1959, and the yard became defined as 0.9144 meters, and the inch 1/36th of an international yard (equivalent to 2.54 centimeters). The inch in history has had several definitions, including the width of an average man's thumb.

 

[Farmall450]

I'm still getting used to switching from BWS to SAE

But seriously, its silly the US doesn't switch to metric. Any engineering calculation is easier in SI units. The base units, meter, second, kilogram, ampere, mole, candela, kelvin, can all be traced to something physical.

If anyone is interested in how units were derived, and the history of machine tool tolerance, this is a very good book. The author starts with John Wilkenson's machining of cannons to what was then an unheard of tolerance of 0.1 inch or the thickness of a shilling coin. Each chapter goes into the next level of machining tolerance, chapters are titled Tolerance 0.1, Tolerance 0.01, etc.

The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World Paperback – May 7, 2019
by Simon Winchester (Author)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062652567/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Yeah, gotta love 1.27cm pipe.

Neither is easier if you're familiar with them. It would be a lot harder in many fields where historically, they've used freedom units.

 

[tym]

A 455grammer avec Fromage.

No. It's a Royale with Cheese. Hamburgers are the cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast.

 

[Nineeightyone]

I'm awful at math, so I like the metric system:

Bolt head on the car looks kinda big, but not lug bolt big.
Go grab a 14mm.
14mm is a bit too small.
Go grab a 15mm.
15mm fits nice and snug, remove 15mm bolt.

Conversely, working in freedom units:
Lawn mower needs tightened up because it was found on the side of the road and everything is rattling loose. Bolt looks kind of big, not too big.
9/16" is too big.
What's below 9/16"?
Count down. 8/16".
Math. 8/16 == 4/8 == 1/2 (yep I picked the easy example)
Go find the 1/2" tucked away in the SAEtan drawer.
Find out 1/2" is still too big.
Count back up to get to 16ths. 8/16" -1/16" == 7/16".
Find the 7/16". Too small, get annoyed and curse freedom units, and lawnmowers (yard work *****).
Try the 1/2" again. 1/2" doesn't fit right.
Go get the 12mm, snug fit. Determine lawnmower is metric.
Go inside and have a beer, too much effort for a godforsaken lawn.

 

[unknownroad]

What do you call a 2 x 4 in metric? 50 x 100? 38.1 x 88.9?

Well, it can't make any less sense than calling it a 2 x 4 when it's only ~1.5" x 3.5" Then we'll measure plywood in 32nds, because that makes for nice intuitive math...


"Gee, I'm out of 4x4s, so I'll just screw a couple 2x4s together... fuuuuck."
Me, far more often than I'd like to admit

 

[Milton Shaw]

Metric will never work in America, 36-24-36 just sounds a lot better than 91-61-91. Inches make a lot more sense in some measurements.

 

[Handyandy23]

When I was in Europe, when people use Meters, I just roughly convert that to yards with 1:1. 100M would be 100 yards in my head.

Anyway, I just did a google convert: 100M is 109 yards.
Golf distance needs more precision?
I don’t play golf much, (this is just an honest question) so if I est 9 yards short, the swing would be off ?

Yes it does need more precision than that. For me each club going down in number is about another 10-15 yards in distance. So a full swing with a 9 iron goes say 120 yards, same swing with my 8 iron goes 130-135 yards.

So being off by the difference between meters and yards is being off by about 'one full club'.

 

[mikehaugen]

Yes it does need more precision than that. For me each club going down in number is about another 10-15 yards in distance. So a full swing with a 9 iron goes say 120 yards, same swing with my 8 iron goes 130-135 yards.



So being off by the difference between meters and yards is being off by about 'one full club'.

I don't golf, but I guarantee if I did I would have nowhere near that consistency... Impressive

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[Handyandy23]

Well, it can't make any less sense than calling it a 2 x 4 when it's only ~1.5" x 3.5" Then we'll measure plywood in 32nds, because that makes for nice intuitive math...


"Gee, I'm out of 4x4s, so I'll just screw a couple 2x4s together... fuuuuck."
Me, far more often than I'd like to admit

This is very true! The whole lumber measurement system is a huge mess. Very few things are 'true' measurements with lumber, except when you get into some of the man-made materials like MDF, where of course it is now true-size.

