I have to upgrade to a bigger 2 stage compressor, not a pro shop but restore tractors. Currently running a blasting cabinet that requires 10-15 cfm . Looking at the Ingersoll Rand (2475N7.5), 7.5hp or the Champion from TP, leaning toward the Champion due to stated rpm under 1000 and noise is a factor as it will be in a 40X60 shop with a metal ceiling. Also, the amp draw of the motor is a little higher so I figure it is a true 7.5hp motor. I've tried to go the older unit route but unless you are on the computer 24/7, those deals get scarfed up pretty quick here in the Midwest.
Another Compressor comparison question
- Thread starter JW in MO
- Start date
b-body-bob
Well-known member
I've got a 5hp Champion with the R15B pump that I've disassembled. If I looked at the right unit at the TP site, that has an R15 series pump on it. I can say that mine is pretty substantial inside and out. All the IRs I've seen (at TSC) just don't measure up.
I know you can't get the two compressors side by side, but even from looking at the photos you can see what I mean. So my vote would be for the Champ. Also, if it matters to you, my compressor was made in the USA, but I'm not sure if that's still true for the current production.
I know you can't get the two compressors side by side, but even from looking at the photos you can see what I mean. So my vote would be for the Champ. Also, if it matters to you, my compressor was made in the USA, but I'm not sure if that's still true for the current production.
Thanks, I also found the same IR unit at Tractor Supply for $400 less than the online store. I talked to a guy today that has the IR and said the noise would have disqualified it had he heard it first. I'd like to get by with a 5hp but just afraid I'll come up short and then I would be sick. I am going to keep a look out for a while longer.
Sims5
Well-known member
Check out Eaton Air Compressors. I just bought a 10 hp 80 gal that is rated at 34 cfm at 100 psi. Very happy with it.
http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/8165853/8847366.htm
Here's mine installed in my "mechanical room"
http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/8165853/8847366.htm
Here's mine installed in my "mechanical room"
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Have you looked the the Quincy models? Usually Northern Tool carries them, but you can go on their website to find a local dealer too.
I would love a Saylor-Beall but those are kind of pricy.
I looked at Eaton when shopping around, they looked very good for the price, but they had like a 6 week lead time and we needed a compressor fast. I don't know how long the current wait is, best to call and see.
Also looked at http://www.compressed-air-systems.com/ they had some nice stuff too for the price. That company was recommended to me by the local Quincy dealer (They sell a few brands of compressors, he wasn't exclusively Quincy.)
Have you looked on your local CL? I'm always seeing barely used compressors for sale, even good 5 & 7.5 HP models now and then.
I would love a Saylor-Beall but those are kind of pricy.
I looked at Eaton when shopping around, they looked very good for the price, but they had like a 6 week lead time and we needed a compressor fast. I don't know how long the current wait is, best to call and see.
Also looked at http://www.compressed-air-systems.com/ they had some nice stuff too for the price. That company was recommended to me by the local Quincy dealer (They sell a few brands of compressors, he wasn't exclusively Quincy.)
Have you looked on your local CL? I'm always seeing barely used compressors for sale, even good 5 & 7.5 HP models now and then.
sberry
Banned
I like the 10 hp thing above. You could do a little light blasting without driving yourself insane and could work a whole shop of guys from it when you weren't.
I have almost that much on electric and can add my truck which is similar and blast well but in the shop that would be good and then some. I use 2 machines for a total of 8 or so with a 3 carrying the load on 200 gallons of bottle. I even shut the breaker off on the 5 and am never at a loss anymore. I painted a lot of trucks from the 3, you had to be thrifty but it worked.
The only reason I havnt upgraded is it all works so well and I am on rural lines and hate to sock motor loads to it all the time. The second is redundancy, probably not much of an issue with brandy new comp.
Find some soft batt for the walls and ceiling, don't got to do the whole room,. maybe plumb intake outside, I could stand to do this myself but made a little baffle that knocked it down. I like to hear it a little bit.
