An appeal and a complaint

[John the theologian]

Men, I have a complaint and an appeal to some of you. A few months ago, when looking for tool information to help my son get his tools for auto tech school, I discovered the GJ and have found the posts very helpful and delightfully informative. I’ve always enjoyed tools myself, and I’m a bit of a backyard tinkerer on my own cars. However, while there have always been a few of you who have seemed to want to push the envelope on the pictures and language that you use, it seems to me that in the last few weeks it have gotten far worse.

In case your tempted to dismiss this as just the complaint of “holier than thou” fundamentalist, I want to ask those of you who’ve been putting the racy pictures and crude language on your posts if you really want to drive people like me away, because that’s just what you’ll do. While I certainly do think what I’ve seen is morally wrong, degrading to women, etc, my complaint really isn’t about how what you’re doing is affecting you—you and your own conscience (and perhaps facing your wives) will have to deal with that. I simply want to make an appeal to you that you ask yourself if what you put on your post is going to be offensive to someone. If you know it will be, why not just have the common courtesy to leave it off. If we’ll simply use common courtesy, all of us can enjoin the interesting discussions about tools—the purpose of this forum after all—and not have to worry about having to make decisions to stop visiting GJ.

Thanks for considering this.

 

[Bull]

I don't think the classifieds are the place for this. I will move it.

Please read the forum rules. If you see someone violating the rules, notify a mod. Otherwise, you might just be selective about what you look at.

 

[48548]

After reading the OP's posting, I wanted to apologize to anyone that I might have offended and I went through some of my posts and deleted some of the offending content. I am very sorry and it won't happen again. Thank you for being so understanding.

 

[krusty the clown]

john, i understand you side, in fact i mentioned that a while back. while i am not offended by **** i knew that some would be.

 

[dustin19]

i thought a garage was a place for MEN to talk about tools and talk about woman and joke around about wives/gf's and say what fine assets certain models have..... i can assure u that ur wives/gf's are joking about u at the local beauty parlor or werever the girls go to hangout . i dont really think u can call a garage a real garage unless it has atleast one pic of a scantly clad woman be it a poster or a calendar. /rant over/

 

[krusty the clown]

i thought a garage was a place for MEN to talk about tools and talk about woman and joke around about wives/gf's and say what fine assets certain models have..... i can assure u that ur wives/gf's are joking about u at the local beauty parlor or werever the girls go to hangout . i dont really think u can call a garage a real garage unless it has atleast one pic of a scantly clad woman be it a poster or a calendar. /rant over/

well.......yeah but would you do that when your preacher is there in your garage?

some call it political correctness (usually negatively)but it's really courtesy

 

[dustin19]

well.......yeah but would you do that when your preacher is there in your garage?

some call mit political correctness (usually negatively)but it's really courtesy

lol dont know my preacher he refers to his wife when shes not around as "the incredable she thing"

 

[Kjbakke2]

Men, I have a complaint and an appeal to some of you. A few months ago, when looking for tool information to help my son get his tools for auto tech school, I discovered the GJ and have found the posts very helpful and delightfully informative. I’ve always enjoyed tools myself, and I’m a bit of a backyard tinkerer on my own cars. However, while there have always been a few of you who have seemed to want to push the envelope on the pictures and language that you use, it seems to me that in the last few weeks it have gotten far worse.

In case your tempted to dismiss this as just the complaint of “holier than thou” fundamentalist, I want to ask those of you who’ve been putting the racy pictures and crude language on your posts if you really want to drive people like me away, because that’s just what you’ll do. While I certainly do think what I’ve seen is morally wrong, degrading to women, etc, my complaint really isn’t about how what you’re doing is affecting you—you and your own conscience (and perhaps facing your wives) will have to deal with that. I simply want to make an appeal to you that you ask yourself if what you put on your post is going to be offensive to someone. If you know it will be, why not just have the common courtesy to leave it off. If we’ll simply use common courtesy, all of us can enjoin the interesting discussions about tools—the purpose of this forum after all—and not have to worry about having to make decisions to stop visiting GJ.