Canada is officially metric but just like Australia, we still get stuck with a mix of metric and SAE sizing depending on what the product is, mostly because the US is too stubborn to change and they control certain industries. And quite frankly, as much as I dislike the weird sizes of lumber, and measuring things in 16ths and 32nds, it would be quite a mess to overhaul the lumber system at this point.

Would you keep current lumber standard sizes the same, and convert to metric (a 2x4, which is actually 1.5x3.5, would be approx 3.8cm x 8.9cm true size), or would you make it a 4cm x 9cm and slightly change the standard size and call it a 4x9? But then what do you do when adding on to existing old-standard framing in a house?

I am just reserved to having to know both. It would be great to hit the reset button and start over with one clean system for everyone, but at this point I don't mind measuring and cutting my 2x4 to 360cm in length.

 

[KenC]

This is very true! The whole lumber measurement system is a huge mess. Very few things are 'true' measurements with lumber, except when you get into some of the man-made materials like MDF, where of course it is now true-size.

Unless that man-made material is intended to be used for sheathing/decking, then it is 'sized for spacing', so undersized. 4x8 becomes 47 7/8 x 95 7/8!

 

[dr_clyde]

My problem is the lack of available hardware, fittings, supplies, materials and measuring tools available to us in metric.

I cannot purchase any common building materials, fasteners, or common machinery calibrated in metric.

We have a massive industrial legacy that would take decades to switch, and would cost billions of dollars, and even then would still be here in some ways.

I'll happily switch to metric when I can buy everything I need for a project in metric. From my steel sheet, to my fasteners to my welding wire to my hand tools.

Ever try to machine parts in metric when all your tools, equipment, and entire shop is set up to do a different type of measuring? Huge pain in the ***. You have to convert everything. Every. Single. Thing. Sheet metal is sold in gauge thickness, pipe in IPS and bar stock is all in inch.

 

[dr_clyde]

It would take an act of congress to switch, and they can't even agree on a budget so there's no chance we change something that big.

Metric is superior in every way. But we're stuck with inches for the foreseeable future. Which is honestly ok with me, I'm set up for it.

 

[Aaron_W]

That's because our system of measurement is garbage.

Yes the usual lies from the metric fanatics.

The US has been a metric country since 1893 and the Metric system has been a legally protected system of weights and measure in the US since 1866.

No nation is 100% metric, not even France where the Metric System was invented. All nations and industries continue to use some non-metric standards out of practicality. The US just happens to be on the lower end of the scale in certain high visibility areas. Interesting how often the UK's continued use of Mile for speed and distance gets "overlooked".


In medicine the English Birmingham Wire Gauge is still used to measure needles and catheters because is is easier to use a sizing system of 00000 - 36 rather than a bunch of seemingly random metric measurements from 12.7mm to 0.1mm.

Much easier to say give me an 20 gauge IV than a 0.9081mm IV.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

In woodworking, the old imperial system kind of makes sense, they didn't really measure, they made things to the mark and then made the next piece to fit. Furniture was built around the human body.If you don't believe me, look at the crudeness of their measuring tools like squares. They had good dividers though. Besides the English imperial, the French, the Japanese and even Russians all had their own versions of it.

Machinery is now designed and built mostly in metric. The common bearings are all metric, getting an inch is a special order.

 

[kythri]

My problem is the lack of available hardware, fittings, supplies, materials and measuring tools available to us in metric.

I cannot purchase any common building materials, fasteners, or common machinery calibrated in metric.

Wilco, a local farm co-op around here, has giant Hillman displays, with a HUGE metric assortment, which is really nice, but the ridiculous part is that the fasteners are sold by piece, rather than by the pound for SAE.

usboltkits.com / boltdepot.com show me that metric fasteners really shouldn't be really any different in price, so, eh?

As such, unless I need to buy a metric fastener specifically to replace something in, say, one of my vehicles, I buy SAE.

I just replaced the bumpers on my Explorer, and used SAE for the new bumpers for this very reason.

