Amp imbalance at weather head.

[honda1998civic]

So I’ve been experiencing flickering intermittently in my whole house. Haven’t added anything new other than a refrigerator about a year ago. AEP came out and replaced the weather head connections but he check the amp load and told me there was an amp imbalance. So it was my house that was causing the flickering. 16.3 amps on One leg. 23.5 amps on other leg. And nuetral has 7 amps. Which he said the nuetral should always be zero. So is this just as easy as swapping my breakers to other leg to divide amp load more evenly? Would amp imbalance cause flickering or is this potentially a different problem?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

why would neutral be zero? is the transformer behind your meter? are all your loads 220V loads?

 

[honda1998civic]

I just wrote down everything he was saying. He said he had 32 years experience in electrical versus my 0 years so I took for granted everything he was saying..

 

[ard]

You need to log the voltages at the main.

You want 120V steady...if you get deviations, specifically when large loads turn on in the house (motors, pumps, AC), then your transformer (actually AEPs transformer) has taken a dump.


Oh 16.3+7=23.5 or pretty close. The amps sound fine, or rather not the cause of flickering.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear.

in an ideal world, neutral current would be zero. of course, that would require you to run two vacuum cleaners on opposite sides of the transformer when you wanted to vacuum.

so maybe in an ideal world, it doesn't matter. run one vacuum instead of two because that's silly. The idea is load in your house is spread across both sides so "on average" it evens out. in practice it never evens out exactly.

an imbalance itself doesn't cause flickering.

 

[teamextreme]

As said above, current imbalance won't cause flickering lights. You do want your loads balanced between phases and as said, ideally your neutral current as close to zero as possible, but we're talking "roughly" balanced. This is the real world and there's no way to get anywhere near close. At 7 amps of imbalance you're perfectly fine. Flickering lights are quite often caused by a loose neutral somewhere.

 

[honda1998civic]

I see. And yes I’ve always been told not to believe everything I hear and yet I fall for it time and time again. So shame on me, I know.

With the ac unit on and power restored it was showing 124 volts on one leg and 122 volts on other leg of breaker panel from meter. Then that’s when he went to check amps and said it seems like problem was on the house side. He did mention he would check back with me on Monday and if still flickering which it is he would call in to aep and ask them to put some kind of voltage tracker to monitor flickering and find out the cause.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So I’ve been experiencing flickering intermittently in my whole house. Haven’t added anything new other than a refrigerator about a year ago. AEP came out and replaced the weather head connections but he checked the amp load and told me there was an amp imbalance. So it was my house that was causing the flickering. 16.3 amps on One leg. 23.5 amps on other leg. And neutral has 7 amps. Which he said the neutral should always be zero. So is this just as easy as swapping my breakers to other leg to divide amp load more evenly? Would amp imbalance cause flickering or is this potentially a different problem?

Geez that lineman or whoever he is, is ignorant. I wonder if he is an apprentice...

A load imbalance will NOT cause flickering. Flickering is caused by a short duration voltage sag.

Balanced service/zero neutral load is a theoretical ideal which is never attainable.

An imbalance of 7 amps is nothing.

Telling you that the neutral current should always be zero is wrong.

A loose neutral COULD cause flickering but usually the flickering is caused by voltage sag due to high resistant connection, bad transformer or high voltage/primary side voltage sag.

What you need to do is log the voltage measurements. Do you have a multimeter that has a min/max/avg option?

I had an issue at a previous house with voltage drop when the garbage disposal was ran. Only way i knew was the lights on the same leg as the garbage disposal were dimming. I logged the voltage for a day and one leg was dropping down to 100v. I called MID, troubleshooter came out, showed him my meter logs, he said wow. Got in his bucket truck checked the transformer lugs, they were fine. then he checked the splices at the pony pole and nearly burned his hand cause one of the splices was really hot. turns out it was bad so he fixed it and voltage sag went away.

 

[Marctrees]

Yup, POCO guy is not fully competent.

Chances are there is an imperfect connection causing this.

Visually carefully study alllll connections for evidence of heat damage.

All the service connections in the meter and panel need to be checked/ re snugged.

And that needs to be done either w all power off, or by an experienced Electrician.


And ALLLLLL the individual branch ckt conections in panel.

To avoid complications of various types, do the latter action w the main OFF.

And DON'T DON'T DON'T start movin **** around.


