Another 2 post lift epoxy anchor question...

[MikeC55]

I know this subject has recently been discussed and the horse is pretty well beaten, but after searching on this site and net in general, I still haven't found answer to these specific questions; has anyone successfully installed a 9 - 10K lb 2 post lift using epoxy anchors (anchors designed for epoxy)? If so, what anchors did you use and did lift manufacturer bless them? I know a lot of folks say to follow mfg instructions, but it seems with wedge anchors there is a very good chance I'll have a problem with at least one and will have to resort to epoxy anchor as a fix. I'd just prefer to start with epoxy anchors to avoid this. Interestingly, epoxy anchors for MaxJax can be purchased easily, but this is the only lift I find where (5/8") anchors are openly allowed by mfg. Does anyone know of a lift in 9-10K range (using 3/4 or 7/8" anchors that openly allows an option for epoxy anchors and which specific ones?

I did have a MaxJax for 10 years which I installed with epoxy anchors and never had to add any torque when checking the bolts.

 

[wssix99]

it seems with wedge anchors there is a very good chance I'll have a problem

Only if you back-woods it. I have never had this happen to me in my entire life, through working as a carpenter, building a large concrete house, installing 3 lifts, etc.

The recipe for success is simple: 1) Use a HD hammer drill. If you don't own a large unit, you can rent one for a few hours. 2) Buy a new drill bit when you install your lift. The new bit will eat through the concrete and cut cleanly. 3) If you have rebar in the slab, purchase a rebar-cutting bit. These are expensive but worth every dollar. If you hit rebar, swap bits, cut through and resume with your regular bit.

 

[Buckgnarly]

The advice above is very good. I put my Bendpak in exactly as described and by the manufacturers numbers with no issues. The company that inspects my school lifts every year uses wedge anchors. We had an old lift that had a busted wedge anchor, they drilled it out and put in the next size up wedge anchor.
For some reason people on here like to WAAAY over think lift installs. Do a clean and proper install by the manufacture specs and you be fine.

 

[afazz]

I agree with the above advice: use the supplied wedge anchors, use new bits including rebar cutters, use a proper SDS-Plus or SDS-Max drill, clean the hole out really well, and follow the manufacturer's instructions.

To answer your original question, yes, I have personally installed a lift using chemical anchors. I used Hilti HIT-HY-200-R V3 epoxy with Hilti HAS-V 3/4" threaded rods. All anchors are different so consult with the manufacturer, but this setup required a 7/8" hole. I spent several hundred dollars at the Hilti store to make this happen. I did not consult with Challenger. There were other complicated reasons why I used this system, I would prefer wedge anchors.

Given a 'normal' lift installation (clean flat concrete slab) I would recommend wedge anchors as I have done for 3-4 other lift installations I helped friends with.

Edit: I just checked, I spent $530 at the Hilti store plus a $70 applicator gun on eBay to install one lift.

 

[Kaizen]

I recommed getting yourself an sds drill. I got one fairly cheap at HD. Worth every penny. I think the key is to drill all the way through the slab and blow out the holes. If you have a wedge slip you can just punch it into the dirt below, try another wedge, or then use epoxy.
I had to use on two of mine and no neither the manufacturer nor the epoxy people will either. Just too much liabilty.
I was going to get the threaded rod and epoxy from Hilti. They had a special gun and all fancy stuff. Very expensive. Ended up getting a dewalt product and some rod on line.

 

[MikeC55]

Thanks, guys. I do have a Bosch SDS drill and will get a couple of new bits. It's just that I've seen so many posts with the spinning anchor issue, it seemed like there was a very small margin of error. I have carefully noted where the rebar sits relative to the walls in the vicinity of where the lift posts will go and the rebar is 7" deep (total thickness 9"), so I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to avoid it. I'm still not sure about drilling the holes all the way through. It seems there are some good reasons to do it but it could degrade things if you break out a cone of concrete on the bottom.

 

[Rusted Nut]

Personally, if I were installing my own two post lift; I would definitely use epoxy anchors. I’ve installed many hundreds of post installed concrete anchors, seen a lot of expansion anchor failures but never an epoxy failure.

Make sure holes for epoxy are well cleaned out, compressed air and steel brush.

 

[Delta74]

Just going to add my 2 cents here on the epoxy and see if I can help save you guys a few bucks , Dewalt anchors division ( could not beat Powers fasteners so they bought them ) offers AC200+ with almost identical specs to Hilti Hit epoxy at about half the price , and can be used with a standard caulking gun so no special tools needed and covers a much wider range of installation temperatures .

the engineers here will often allow a simple A307 threaded rod to be used in place of the HAS-V anchors as they share similar properties , in a few cases will request A193 B7 threaded rod be used instead for a higher tensile rating. I will post a link ( i hope ) right from Allied bolt for some very dry reading if you want to have a nap.

as for the hammer drill you guys are bang on , use a new bit 4 head cutter if possible for a clean hole , IF you hit re-bar stop and swap out to a diablo rebar cutter and please take the drill off hammer mode, only use rotary , drill the bar out then swap back and you should have a perfect hole to epoxy into , brush and blow out the dust and epoxy away.

from allied bolt here is the address

A307 / F1554 / A193 B7

and in case free tool from dewalt to help figure out how much epoxy is needed.

https://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/support-software/adhesive_anchor_volume_estimator.php

anyway hope that helps save you guys a few bucks.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

purchase a rebar-cutting bit. These are expensive but worth every dollar. If you hit rebar, swap bits, cut through and resume with your regular bit.

Have one or two brands that you would recommend?

 

[MikeC55]

Thanks, Delta74. I'm definitely going to look into that.

 

[mike93lx]

Have one or two brands that you would recommend?