 

[dr_clyde]

Wilco, a local farm co-op around here, has giant Hillman displays, with a HUGE metric assortment, which is really nice, but the ridiculous part is that the fasteners are sold by piece, rather than by the pound for SAE.

usboltkits.com / boltdepot.com show me that metric fasteners really shouldn't be really any different in price, so, eh?

As such, unless I need to buy a metric fastener specifically to replace something in, say, one of my vehicles, I buy SAE.

I just replaced the bumpers on my Explorer, and used SAE for the new bumpers for this very reason.

Fasteners aren’t as rare, but still hard to find at the same prevalence and price as SAE.

 

[ezover]

So, I have a question. I know my buddies and I and I assume other childish men give their buddies **** over how small their junk must be somethimes in comparison or inch’s and replying with how many inches we have swinging.

How do you do that with the metric system. Telling someone they must have a 12mm ***** just dose not sound right and how would I reply with sheet I have 12 inches swinging with the metric system ?

 

[kythri]

Well, you're missing the critical element of rhyming your insults.

12mm ***** should be "twelve millimeter peter" - much more effective.

 

[canuckian]

I use whatever makes sense to me or whatever the common measurement system is in my area for what I'm quantifying

A few examples....The only length/distance measurement I use that's metric is KM. Everything else is inches and feet. I can't visualize a mile no matter how hard I try but I can visualize 1/4 mile only because I've used it in racing as a point of reference. Oddly enough, driving distance around here is commonly expressed in terms of time (2 hr drive).Weight for me is measured in Lbs. Fuel volume for me is Liters but I refer to my fuel cans' volumes as gallons. Alcoholic beverages are measured in ounces but non alcoholic ones and milk are in Milliliters and Liters. I could go on but you I'm sure you all get the gist.

I'm sure my age (48) and where I grew up (small isolated fishing town on the east side of Canada) have a lot to do with how I was exposed to and learned the metric system. Larger and more connected city centers would have exposed people my age to more metric at a younger age. Hell, when I was growing up, rope length and water depth was measured in fathoms. I still roughly convert to fathoms in my head when it comes to those 2 things.

All that being said, metric always has and always will make more sense to me when it comes to wrench and socket sizes.

 

[jasonphelps]

Metric is better? Someone better tell the UK to stop measuring using 5280 feet.

 

[ezover]

Well, you're missing the critical element of rhyming your insults.

12mm ***** should be "twelve millimeter peter" - much more effective.

Ahh thank you, I want to have my insults ready Incase we convert.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Yeah, but what do they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in France, Jules?

The McRoyal. Really and truly. (and no, I have no freaking idea where McD came up with that... except even over there, it's still a meal you want to flush...)

I just realized - all those 10mm sockets that disappeared over the decades - probably emigrated to Canada when I wasn't looking.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

In my youth, as an apprentice carpenter, we had to be able to use 100ths of a foot for elevations, that's how elevations were marked in those days. That was pure silliness.

 

[buckeyeultra]

Just throwing my two cents in here. I live in the world of heavy industry, steel/paper/cement...I prefer metric when talking fasteners and tooling, think it keeps everything fairly simple. I dont really mind metric for distance really either, specifically km or km/h.

BUT, in my simple mind, when we’re talkin about fitting machine components together, or any small measurements for that matter, Imperial is the way to go. For example set end play to .032”. That makes way more sense to me than .8mm. I just find it to be too coarse. Apparently all of the old machine tools from the US have long since been replaced here and shipped around the world. I was shocked to hear an Aussie buddy of mine only works in imperial at his shop...mainly bc the tooling available was wwII era US stuff.

 

[dutchgray]

Now I am ambivalent about the Metric System generally, but golf, baseball, and football (not soccer!) must be measured in Feet and Yards regardless of where it's being played. Otherwise, you're playing some boring, obscure foreign game like soccer or cricket. Whoever thought that a golf course should be laid out and measured in meters was clearly NOT a golfer.

You do know soccer and cricket use pitches and grounds that are specified in yards, not metric, so they can vary in size and in terms of cricket don't even have to be the same shape, but they are imperial.
Also us brits like to be stubborn and stick to certain imperial units, but can you imagine trying to change an entire countries road signs over from miles to kilometres, would takes decades probably and then they would be a lot messed up, and you can still find mile stones about the place that are hundreds of years old.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Yeah, gotta love 1.27cm pipe.