Thanks for considering this.

first off thank you for being kind in your complaint

secondly i too would like to apologize if i have offended anybody

thirdly there are settings that you can change to make profane language censored on your son's profile

that being said (this is not being holier than thou) most of the racier things have "not work safe" etc. posted on them

maybe we should make a section for things of an exceedingly racier or profane nature

 

[Stuey]

i thought a garage was a place for MEN to talk about tools and talk about woman and joke around about wives/gf's and say what fine assets certain models have..... i can assure u that ur wives/gf's are joking about u at the local beauty parlor or werever the girls go to hangout . i dont really think u can call a garage a real garage unless it has atleast one pic of a scantly clad woman be it a poster or a calendar. /rant over/

You're absolutely right. But this isn't a private garage, it's a public forum, and the OP's compaints are valid.

 

[John the theologian]

Men, thanks for the kind responses of most of you. Let me just say that if the minority attitude that some of you seem to have that this is a "no holds barred forum" then I simply will have to quit visiting it. I simply don't want to be subjected to some things when what I want to learn about is tools. If we can agree to talk about tools, that's fine. If some of you insist on bringing other things in, no matter what justification you make, I'm simply out of here. Thanks for listening.

John

 

[dustin19]

You're absolutely right. But this isn't a private garage, it's a public forum, and the OP's compaints are valid.

huh uh whatever i thought the discussion and post he thought were innappropiate werent nearly as bad as half the victorie secret commercials i see on public television. also if the pics were disgracefull to women then the women shouldnt have posed for them in the first place. but thats my honest opinion and im sticking to it

 

[48548]

There are two GM forums I goto for full size trucks, and I have noticed one allows profanity and one doesn't. Also the one that does people get ripped upon all the time for a being a newbie and or asking a dumb question, or for doing things other people don't like or understand. This site is one site I feel isn't like that and most people welcome everyone with open arms. I would like to just say that while we could be more PC, I do think that this site is 100% better than most of the sites I have been to. I have never seen someone riped apart because they are starting a tool set and can only afford HF, I think that is what makes the people on here different, kind and caring and good-decent people.

 

[Kjbakke2]

There are two GM forums I goto for full size trucks, and I have noticed one allows profanity and one doesn't. Also the one that does people get ripped upon all the time for a being a newbie and or asking a dumb question, or for doing things other people don't like or understand. This site is one site I feel isn't like that and most people welcome everyone with open arms. I would like to just say that while we could be more PC, I do think that this site is 100% better than most of the sites I have been to. I have never seen someone riped apart because they are starting a tool set and can only afford HF, I think that is what makes the people on here different, kind and caring and good-decent people.

i second this opinion

i do believe we should reach a compromise

there are some real youngins on here and it has crossed my mind

John, i think we will be able to reach a compromise here but as stated before there are things much worse out there on just everyday television

how old is your son, i know that i was exposed to alot of profanity and vulgarity as a younger child and i believe that it did me some good but that was because my father taught me that instead of avoiding it i should just learn to process it in the right way because regardless the world is filled with profanity and vulgarity. For me this initial exposure was very maturing but that was because i understood how to handle it and i knew that my actions and reactions were my choice

just some thoughts to consider

that being said it would be a shame to see you and your son go and as someone who has been incredibly welcomed to this forum i will do whatever i can to make you guys feel the same

 

[dustin19]

i second this opinion

i do believe we should reach a compromise

there are some real youngins on here and it has crossed my mind

John, i think we will be able to reach a compromise here but as stated before there are things much worse out there on just everyday television

how old is your son, i know that i was exposed to alot of profanity and vulgarity as a younger child and i believe that it did me some good but that was because my father taught me that instead of avoiding it i should just learn to process it in the right way because regardless the world is filled with profanity and vulgarity. For me this initial exposure was very maturing but that was because i understood how to handle it and i knew that my actions and reactions were my choice

just some thoughts to consider

that being said it would be a shame to see you and your son go and as someone who has been incredibly welcomed to this forum i will do whatever i can to make you guys feel the same

seconded my dad exposed me to vulgarity and swearing at a young age but he taught me also that while i might be around it i wasnt aloud to talk it untill i was an adult. thinking back i remember turning 13 and that night my dad came into my bedroom with a couple "magazines and videos" and said dont let ur mom see these and if she does u didnt get them from me. sorta funny now i think about iit cause i was like O.O and thought he was the coolest after that. but really there are worse things on mtv,vh1, even some of the cartoon channels have some pretty bad stuff.. theres that show jackass,wildboys,those music videos, all the rapping BS.


