Building a 104"x40" pole barn. Amish is building the shell and my son and I are prepping the floor for a spring pour. Everything I've read and have seen has me pouring to the top of the skirt board. But I noticed that they installed the entry door 4" into the skirt board, which kills my plans of pouring flush to the top of the skirt board. What do you guys think? My plan was to split the barn in half, garage end, plastic/rebar/6" pour. The shop end plastic/2" insulation/rebar/4" pour. I'm not a builder, and pretty much everything I know has come from forums. I appreciate any advice. Thanks
Amish changed my plans! (Floor)
- Thread starter SVash
- Start date
383
Well-known member
Is the bottom of your overhead door openings at the same level? Usually your siding extends below the top of your skirtboard, so if you pour an apron outside of your doors, you want your floor to be lower than the top of the skirtboard so your siding isn't in the concrete.
Finish floor height should be determined before any doors are framed.
Finish floor height should be determined before any doors are framed.
Did you ask them how its typically finished ?
There is no one way to build ... in fact -- I have found all too often the "this is the way we always do it" is often not the best way. I see this on the forums all the time.
I'm into historic buildings -- it's interesting to look over and see old building and barns. Obviously when looking at a 150 year old barn -- it survived. Why?
There is no one way to build ... in fact -- I have found all too often the "this is the way we always do it" is often not the best way. I see this on the forums all the time.
I'm into historic buildings -- it's interesting to look over and see old building and barns. Obviously when looking at a 150 year old barn -- it survived. Why?
Apparently, you and the builders are working off different plans. You need to stop their work and have a conversation before things get worse.
I wouldn't be surprised if your builder is hard headed and won't change his ways.
I wouldn't be surprised if your builder is hard headed and won't change his ways.
timewarp
Well-known member
I'm on the other side of the country, but around here the floor is not poured to the top of the skirt board. If the floor is level with the top and you leave the building unfinished when you roll or store anything against the wall it's going to go over the skirt board and dent your metal skin. Also if you hose down the floor to wash something the water could run between the skirt board and the metal. If you are finishing the interior the skirt board above the floor gives you something to attach to also.
Augus7us
Well-known member
Mine is like that. It is poured near the top of the first banding board.
58Yeoman
Well-known member
I would've thought that the lower board IS your skirt board. Am I wrong?
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
That's all you can do. They'll either agree and reinstall the door, or explain why it should be done the way it was done.
In the meantime you'll get pages of all kinds of responses, but they won't matter much until you can find out what the builders were thinking.
(I'm sure you'll get many responses about using the inch mark (") instead of feet mark (') in your dimensions.)
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
It's because the concrete is only going to come up to the top of the first skirt board, which is even with the bottom of the door.
shelteredV
Well-known member
I tend to agree with this^^^
Marctrees
Well-known member
Not being a concrete guy, I would think it is easiest to ride the top of skirt board w the screed.
Sidewalks are usually done that way.
But, there is a second method where they somehow do it anywhere to any elevation, irregardless of the "top" edge of a form.
Both the Amish need to be asked, AND your proposed concrete man.
On my recent PB build, we used treated 2x10 for mud girt, slab elevation about 2/3 up the board.
Marc
Sidewalks are usually done that way.
But, there is a second method where they somehow do it anywhere to any elevation, irregardless of the "top" edge of a form.
Both the Amish need to be asked, AND your proposed concrete man.
On my recent PB build, we used treated 2x10 for mud girt, slab elevation about 2/3 up the board.
Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
That is very probable.
The seam between the two boards may act as the "snapped line"
The most important thing is that the mud girt be LEVEL, assuming you are not sloping along a wall.
That said, the concrete guys will pour to an elevation mark you provide.
Marc
bob15
Well-known member
Marctrees
Well-known member
After my mud girt was installed, before the concrete guys came, I took a builders level and checked in various places.
Max deviation of the top of mud girt was +- 1/4" for a 35 x 38 slab.
Could be even better, but I thought pretty close enough especially for being done by a fast track low bid pole builder company.
Marc
Max deviation of the top of mud girt was +- 1/4" for a 35 x 38 slab.
Could be even better, but I thought pretty close enough especially for being done by a fast track low bid pole builder company.
Marc
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Firebrick43
Well-known member
Why??? They don't believe in having their homes connected to the grid or having electric lights. Their is no issues with have power tools, machine tools, or even engine driven welders or generators to run electric tools.
Jinks
Well-known member
Kind of a small building isn't?
8.6' x 3.3'........
I agree, not worth the worry..........
Jinks
Well-known member
bad_idea
Well-known member
I did a little research into pole barns (no actual experience, went stick built). I believe the Amish are doing it in an ideal way. Better to have the slab half way up the skirt board, for reasons already mentioned.
