Angle stop plumbing question

[PT Doc]

A few questions about compression fittings and sleeves.

Under kitchen sink, I have an angle stop that’s not facing in the direction I need it. I’m installing a water filter and need to reconfigure. Loosing the nut on the 5/8“ OD copper pipe and turning it to face where I need it will be no problem? I read somewhere that the brass sleeve on the copper pipe cannot be reused but in my case I’m just loosening 1/4 turun and turning it then tightening?

If I was going replace an angle stop under another sink using same brand stop, can I loosen the nut fully, remove the angle stop and reuse the brass sleeve and use same nut or does the sleeve need to be removed and a new one installed?

Thanks!

 

[mike93lx]

I would always replace the brass furrule when changing a valve. Also clean the pipe and make sure it is deburred both in and out.

If the valve under the kitchen sink is old, just replace it while doing this work. But if it is all in good condition, it likely will be fine to just rotate it

 

[nadogail]

New Angle Stops are very inexpensive, but good insurance.

 

[Zeke]

@PT Doc, once compressed ferrules are hard to remove. They have collapsed on the pipe and crushed the pipe a tiny bit. Not being extraordinarily careful you can scratch the pipe and it will leak with a new ferrule. If you have room, you can cut off the section ferrule and all. Rotating it should work. I'd do that first but it might be nice to have a new part on hand.

He says they are cheap. Don't buy a cheap one.

 

[Blickus]

Rotate it & retighten. This is done all the time in much more critical applications (high pressure flammable gasses).

 

[housewolf]

Rotate it & retighten. This is done all the time in much more critical applications (high pressure flammable gasses).

 

[kbs2244]

I would just buy a longer whip and leave it as is

 

[wagoncrazy]

I say rotate and retighten. Should be fine if you get it tight enough to reseal.
and in your other room, try installing the new anglestop with the old backing nut and ferrule. if it leaks and you can't get it tight enough to stop, then back up and pull the old ferrel and nut off and use the new ones.

To remove the ferrule, take a very fine metal hacksaw blade and gently and slowly cut across it. But not so much that you cut into the copper pipe. Once you get it close, it will crack and you can pull it off and the old nut too, then put the new nut and ferrule on.

be careful NOT to burr the pipe in any of this or it will not seal up.

 

[PT Doc]

Thank you for the information!

 

[nadogail]

I say rotate and retighten. Should be fine if you get it tight enough to reseal.
and in your other room, try installing the new anglestop with the old backing nut and ferrule. if it leaks and you can't get it tight enough to stop, then back up and pull the old ferrel and nut off and use the new ones.

To remove the ferrule, take a very fine metal hacksaw blade and gently and slowly cut across it. But not so much that you cut into the copper pipe. Once you get it close, it will crack and you can pull it off and the old nut too, then put the new nut and ferrule on.

be careful NOT to burr the pipe in any of this or it will not seal up.

I use a ferrule puller from a Plumbing Supply distributor. They come off quickly and easily and there has been no damage to the copper pipe.

I now buy the Quarter Turn Angle Stops. They are easier to use than the multi turn old style ones. Brass Craft brand has been good for me, I buy them in the Contractor pack at Home Depot.

 

[Meursault74]

If the valve is in good condition, I'd try the loosen and rotate then retighten. But I'd have a completely new valve on hand just in case the original valve leaked or didn't shut off completely (which is what valves eventually do when you touch them after a long time) I wouldn't reef on the fittings either. I'd rather not deform the pipe. If it leaked, I'd use a puller to take off the ferrule, clean the pipe and put the everything new from the new valve back on.

here's the puller I have. Makes it easier to take off the ferrule. I've seen videos of people cutting them off with a hacksaw. Yeah, not for me crammed underneath a sink and with no room to "operate". Out in the open, then maybe. All the angle stops I've replaced so far have been under sinks. Even the ones I have for the toilets don't leave much room to operate a hacksaw with the accuracy needed. I'm very glad I bought this tool.

Amazon.com

 

[Dig Doug]

If the existing valves are old say 8-10 years, I would replace w/ new and go with new supply lines

if fairly new just loosen a 1/4 turn and see if it can rotate


FYI
the toilet supply line w/ plastic nut to the toilet tank is one if the biggest flooding problems - box stores seem to only sell them w/ plastic nut.

 

[Lynden]

Compression fittings are quicker to install but not better. I would remove the existing valve and ferrule, solder a male adapter onto the pipe and install a new quarter-turn valve.

 

[csp]

New Angle Stops are very inexpensive, but good insurance.

A new angle stop isn't going to help if there's no room for a new ferrule for the compression fitting, which is often the case.

 

[mike93lx]

A new angle stop isn't going to help if there's no room for a new ferrule for the compression fitting, which is often the case.

Why would there be no room?

 

[Sturgeon]

I would turn off the the water , pull angle stop, apply pipe dope around compression ferro and tighten to desired angle. No pipe dope use wd 40 to keep friction down. Worked for 30 years. Or go thru first step with puller and new valve.

 

[csp]

Why would there be no room?

You've never seen a compression ring that has been tightened so far that it has damaged the pipe it's sealing? If you cut off the old ferrule and the underlying pipe is damaged you have to cut the pipe to get to undamaged copper in order to use a new ferrule. Many angle stops are installed tight to the wall or cabinet bottom, therefore there isn't enough remaining copper to remove beyond the damaged area.

I've seen more damaged pipe from overtightened compression fitting that non-damaged. I've also changed many shut offs without replacing the ferrule. Haven't had a leak yet. We close on a 50 year old home next week and the first plan is to replace every shut off in the house using the same method as many are completely frozen gate valves.

 

[Meursault74]

You've never seen a compression ring that has been tightened so far that it has damaged the pipe it's sealing? If you cut off the old ferrule and the underlying pipe is damaged you have to cut the pipe to get to undamaged copper in order to use a new ferrule. Many angle stops are installed tight to the wall or cabinet bottom, therefore there isn't enough remaining copper to remove beyond the damaged area.

I've seen more damaged pipe from overtightened compression fitting that non-damaged. I've also changed many shut offs without replacing the ferrule. Haven't had a leak yet. We close on a 50 year old home next week and the first plan is to replace every shut off in the house using the same method as many are completely frozen gate valves.

I'm betting they get damaged because of reusing the ferrule and over tightening it until it until it stops leaking. Should be fine until the next time it needs to be changed. If you're not the one going to be changing it out in the future, then sure go right ahead. That's what the last guy likely did.

I have lots of experience with various types of compression fittings used for liquids and gases (Swagelok, Vici, Rheodyne etc) as well as household ones. If I reuse them, they usually need to be over tightened and that will usually distort the tube. When I changed some of the angle stops in my home, I've pulled the ferrule off with the puller and the pipe was perfect underneath. When I put everything new on, I tightened as specified and no leaks. I'm sure the next time I change one, the pipe will be fine underneath as I didn't need to over tighten.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm betting they get damaged because of reusing the ferrule and over tightening it until it until it stops leaking. Should be fine until the next time it needs to be changed. If you're not the one going to be changing it out in the future, then sure go right ahead. That's what the last guy likely did.

I have lots of experience with various types of compression fittings used for liquids and gases (Swagelok, Vici, Rheodyne etc) as well as household ones. If I reuse them, they usually need to be over tightened and that will usually distort the tube. When I changed some of the angle stops in my home, I've pulled the ferrule off with the puller and the pipe was perfect underneath. When I put everything new on, I tightened as specified and no leaks. I'm sure the next time I change one, the pipe will be fine underneath as I didn't need to over tighten.

Same here. I've not encountered damage from a ferrule