so lets try to reach a understanding like kjbakke said... but honestly u cant expect us all tto stop being are selves... can you?

 

[Stuey]

Men, thanks for the kind responses of most of you. Let me just say that if the minority attitude that some of you seem to have that this is a "no holds barred forum" then I simply will have to quit visiting it. I simply don't want to be subjected to some things when what I want to learn about is tools. If we can agree to talk about tools, that's fine. If some of you insist on bringing other things in, no matter what justification you make, I'm simply out of here. Thanks for listening.

John

You can also make it a point to only check out the tool forum - most of the posts in question are probably in the free parking section.

You can also ignore the people whose posts you find offensive, but I don't think that it will affect the visibility of those quoting them.

 

[tatra]

only thing i found on here offensive was the religous and racist comments that pop up every so often.............as for the politacal ones, while against the rules, found them to be entertaining as being a non- american..........profanity and girlie pics, meh...........those with young kids beside them while surfing should know by now that searching for snow white could turn up a **** pic even with filters on............i don't go out of my way to offend but please don't ask me to be something i am not..........i do swear and like to see women in various stages of undress and poses...............as for leaving , your choice.........but you will miss out on a lot of good info..........

 

[thelews]

I'm not taking a position either way, but would like to point out that some members here might find your (John the theologian) initial post (request) offensive. What consititutes being offended is not the same for everyone. And, John, with all due respect, with 18 posts, if you find you opened the wrong door, then maybe you need to close it rather than try to reorder the room.

 

[Cobra4B]

OP - if you learn to use your web browser better you can filter out content you find offensive. We hae freedom of speech in this country and foul languange and *********** is part of that.

I do think it should be kept in a specific "off-topic" or "no holds barred" forum and most boards I frequent will have "****" aka Not Safe For Work in the thread titles. Word filters for profanity don't bug me, but at the end of the day this is a garage forum and last I checked the garage is where we do manly things... we objectify women, exaggerate about our man parts, "fix" things, and stare at the cool toys we've collected all while kicking back with our buddies and partaking in some frosty beverages after a hard weeks work.

 

[jam022316]

While I understand your point, most the time it's pretty obvious what the post is about. And if not, as soon as you open it, you can just as quickly close it. I absolutely love this place and it is nothing like most forums out there as far as what's allowed. I think the creator and admins do a great job at keeping it pg13. This is a pretty modest forum.

We're all adults and I don't see why everyone else has to stop doing what they're doing because you find it offensive. It is 2009. Honestly I don't mind driving people like you away. You sound very “holier than thou” and judgemental. I come here to hang out, learn some cool stuff, and bs with the guys. I think dustin19 is dead on in his thinking.

I welcome new members and want this site to expand and grow, but at the same time don't we get enough in our day to day lives of hearing people are offended by something?

 

[Zrexxer]

I make no judgements about what you find offensive or upsetting, but I firmly believe people have to take responsibilities for their own lives.

Issuing a "request" or a "mandate" or whatever you want to call it that everyone else in the world be on their guard so as not to offend you is doomed for disappointment.

 

[35mastr]

This is a garage forum. It is where we hang out and speak our minds and show off our pic's.

If you are looking for tools for your son. You should not be opening a thread thats called show off your girlfriend. Or pic's of chicks with your cars.

Its that simple. You chose to open threads that are not related to your search.

Then complain about them.

 

[Bull]

I simply don't want to be subjected to some things when what I want to learn about is tools. If we can agree to talk about tools, that's fine. Thanks for listening.
John

The Free Parking section is where you will find non-tool related and potentially (to you) offensive material. If you want only to talk about tools, you might not want to go into that forum

I would like to just say that while we could be more PC...