I have almost that much on electric and can add my truck which is similar and blast well but in the shop that would be good and then some. I use 2 machines for a total of 8 or so with a 3 carrying the load on 200 gallons of bottle. I even shut the breaker off on the 5 and am never at a loss anymore. I painted a lot of trucks from the 3, you had to be thrifty but it worked.
The only reason I havnt upgraded is it all works so well and I am on rural lines and hate to sock motor loads to it all the time. The second is redundancy, probably not much of an issue with brandy new comp.
Find some soft batt for the walls and ceiling, don't got to do the whole room,. maybe plumb intake outside, I could stand to do this myself but made a little baffle that knocked it down. I like to hear it a little bit.
sberry
Banned
This is a little off subject and they are not enough for everyone but the service demands are something I like about the small 5 hp units, (200A migs as well) but they got enough poop to get a little something done without dragging 50 or 60A service to the ground or adding significant demand as a whole.
sberry
Banned
I was typing but yes I do this, part of it is the equipment I started with and got the second for close to free with a day repair to it. If I was starting new would likely try to get enough behind it to do it in one pull, just so much less to take care of.
I got a 6 space panel for the air but it cost that and 2 extra breakers etc, not a deal breaker but extra connections. The upside is one 3 hp unit does 99.8% of the work.
Local TSC shows that pump for $2100. For a couple hundred more dollars you can get a new totally made in the USA, Saylor Beall instead of that made in India pump. It will likely last decades longer.
Trey T
Well-known member
does anyone here run dual compressor (2nd one autostart based on demand)? What kind of controller is required?
I totally agree with DekeT
The picture above showing the black Eaton compressor is basically a Saylor-Beall clone. All the parts are imported except the belt guard and skid that the pump and motor mount to. I don’t know how Eaton gets away with doing this without a fight from Saylor-Beall, but I’m sure the legalities have already been tried.
Not saying the Eaton is a bad compressor, but it is a hodgepodge of imported………
If you can afford the extra $, get the real deal, Saylor-Beall Made in USA
Trey T
Well-known member
check out HD online website for the 5hp clone Saylor Beall 705. I believe these pumps delivers ~17CFM @175psi, 800rpm, 5hp. Then put a pilot valve on there for continuous run when there's a demand.
sberry
Banned
I have the start on the second just below the start on the primary, it doesn't come on unless demand really spikes and it catches up fast and will run continuous without messing with it when sandblasting,,, all by itself.
Trey T
Well-known member
The clone SB (aka SC23) valves are slightly different than the real one. The top photo is SB-705 and the bottom one is the clone. People are allow to copy one's work if the patent expires and the SB design is an old design.
The real one appears to be superior, perhaps stainless steel and larger intake through those valves.
The real one appears to be superior, perhaps stainless steel and larger intake through those valves.
I totally agree with DekeT
The picture above showing the black Eaton compressor is basically a Saylor-Beall clone. All the parts are imported except the belt guard and skid that the pump and motor mount to. I don’t know how Eaton gets away with doing this without a fight from Saylor-Beall, but I’m sure the legalities have already been tried.
Not saying the Eaton is a bad compressor, but it is a hodgepodge of imported………
If you can afford the extra $, get the real deal, Saylor-Beall Made in USA
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Trey T
Well-known member
How do you control the second one to come on automatically? Can you explain in detail please?
Bunchgrass
Well-known member
Not to completely hijack this thread as I've been looking at compressors too although my shop doesn't need a 10HP unit (would be nice though) and the made in America or US made thing is killing me. The "rules" for what "qualifies" a product to be stamped Made in the USA are pretty vague. My understanding is a pump made in India on a compressor with parts from China and Mexico can stamp USA made if the "majority of the cost of the product's manufacturing" occurs in the US. Not to mention that a single product, say a specific IR compressor, can be made in a number of different places ....adding to the frustration and confusion when trying to buy US made and the better quality we want to associate with that label.
Guess that's why I still haven't bought a compressor!