Really, wisest to call real life Experienced Electrician to handle it.

If problem continues, bus bars need to be checked...still problem after that then the POCO needs to send another guy to check their feed as in Wylie's post above.

Marc

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yup, POCO guy is not fully competent.

Chances are there is an imperfect connection causing this.

Visually carefully study alllll connections for evidence of heat damage.

All the service connections in the meter and panel need to be checked/ re snugged.

And that needs to be done either w all power off, or by an experienced Electrician.


And ALLLLLL the individual branch ckt conections in panel.

To avoid complications of various types, do the latter action w the main OFF.

And DON'T DON'T DON'T start movin **** around.


Really, wisest to call real life Experienced Electrician to handle it.

If problem continues, bus bars need to be checked...still problem after that then the POCO needs to send another guy to check their feed as in Wylie's post above.

Marc

Thanks. I forgot to put that in my previous comments. Yes all the connections in the panel need to be checked first. It could be a branch circuit issue.

 

[Jim greengo]

I'd start checking for loose connections in panel

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I see. And yes I’ve always been told not to believe everything I hear and yet I fall for it time and time again. So shame on me, I know.

With the ac unit on and power restored it was showing 124 volts on one leg and 122 volts on other leg of breaker panel from meter. Then that’s when he went to check amps and said it seems like problem was on the house side. He did mention he would check back with me on Monday and if still flickering which it is he would call in to aep and ask them to put some kind of voltage tracker to monitor flickering and find out the cause.

I strongly suggest you follow up on this. happened to me and it turned out to be a failing transformer in the neighboring subdivision or a bad breaker somewhere (big breaker on their end). two separate incidents and I don't remember details anymore. they did pull my meter and install a datalogger though.

 

[Lightman 1]

I'm a retired Lineman and I did service work and troubleshooting for the last 25 years of my 35 year career. Your amp readings look ok. The neutral carries the difference between the two, as yours reads. Remember that reading can change just as soon as a refrigerator or freezer cycles on or off. They very seldom will read even all of the time. He made a good start by changing the connections at the weathered but should have checked those at the pole too. And any other pole between you and the transformer. If you share a transformer with neighbors see if they are having problems.

It could also be a bad connection on your side of the meter. In the meter socket, in the panel or behind the breaker.

Right before I retired the company bought me a tool for troubleshooting bad service connections. It plugged into the meter socket and had two digital voltage readouts on it, one for each side. It had a 1500-1800 watt heater and a switch where you could move the load from side to side. I think it was called the Beast.

 

[TurnipTruck]

I just had some flickering, too. I measured 116-126 volts on one leg, and the wife got thrown off the treadmill when it slowed and sped. The poco came out and put the Beast in place of my meter and confirmed my voltage swings. They meggered the 0000 aluminum from the pole mounted transformer, but to do that, they had to disconnect from the transformer. He found a loose-feeling connection on the neutral post on the transformer itself. No flickers since.

 

[ard]

In defense of the poco guy.... maybe he knew he was dealing with an ignorant homeowner and decided to show off, throw some numbers around and sound important. Maybe throw shade on the home wiring (to avoid poco liability).

He DID say he'd come back and put a monitor on it, if it kept flickering. So its not like he really is ACTING incompetent- just BSing and talking out of school, as it were.

Just saying....

 

[u3b3rg33k]

In defense of the poco guy.... maybe he knew he was dealing with an ignorant homeowner and decided to show off, throw some numbers around and sound important. Maybe throw shade on the home wiring (to avoid poco liability).

He DID say he'd come back and put a monitor on it, if it kept flickering. So its not like he really is ACTING incompetent- just BSing and talking out of school, as it were.

Just saying....

that's not much of a defense. I've never found a need to lie to people to explain things to them. analogies, sure. misinformation, no.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

In defense of the poco guy.... maybe he knew he was dealing with an ignorant homeowner and decided to show off, throw some numbers around and sound important. Maybe throw shade on the home wiring (to avoid poco liability).

He DID say he'd come back and put a monitor on it, if it kept flickering. So its not like he really is ACTING incompetent- just BSing and talking out of school, as it were.

Just saying....

Wow thats some poor logic.

Using lies to combat ignorance?

Thats pretty dumb...

Your theory doesnt hold water

 

[ard]

I prolly shouldnt have used the word 'defense'....