We could be a lot of things. Is this one of them we want to be?

 

[tw33k2514]

OP - if you learn to use your web browser better you can filter out content you find offensive. We hae freedom of speech in this country and foul languange and *********** is part of that.

I do think it should be kept in a specific "off-topic" or "no holds barred" forum and most boards I frequent will have "****" aka Not Safe For Work in the thread titles. Word filters for profanity don't bug me, but at the end of the day this is a garage forum and last I checked the garage is where we do manly things... we objectify women, exaggerate about our man parts, "fix" things, and stare at the cool toys we've collected all while kicking back with our buddies and partaking in some frosty beverages after a hard weeks work.

can I get an AMEN!

 

[D.J.]

I have to admit that I'm a sinner! I really don't know why but it's true. I agree with a lot of the previous posts. There are no channel changing buttons on the computer but their is a off button located on the front panel. As already mentioned above, you will be missing out on a lot of good info, and some pretty cool ideas. But as you wish! It is still your right in our FREE country to refrain from viewing these forums, or hopefully to continue viewing them! AMEN!!!

 

[APEowner]

thought a garage was a place for MEN to talk about tools and talk about woman and joke around about wives/gf's and say what fine assets certain models have..... i can assure u that ur wives/gf's are joking about u at the local beauty parlor or werever the girls go to hangout . i dont really think u can call a garage a real garage unless it has atleast one pic of a scantly clad woman be it a poster or a calendar. /rant over/

I guess some garages are (and I really don't have problem with that) but I spend allot of quality time with my daughter and my niece in the garage and I thought that I'd rather take down the naked chick calendar than put up the one with the naked guy that they and my wife were campaigning for.

As far was bad language and offensive comments are concerned this is a public forum and I try to avoid both of those things in public. I don't always succeed but I try.

 

[Bull]

All of this talk is great. But, here are the posted rules in the FP forum, where most of what the OP of this thread doesn't like is going to be found:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24987

In addition, the admin has specified no rude behavior i.e. one member insulting another. That applies to the whole board.

If those rules don't work for someone, then that person (not the rest of the membership) has the problem.

 

[61scout80]

OP - if you learn to use your web browser better you can filter out content you find offensive. We hae freedom of speech in this country and foul languange and *********** is part of that.

I do think it should be kept in a specific "off-topic" or "no holds barred" forum and most boards I frequent will have "****" aka Not Safe For Work in the thread titles. Word filters for profanity don't bug me, but at the end of the day this is a garage forum and last I checked the garage is where we do manly things... we objectify women, exaggerate about our man parts, "fix" things, and stare at the cool toys we've collected all while kicking back with our buddies and partaking in some frosty beverages after a hard weeks work.

HERE HERE! I'm thrilled that the owners of this site allow the users to express themselves as they would in their own lives. many of the tools we talk about on this site should not be used by anyone under 18 without supervision. So in my opinion the tool to speak about the tools should have the same guidelines. If you trust your kid enough to run a bead, cut wood or drive the car chances are they are responsible enough not to be affected by the mild language or photos on this site.

I do also appreciate those that mark their threads as "not safe for work". While i'm browsing on my lunch break i know to avoid them so a sue happy attention needing co worker isn't "offended"

You're absolutely right. But this isn't a private garage, it's a public forum, and the OP's compaints are valid.

It's really not a public forum, it's a private forum the owners allow us to use. The owners let us in their E-garage to hang out, but if one of us breaks the rules the owner bans us. The owner makes the rules. If it was "public" we would all be the owners, like a public park...

While I certainly do think what I’ve seen is morally wrong, degrading to women, etc, my complaint really isn’t about how what you’re doing is affecting you—you and your own conscience (and perhaps facing your wives) will have to deal with that.

this is where you lost me. Telling me that I'm somehow inferior because i look at a picture of a beautiful woman, who probably made more on that one shot than i do in a whole year, is intentionally rude and inconsiderate. You feel many of us are inconsiderate to you for our posts, but then you say that.