One more detail on the floor you may not be aware of - a pocket for the roll up door. When the concrete guy did my floor he laid a 2x12 flat in the door openings even with the top of the floor. This created a pocket that the door seal sets in, sealing against the bottom of the pocket. Driveway is poured even with bottom step of the pocket. Keeps wind driven rain from being pushed into the garage. Especially nice in my shop because i had the floor poured flat and level, any water that gets driven in will not run back out.
One more detail on the floor you may not be aware of - a pocket for the roll up door. When the concrete guy did my floor he laid a 2x12 flat in the door openings even with the top of the floor. This created a pocket that the door seal sets in, sealing against the bottom of the pocket. Driveway is poured even with bottom step of the pocket. Keeps wind driven rain from being pushed into the garage. Especially nice in my shop because i had the floor poured flat and level, any water that gets driven in will not run back out.
58Yeoman
Well-known member
^^Nice detail.^^
I slope the slab out from where the garage door will set on the floor. That way no lip to drive up. Never had an issue with driving rain doing this. Easier to do as well.
Leaflessshadetree
Well-known member
When my contractor (who is not Amish) poured the foundation. They left out one man door, put the other on the wrong side and at the wrong height. Also made the garage doors 10'wide instead of 12'.
He then came back to cut in the forgotten opening and cut it to the wrong height.
I agree that the top of the lower board looks right for floor height.
He then came back to cut in the forgotten opening and cut it to the wrong height.
I agree that the top of the lower board looks right for floor height.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Amish will run diesel equipment. And they WILL run electric lights IF they are ran off of a diesel generator. Up north of me, there are quite a few Pennsylvania Amish that have very nice businesses. Many are into the lawnmower, chainsaw, powerwasher type of business, but their electric for everything runs off of larger generators.
Marctrees
Well-known member
"I slope the slab out from where the garage door will set on the floor. That way no lip to drive up. Never had an issue with driving rain doing this. Easier to do as well."
Absolutely critical for the abovementioned slope to start an inch or two INSIDE the building of the INSIDE edge of the door.
Marc
Absolutely critical for the abovementioned slope to start an inch or two INSIDE the building of the INSIDE edge of the door.
Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
Ya have to to make it effective.
If the break starts at the outside edge, or maybe even under center of door, rain running down the door face can still hang on underside of door and possibly come inside.
Marc
If the break starts at the outside edge, or maybe even under center of door, rain running down the door face can still hang on underside of door and possibly come inside.
Marc
stuckinohio
Well-known member
I used to deliver for FedEx north of you in Logan county. I've been to many of their places, some nice, some not so nice. I gotta chuckle out of the one house near Belle Center with the window a/c unit.
Marctrees
Well-known member
It seems to me the "step" method would be helpful in Windstorm areas.
I know when we had a previous building on the Gulf coast, it was done that way.
Not so much that it will reduce any water blown in under door, but mostly cause it provides a support behind door from bowing in during high winds.
Marc
I know when we had a previous building on the Gulf coast, it was done that way.
Not so much that it will reduce any water blown in under door, but mostly cause it provides a support behind door from bowing in during high winds.
Marc
bad_idea
Well-known member
I'm in a high wind area. Next week the doors get installed on the building. I look forward to the first good rain/wind storm we get to see how the pockets perform. I am not looking forward to pushing cars up the small step. I plan to weld up a ramp to fit in the pocket for such times. Drop ramp in place, push car, restore ramp.
Marctrees
Well-known member
bad idea - When closed, does the door bear against the vertical step ?
Maybe not actually scraping the vertical drop, but like within 1/2" or so?
Again, so it can act as a backing when door blows inward.
Also, being in wind area..
Did you get the Hurricane ribs installed ?
If not, you still should be able to add them no prob.
Marc
Maybe not actually scraping the vertical drop, but like within 1/2" or so?
Again, so it can act as a backing when door blows inward.
Also, being in wind area..
Did you get the Hurricane ribs installed ?
If not, you still should be able to add them no prob.
Marc
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
North of Bellefontaine, up towards Belle Center is Pennsylvania Amish. Go a few miles west around Degraff and towards the Lake....Indiana Amish. Different as day and night.
bad_idea
Well-known member
The door should (not installed yet to see) be within 1/2" or so to the vertical drop. The doors are rated for high wind. They are a three panel door (exterior finish, insulation, interior finished panel) - very solid door.
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Marctrees
Well-known member
If rated for high wind, they will have the hurricane ribs on almost all panels, midpoint.
Simple formed sheet metal that acts as spine or backbone to reduce door bowing in.
Marc
Simple formed sheet metal that acts as spine or backbone to reduce door bowing in.
Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
So that will allow the door to bow in 1/2" in center max at the bottom...
Not bad, sounds good.
Marc
Not bad, sounds good.
Marc
stuckinohio
Well-known member
Yup. I heard the Degraff area Amish referred to as the "dirty" Amish many times. Lol
Door would be froze down here. Will you have to keep cleaning that out ?
Or maybe I don’t understand.
bad_idea
Well-known member
The bottom of the pocket is even with the driveway. The pocket is basically a step into the garage at the door opening.