Neither is easier if you're familiar with them. It would be a lot harder in many fields where historically, they've used freedom units.

What the ????? is a "freedom unit"?

Something to measure the teeth on the saw blade gradnma baked into a cake? A volumetric measurement for small apartment rented by kids when they leave home? A formula of size of motorcycle divided by highway miles ridden times the number of cops outridden?

 

[Mr. T]

I had a problem at work with my tape measures always being “borrowed” never to find there way home. Now I’m in no position to complain because the company buys our tools.

I’m young enough to be flexible though. Also 99% of the machinery I work on is metric.

So, about three years ago I ordered myself metric tape measures. Don’t you know it, still have ‘em.

 

[fasteddie]

I can work in metric, after all it's just a number like imperial. My problem is I can't visualize a metric dimension. 1/4" or 1/2" I get, 3mm means nothing to me, I have to go look at a metric ruler or convert it online. It's like trying to think in a foreign language you never learned. The only metrics I have a handle on is kilos, oh and I know a meter is something like a yard more or less.

 

[Lassen Forge]

An inch is the width of one of my thumbs (left) at it's absolute widest point, a cm is the width of the pinky on the same hand. 2.54 pinkys = 1 thumb. And 1 meter is one pace.

I used to teach hazmat response, and when they say the exacuation distance for such and such is 150 meters (and people scratch their heads) I tell them envision 150 large steps away. And the lights go on....

Either system is fine - it's when you mix them up things get problematic. (Dude, have you seen my 10 inch socket? I had it here a minute ago...)

I just looked, the largest I could find was an 8" socket.... 2 1/2" drive. A mere $10K and change... each.

 

[WittHay]

The metric system was introduced here over 40 years ago. Was at the local tool store today. Guy in his twenty's looking to buy a socket set. Heard him telling the salesmen "I need SAE, only the auto guys use metric"

 

[Roundhouse]

The only metric that’s ever caught on in the US is the 9 mm


And just a reminder
There’s two kinds of countries
Those that use the metric system
And
Those that have put men on the moon

 

[tym]

What the ????? is a "freedom unit"?

I think it's defined in the appendix of the Murricuh Math textbook.

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

If we have to adapt to the metric system to make things easier internationally, everyone should use English as the official language. No exceptions.

I'd gladly make that trade

 

[PugetDude]

How many meters tall is the statue of fake liberty ?

Is the fake one, the one in Las Vegas?

How many freedums tall is that?

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...
...(of the metric system!) ”

 

[jasonphelps]

The only metric that’s ever caught on in the US is the 9 mm


And just a reminder
There’s two kinds of countries
Those that use the metric system
And
Those that have put men on the moon

I agree, although 10mm is making a bit of a comback

 

[rainer124]

I can't handle imperial sizes. Metric ones are much simpler for me.
Nineeightyone did an excellent explanation of the Situation.

When I was in the United Kingdom not so long ago I tried to buy a imperial tap and die set- they told me they don't have it on stock and needs to order it because they use the metric ones also since years.

Also some items in Germany are named with imperial sizes.
Examples: we buy socket sets with 1/4 Inch, 3/8 or 1/2 Inch drive but the sockets iself are metric ( i need a 10mm socket with 1/4 Inch drive) nearly nobody ever will say he needs 6,3mm drive
Water piping is mentioned in inches.
Sometimes a pipe wrench , hoses and seldom cableas are mentinoed in inches

 

[Tonyuk]

The only metric that’s ever caught on in the US is the 9 mm


And just a reminder
There’s two kinds of countries
Those that use the metric system
And
Those that have put men on the moon

Is that why NASA started using the metric system before 1990 then?

https://www.space.com/3332-nasa-finally-metric.html

 

[Shane6377]

I use both SAE and metric on a regular basis. If you struggle with the math involved with SAE fractions then you really need to take a 4th grade math course.


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[mikehaugen]

Yeah but with common core it will take you longer to come up with an answer than to try 4 different wrenches. [emoji23]

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