I do not set out to offend with anything in my life, but if I do it is unintentional. I will not "apologize" for things i say or do that other grown men and women do not like. Adults should be just that, adults. Personally I feel the word "offended" is far overused. Especially in a society where we find gruesome violence acceptable in our media but cower from anything even hinting at ********* or the natural human body. You can show a person being violently murdered on tv, but a 1/4 second broadcast of a breast makes national news for weeks. showing a "headshot" is fine, but if a character says "********" people with nothing more constructive to do send angry emails to the network.

If you feel language or photos posted by some users is beyond what you can handle there are several things you can do.
First, you can add the user to your ignore list. no more posts from that user will be displayed.
second, you can adjust your "Visible Post Elements". This control allows you to turn off user's signatures, avatars (pic under user name) as well as not display any images. each is independently controlled.

There does not appear to be a "word filter" on this site. I would guess there is some software in existence that you could install on your machine to do that job for you. This would probably be a question you can ask some of your more computer literate friends about. If you do find something please post information about it in this thread so those sharing your opinion could benefit from it.

In the end I will continue to post adult subject matter that fits within the terms of use dictated to us by the owner of the site. I do hope the owners of the site keep the current TOUs.
This site is a great resource for all of us, and compared to most the internet it is pretty mild. It's very easy to avoid anything that some consider offensive around here.

 

[bmwpower]

John, thanks for your feedback. We are trying our best to remove a lot of the content that goes against the posted rules. If it's normal users posting this type of content, please help us out and report the content. We're only a couple of guys with normal lives (well maybe some of us ) who dedicate a lot of time to filtering out the "bad" stuff. While this forum is owned and run by Ryan, it will only succeed with the help of it's members.

If it is spam, particularly the **** related stuff, that is a problem to you, again report it so we can remove. Even though the mods are on here all the time, sometimes this stuff can slip through. Reporting this type of junk sends a notice to us to remove it. Same goes for objectionable content that goes against the rules.

And this is a warning to all members:
We've instituted infractions a little while ago -

One infraction and the user loses the forum for a day.
Two infractions, they loose it for a week.
Three infractions and they are banned.

Hopefully this will help get rid of a lot of the countless bits of drama and content that goes against the rules.

While I am first and foremost a person who is against censorship and believes that we need Free Parking and the ability to express ourselves, some of the stuff is against the rules and needs to be removed.

Hope this helps.

 

[caper]

Not to put too fine a point on it but IMHO-As long as the posts aren't against the rules,deal with it or leave.I'm tired of having to worry about what some fringe elements of society think about my opinions.If your worried your son will see a woman or read a vulgar word here that he hasn't heard before your living a delusion IMO.Kids see and hear more in ten minutes of music videos than they will see here in a month.The pictures of women posted here are for the most part extremely tame compared to the bumping and grinding seen in a music video.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Not to put too fine a point on it but IMHO-As long as the posts aren't against the rules,deal with it or leave.I'm tired of having to worry about what some fringe elements of society think about my opinions.If your worried your son will see a woman or read a vulgar word here that he hasn't heard before your living a delusion IMO.Kids see and hear more in ten minutes of music videos than the will see here in a month.The pictures of women posted here are for the most part extremely tame compared to the bumping and grinding seen in a music video.

+1.


As some of the guys i used to work with would say "If you don't like it, go 'ome."

 

[babzog]

Men, thanks for the kind responses of most of you. Let me just say that if the minority attitude that some of you seem to have that this is a "no holds barred forum" then I simply will have to quit visiting it. I simply don't want to be subjected to some things when what I want to learn about is tools. If we can agree to talk about tools, that's fine. If some of you insist on bringing other things in, no matter what justification you make, I'm simply out of here. Thanks for listening.

John

I wouldn't say this is "no holds barred" but I don't think it's going to ever be free of material you might consider offensive (whatever that might be). The internet is a web of information and offense... search for 'tool' and I'm sure the first thing that pops up is not a manufactured device for assisting or completing work.