I have had great luck with Bosch bits

 

[NORDFORD]

Epoxy is a great option. Personally, I’d use the DeWalt screw bolt anchors. Drill, blow, impact in.

I’ve been selling tools and anchors for 25yrs. If you need/want some guidance, I’d be happy to help. Whatever your do, just match the specs of the manufacturer.

Epoxy is great, but they set up incredibly fast. The working(gel) time for the DeWalt AC100 is 6minutes when the base material is 68 degrees. You need to have all of your holes drilled, cleaned and ready to go. Then fill the epoxy and set the stud.

AC100+ link: https://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/...on-system-chemical-anchors/ac100plus_gold.php

Screw Bolt Link:

https://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/products/mechanical-anchors/screw-anchors/screw-boltplus/screw-boltplus_hex_head.php

 

[mike93lx]

Epoxy is a great option. Personally, I’d use the DeWalt screw bolt anchors. Drill, blow, impact in.

I’ve been selling tools and anchors for 25yrs. If you need/want some guidance, I’d be happy to help. Whatever your do, just match the specs of the manufacturer.

Epoxy is great, but they set up incredibly fast. The working(gel) time for the DeWalt AC100 is 6minutes when the base material is 68 degrees. You need to have all of your holes drilled, cleaned and ready to go. Then fill the epoxy and set the stud.

AC100+ link: https://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/...on-system-chemical-anchors/ac100plus_gold.php

Screw Bolt Link:

https://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/products/mechanical-anchors/screw-anchors/screw-boltplus/screw-boltplus_hex_head.php

I've never seen a suggestion for screw anchors for a lift. Do they have the right ratings for that?

 

[NORDFORD]

I've never seen a suggestion for screw anchors for a lift. Do they have the right ratings for that?

Typically, against same sized wedge anchors, they have higher ratings.

 

[xjfish]

has anyone successfully installed a 9 - 10K lb 2 post lift using epoxy anchors (anchors designed for epoxy)? If so, what anchors did you use and did lift manufacturer bless them? ...

Yes, Chinese 12k 2 post. I used higher grade 3/4" threaded rod and Redhead epoxy in minimum spec'd concrete. Manufacturer and several garage journal members did not bless this method. I have had zero issues with the concrete or anchors.

 

[Dig Doug]

Thanks, guys. I do have a Bosch SDS drill and will get a couple of new bits. It's just that I've seen so many posts with the spinning anchor issue, it seemed like there was a very small margin of error. I have carefully noted where the rebar sits relative to the walls in the vicinity of where the lift posts will go and the rebar is 7" deep (total thickness 9"), so I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to avoid it. I'm still not sure about drilling the holes all the way through. It seems there are some good reasons to do it but it could degrade things if you break out a cone of concrete on the bottom.

Most of the Spinning anchor issue is due to installation error

Hole isn’t deep enough
nut on anchor gets hit and then cross threaded
top of anchor gets mushroomed and nut binds ( similar to above cross threading)
locking ring doesn’t catch and lock in, try to lightly pull-up the anchor to set the locking ring


Drill straight - plumb into the concrete
mark the drill bit depth ( it’s typically ok to drill holes slight deeper)
Double check the depth of the hole after cleaning
clean out hole vacuum or air blow out
use a brush to scrub the dust off the sides then blow out again
watch your anchor setting, hammer straight down, I typically use a sledge hammer, it provides a smooth anchor setting process

Go slow on each step in the process

Ive set 1,000’s of anchors & get one that doesn’t want to cooperate every now and then - Typically the last one and in a hurry to finish !

 

[Steve_P]

Personally, if I were installing my own two post lift; I would definitely use epoxy anchors. I’ve installed many hundreds of post installed concrete anchors, seen a lot of expansion anchor failures but never an epoxy failure.

Make sure holes for epoxy are well cleaned out, compressed air and steel brush.

I'm the opposite and have never seen an expansion anchor failure. I've seen industrial robots pull out "transfer station" pedestals multiple times from the floor, and every time the four anchors didn't fail and instead pulled out concrete cones just as it should.

In the "big dig" tunnel in Boston they had epoxy failures that resulted in ceiling panels falling and killing a motorist. Yes, they used the "wrong" epoxy, but for something where you don't need to use epoxy, like a lift install, then I'd personally go with the tried-and-true mechanical method. The key is drilling a decent hole and don't keep hogging it out. Just drill it and stop. Then clean it out.

 

[BobnCO]

Installed my used Rotary 9k with 3/4” rated threaded studs and nuts from Fastenal (as opposed to cutting threaded rod) and Sika anchoring adhesive with appropriate rating. It cures fast so don’t get ahead of yourself. I’m pleased. I too am a carpenter, and have had enough failed expansion anchors. I didn’t feel extremely partial, although highway engineer buddy agreed with the epoxy choice over expansion anchors. Either will work; either should be researched to make sure the fasteners are rated for the task. Agreed a failed expanding anchor can be overcome; nothing to overcome with epoxy anchors.

 

[grindliner]

Most Rotary hoists call for 3/4" wedge anchors, I've installed many over my career of 25 years, Hilti, dewalt/powers, redhead, they're all the same except for price, RTFM and follow it. Rent a rotary hammer from the Borg. I used to run Hilti, the best in the business, but now run Dewalt for the past 8 years, Bosch are solid too, same goes for bits. We only use chemical anchors if needed. in a nutshell, follow the manufacturer's instructions. no need to overthink. Oh yeah, one anchoring instruction we don't follow, is we always drill all the way through the concrete, though we always follow minimum embedment guidelines. if you don't drill all the way through, and you get a spinner, because your employer told you to check the torque annually at full torque, you will get spinners, that's when we go to chemical anchors, pound the spinner through, and use a chemical anchor, otherwise, you have to move the hoist