Honestly lying, and knowing the truth may be worse than being ignorant.

 

[Marctrees]

OP says "WHOLE" house flickering.

So the problem is common to "ALL" ckts.

Meaning the bad connection will be "upstream" of the point common to "ALL" branch ckts...

So the problem is at or upstream of load side of main breaker or a joint anywhere up to Xformer.

Agree Gentlemen ?

I retract my previous comments about checking branch ckts ... not applicable because problem is whole house.

Lightman - Good explanatory post.

Marc

 

[MattT]

OP says "WHOLE" house flickering.

So the problem is common to "ALL" ckts.

Meaning the bad connection will be "upstream" of the point common to "ALL" branch ckts...

So the problem is at or upstream of load side of main breaker or a joint anywhere up to Xformer.

Could be "downstream" on the neutral anywhere from, or in, the panel on back to the transformer. You're also assuming that there are lighting circuits on both legs.

 

[Marctrees]

In a typical wired residence, yes mixed up either/or legs.

In most cases, in most homes, "General lighting" ckts feed lights, basic receptacles, usually but not always mixed together.

So, any and all recepts usually are on ckts w lights, ceptin kitchen, laundry. and any special use dedicated ckts.

In general.

Again, because OP said "Whole House", it is not a branch ckt problem.

Marc

 

[honda1998civic]

Ok. Thanks for all the posts folks. I will try to catch some voltage readings off main panel when I experience frequent flickering. Have not seen much flickering today but was non stop last night through heavy rain. I’ll post an update when I find something out

 

[ddawg16]

My neighbors love me.

I had a similar issue as wylie....I would turn on my saw in the garage, wife stuck her head out the window and told me every time I did that her computer reset.

I went to my panel....measured the voltage from neut to each leg....sure enough....turn the saw on and one leg would drop to about 100 and the other up over 130.

Called the PoCo the next morning....around noon the wife gets a knock on the door....PoCo guy says our transformer is going bad....they will be back soon....late that afternoon they replaced.

Pretty impressed how they did it with just come-alongs.....

Afterwards the neighbors thanked me....they had issues with their lights....thought it was their own wiring....non of them knew how to troubleshoot it. Once the transformer was replaced, all the flickering went away.

 

[TractorJeff]

Ok. Thanks for all the posts folks. I will try to catch some voltage readings off main panel when I experience frequent flickering. Have not seen much flickering today but was non stop last night through heavy rain. I’ll post an update when I find something out

Until a couple of rains ago (2 weeks?) I had frequent flickering, brownouts, lights out scenarios.
This time the guy came out, cut the tree tops out of the way to get to the transformer, monkeyed around, temporarily fixed it. Then came down to tell me that it must have been hit by lightening in its life as it had a hole in it! He said the Tree Trimmers would come out first, I told him he they have my permission to cut the trees off at ground level! They showed up at 3am and changed out the transformer!
I no longer have flickering nor brown outs just before the pole fuse would usually blow.....

 

[sberry]

My bud in town had a problem, the poco came out,, no problem. They try to say maybe it was his but his was in very good condition and it acted up when the wind blew. Finally fell down across the driveway in the parking lot.

 

[Marctrees]

Ok. Thanks for all the posts folks. I will try to catch some voltage readings off main panel when I experience frequent flickering. Have not seen much flickering today but was non stop last night through heavy rain. I’ll post an update when I find something out

So, that being the case, it at least SEEMS to evidence to be an outside problem.

And by outside, I mean line side of the Whead.

Starting w the POCO applied joints at you drip loop, going upstream.

If true, then totally a POCO issue.

Start there.

Marc

 

[Lightman 1]

Having shot trouble on this exact type of problem many times it sounds like its on what you'all are calling the POCO's side. It could be in the meter or the buss near the main breaker. But probably not. I always started by changing connections on both end of the service. If the service wire looked to be badly weathered I would change out the service. That is, if I could get my truck to the pole. Or I would plan to return with help. I would also look at the service if it ran through any trees and trim as necessary.

I realize that this sounds like better service than most of you expect to get from your POCO. It sounds kind of like I'm claiming to be better than I really was. I understand. But, you got to understand something. I worked alone in a small rural area. If I didn't fix the problem I was going to be the one to get the next call! It wasn't even a chance that it would be someone else because there weren't no one else. And it was probably going to be in the middle of the night or on a nice weekend afternoon when I was watching the kids play ball! So, I just did it!