Actually, I'm surprised... it was the band by that name that popped up. Google's filters must be improving.

Anyway, while I find things other than the Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television or the (****) female body offensive (ie: I personally hate the slide into vulgarity that is occuring on many radio stations these days... Virgin 106.9 in Ottawa is getting particularly bad) , I've seen most of the racy material in the Free Parking section of this forum. As that is not really tool related, it might be wise to steer clear of that one.

Overall, this is a great community of (mostly) guys chatting about tools and stuff... and yes, sometimes it might get a bit crude, however, with rare exception, I don't think anyone wants a member to leave because he or she was turned off. Your post, however, is taken in the spirit in which it was intended. While racy pics are easy to avoid, I think that asking for a blanket ban on cussing is probably expecting a bit much. No offense intended.

 

[kharma]

Wow... this is one of the more tame boards I have been on lately... different strokes I suppose.

 

[LoneGunman]

With all due respect, if people didn't post because the post may offend someone somewhere then there would be no posts and no members. I cannot believe that your son is in an automotive tech school and you are worried about what he sees here, this site is VERY clean when it comes to garage,tools, automotive type sites. Whatever you do, do not go visit Pirate 4x4. I think you are just wasting your time and alienating yourself, you expect the majority to change for the wishes of a few. This site is obviously not a democracy, it's Ryan's house, if tasteful pics and mild profanity agitated him that much I'm sure the mods would be told to enforce his wishes, especially that power hungry Bull (Bull knows I'm playing)

 

[Bull]

especially that power hungry Bull (Bull knows I'm playing)

I'm a monster...roar!

 

[bry@n]

Well I would like to go on record as apologizing if I have offended somebody. AS well as if I have used vulgar language. I am a man and come hear to shoot the **** so to speak. Garages are where this kinda stuff belongs IMO.

While I agree that sometimes things get a little crazy but generally this place is clean. If I gotta worry about being PC at work and with customers, I don't need it on my downtime.

Oh and somebody mentioned preacher being in the room. My preacher knows me well. We've had lengthly conversations. The stuff that goes on this site is g rated compared to our convo's.

 

[Bull]

I just don't think anyone needs to apologize. Come on, now. One new guy says he is offended and some of you are sorry...for what? bry@n, I've never seen you post anything inappropriate!!

 

[bry@n]

Bull,
Thanks, but we all make mistakes at one point or another. Figured I would cover the bases just in case.

 

[Justanoldguy]

Men, thanks for the kind responses of most of you. Let me just say that if the minority attitude that some of you seem to have that this is a "no holds barred forum" then I simply will have to quit visiting it. I simply don't want to be subjected to some things when what I want to learn about is tools. If we can agree to talk about tools, that's fine. If some of you insist on bringing other things in, no matter what justification you make, I'm simply out of here. Thanks for listening.

John

I am pretty sure you won't be missed.

 

[Justanoldguy]

The other thing that John NEVER mentioned and should have. (if you follow his thinking) The avatars. Please remove anything that may offend John and his son (whom he is protecting from us uncouth garage guys)

 

[scooby074]

Not to put too fine a point on it but IMHO-As long as the posts aren't against the rules,deal with it or leave.I'm tired of having to worry about what some fringe elements of society think about my opinions.If your worried your son will see a woman or read a vulgar word here that he hasn't heard before your living a delusion IMO.Kids see and hear more in ten minutes of music videos than they will see here in a month.The pictures of women posted here are for the most part extremely tame compared to the bumping and grinding seen in a music video.

+2

Remember nudie calanders? People like the OP are the reason we dont have 'em anymore. Same goes for any number of un-PC things.

Ive had enough with the PC ****. Dont like it... dont look. Im getting mighty tired of the silent majority changing for the vocal minority.

If your worried about your son, wait till hes out in the real world. Trade school and jobsites are 10x worse than the mild stuff posted on here.

Gj is a great mix. Knowledge and the odd "Racy" pic. I wouldnt change a thing.

Perhaps Free Parking isnt the best section for you to browse.