Guess that's why I still haven't bought a compressor!
justanengineer
Well-known member
Ive seen dozens of dual compressor setups but admittedly never paid attention to the plumbing. If I were to build a dual setup tho, I dont see why two of the usual pressure sampling motor cutoff switches couldnt be made to work and wired to the individual compressor motors. The primary compressor would always automatically come on first, then the secondary, as pressure drops. On initial startup both would run until the lower limit is reached and the secondary pump cuts off, then the primary would finish filling the tank.
Trey T
Well-known member
I wonder if there was an affordable controller (some sort of logic controller) out there that would do this:
-primary pump (#1) comes on by pressure switch
-secondary pump (#2) comes on by demand. Another word, #2 comes on after seeing the #1 switch on-and-off too many times w/in short period of time (i.e. 5min).
-primary pump (#1) comes on by pressure switch
-secondary pump (#2) comes on by demand. Another word, #2 comes on after seeing the #1 switch on-and-off too many times w/in short period of time (i.e. 5min).
alwaysFlOoReD
Well-known member
You're over thinking this. Just hook up both compressors together. Don't use the same breaker for both motors. I feed as many compressors as I need to get the cfm I need into an 80 gallon tank and feed out from that. I have a ~10 cfm 5 gal. gas compressor, a 120v 2hp ~ 7 cfm 20 gal., a 240V 5hp ~ 10 cfm 25 gal., and am currently working on a 240V 5hp ~ 15 cfm that will be permanently mounted on the 80 gallon tank. I will have a shut off on the 15 cfm so I can still use the 80 gal. tank with the smaller compressors.
Richard
Trey T
Well-known member
I had to read this several times and got it! thanks.
sberry
Banned
The shut off is the same for both, both run until the max pressure is reached. The second or backup is set to com on just below the cut in of the primary, if demand draws below this it kicks.
sberry
Banned
Mine are on separate breakers also, as mentioned I have turned number 2 off unless I intend to do heavy work and since my system is on 24/7 I figure if there was a blowout only one unit would be caught running.
strutaeng
Well-known member
I have seen some industrial applications where there is a "alternator" that switches between two machines so they wear more uniformly (two pumps and motors per tank set-up).
However, I have no idea how this can be accomplished to achieve this and making both come on during high demand loads.
I'm no expert by any means...Seems like a question for the pros.
However, I have no idea how this can be accomplished to achieve this and making both come on during high demand loads.
I'm no expert by any means...Seems like a question for the pros.
kams1973
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Google duplex air compressor. Basically, they alternate pumps on low demand, and if demand is high enough, both pumps will run.
sberry
Banned
Trey, I am not sure what your background with air is but, its slightly different in demand than electric and this can become a hunt for a problem to fix before it occurs. If you have this kind of demand it wont be cycling so many times in 5 minutes (not like a water logged well) it will be running continuously unless it reaches cut out.
We use the term "demand" but it really isn't, its a pressure setting that has been reached by demand. When it drops below that obviously there is more demand than the pump can make up.
(my comp just came on) I need to look for leaks) but in my own case as I said, got 2 units, the second is a rickety old timer 3/4 worn out but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, due to tank size and demand cycles really doesn't matter but .05% and even then wouldnt be an absolute deal breaker, would have to wait a couple mins and actually it took me a bit a while back to figure out I hadn't turned something on for sandblast which is remote and away from the comps especially in cold weather, another building etc but I got to listen and only one was running, duh, I sized the tip and knew I should be able to work continuous, when I raan out of air iknew something was up,,, simple switch I forgot to turn on.
Both are old, was cheap and easy to put unit 2 on, I used it twice, maybe 3 times last year, sandblast a couple and this year didn't even turn it on to blow some piping, just let it recharge when I changed hook ons.
We use the term "demand" but it really isn't, its a pressure setting that has been reached by demand. When it drops below that obviously there is more demand than the pump can make up.
(my comp just came on) I need to look for leaks) but in my own case as I said, got 2 units, the second is a rickety old timer 3/4 worn out but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, due to tank size and demand cycles really doesn't matter but .05% and even then wouldnt be an absolute deal breaker, would have to wait a couple mins and actually it took me a bit a while back to figure out I hadn't turned something on for sandblast which is remote and away from the comps especially in cold weather, another building etc but I got to listen and only one was running, duh, I sized the tip and knew I should be able to work continuous, when I raan out of air iknew something was up,,, simple switch I forgot to turn on.