Prolly more than you wanted to know about power company business!

 

[ard]

My neighbors love me.

I had a similar issue as wylie....I would turn on my saw in the garage, wife stuck her head out the window and told me every time I did that her computer reset.

I went to my panel....measured the voltage from neut to each leg....sure enough....turn the saw on and one leg would drop to about 100 and the other up over 130.

Called the PoCo the next morning....around noon the wife gets a knock on the door....PoCo guy says our transformer is going bad....they will be back soon....late that afternoon they replaced.

Pretty impressed how they did it with just come-alongs.....

Afterwards the neighbors thanked me....they had issues with their lights....thought it was their own wiring....non of them knew how to troubleshoot it. Once the transformer was replaced, all the flickering went away.

I had PRECISELY this issue. Run the 5HP cabinet saw, lights dimmed.

Poco wasn't Johnny on the spot, ( I had to prove it was them) but once they came out it was a bad transformer. (The guy used a thermal gun to find a hot spot on the case.). Replaced it same day. (It was Dec 31. I apologized for dragging them out on NY eve... Guys laughed, say no problem- and exp;lined after 5PM they got 2.5X, with a min 4 hrs. Finished up at 5:20...2 trucks, 2 crews)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I had PRECISELY this issue. Run the 5HP cabinet saw, lights dimmed.

Poco wasn't Johnny on the spot, ( I had to prove it was them) but once they came out it was a bad transformer. (The guy used a thermal gun to find a hot spot on the case.). Replaced it same day. (It was Dec 31. I apologized for dragging them out on NY eve... Guys laughed, say no problem- and explained after 5PM they got 2.5X, with a min 4 hrs. Finished up at 5:20...2 trucks, 2 crews)

Geez no wonder Profits Gone Elsewhere is broke. They pay an arm and 2 legs for labor.

 

[alfredeneuman]

They pay an arm and 2 legs for labor.

I had the same setup for a private contractor when every 5th week I had to be on call for the weekend.
NY Eve in the middle of the night? Forget about it

 

[rburke65]

Well obviously there is a loose neutral somewhere in the system. I would have thought that the pole would be either the first or second place they would have checked.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well obviously there is a loose neutral somewhere in the system. I would have thought that the pole would be either the first or second place they would have checked.

Dont think so.

He metered the voltage and there wasnt an imbalance.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

5hp saw runs on two hot legs right? neutral not involved there. not many 5hp 110V motors out there.

 

[Robbie B]

Lineman would’ve really **** himself on the one we had at work. 600v 3 phase had a high leg over 700v after a lightning storm. We had to convince Duke Energy that their transformer was bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wyliesdiesels]

5hp saw runs on two hot legs right? neutral not involved there. not many 5hp 110V motors out there.

Where did the OP say anything about a 5hp saw?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Lineman would’ve really **** himself on the one we had at work. 600v 3 phase had a high leg over 700v after a lightning storm. We had to convince Duke Energy that their transformer was bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi-leg should be what? 347v?

 

[Marctrees]

The one thing I have learned in life, and at Dunwoody Industrial Institute in Mpls is TRULY understanding electrical basics.

Once you REALLY understand that you can troubleshoot efficiently w/o pecking/ hunting.

Or coming up w stupid comments like the POCO guy did earlier in thread.

Marc

 

[JRC3]

Had a lot of flickering here and finally checked my breaker screws and many needed tightening. Moreso my main service breaker screws were lose and one was was almost finger tight. Don't go tightening these unless you have a main disconnect or something or know what you are doing. Luckily I didn't have any apparent scorching or excessive heat. Been fine every since.

 

[Marctrees]

I had a SQ D QO 100 2 pole go bad inside due to excessive long term heat on one loose output terminal.

Marc

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I had PRECISELY this issue. Run the 5HP cabinet saw, lights dimmed.

Poco wasn't Johnny on the spot, ( I had to prove it was them) but once they came out it was a bad transformer. (The guy used a thermal gun to find a hot spot on the case.). Replaced it same day. (It was Dec 31. I apologized for dragging them out on NY eve... Guys laughed, say no problem- and exp;lined after 5PM they got 2.5X, with a min 4 hrs. Finished up at 5:20...2 trucks, 2 crews)

Where did the OP say anything about a 5hp saw?

who said i said OP said it?