Both are old, was cheap and easy to put unit 2 on, I used it twice, maybe 3 times last year, sandblast a couple and this year didn't even turn it on to blow some piping, just let it recharge when I changed hook ons.
Antique Engine
Well-known member
To the original poster.....
I chose a Champion from TP Tools. Mine being an 80 gallon horizontal, it was not a terribly common model so Champion built it for me and shipped it direct from the factory. It took a couple of weeks to receive it from time of order to picking it up at the freight warehouse. As far as the made in America deal, I'm pretty convinced that my Champion truly is US manufactured throughout.
On the compressor head itself.
On the motor. Hard to see in this pic, but its USA.
I run my media blast cabinets for hours on end every day with it. It cycles on and off very comfortably without any concern for running too long. It is pleasingly quiet too. I stand at one of my cabinets about 12 feet away from it and talk on my phone while I'm blasting and the compressor kicking on and off doesn't disrupt the conversation.
I chose a Champion from TP Tools. Mine being an 80 gallon horizontal, it was not a terribly common model so Champion built it for me and shipped it direct from the factory. It took a couple of weeks to receive it from time of order to picking it up at the freight warehouse. As far as the made in America deal, I'm pretty convinced that my Champion truly is US manufactured throughout.
On the compressor head itself.
On the motor. Hard to see in this pic, but its USA.
I run my media blast cabinets for hours on end every day with it. It cycles on and off very comfortably without any concern for running too long. It is pleasingly quiet too. I stand at one of my cabinets about 12 feet away from it and talk on my phone while I'm blasting and the compressor kicking on and off doesn't disrupt the conversation.
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sberry
Banned
We have been talking in general so, I forget exact but basically I got both cutoff set at 175, all the tanks plumbed together and the cut in on the primary at 130 maybe,,, and the cut in on the secondary at 120 maybe,,,, would have to look, I remember my engineer bud standing around when I installed the second. I remember discussing it as I needed a contactor and he came over with one he scored from salvage.
Anyway, when 1st cant keep up second comes on and in true hi demand like sandblast have it sized that both run continuous as per demand without shutting off until I shut off the air, the system air stays 100-125, maybe depending on nozzle wear, doesn't drop the rest of the connected equipment to un usable.
Unlike electric demands there is some stored energy cushion, I can sand, run down on air, wait a couple mins and pick the sander up just before the comp shuts off to make run continuous (so I am not using air without the unit running waiting till it hits kick on etc) I am not sure if I express this clearly.
A watch or clock with a second hand could help but as an equipment operator get familiar with the machine capacity in a couple cycles and can apply the load to get the most from it. Automatic would only make it stupid proof and only take a little error out of it on occasion, the operator wants to re apply the load just before it kicks off on hi pressure, if demand is higher than the pump it stays running, you could watch a gage also,,,,,,,,,,,,, when the pressure falls to less than good in a cabinet, stop, watch ga, turn back on when its within 10 psi of shutting down, no need to modify the unit.
sberry
Banned
My primary is like the one above except for 1 thing. It has a 3 hp motor with run of 18.
That motor fall under some code and NEMA stuff because of its power class, someone splained this way long ago to me and I forget or was snoozing but its a 3.2 5 hp motor while other 5 hp are rated different,,, a long story that has not been made exactly clear in this forum and needs a mind greater than my own,, but these are really nice as they do run a bit more on some occasions than a larger one but are friendly to the electric system.
That motor fall under some code and NEMA stuff because of its power class, someone splained this way long ago to me and I forget or was snoozing but its a 3.2 5 hp motor while other 5 hp are rated different,,, a long story that has not been made exactly clear in this forum and needs a mind greater than my own,, but these are really nice as they do run a bit more on some occasions than a larger one but are friendly to the electric system.
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sberry
Banned
That little green Champ above is a beautiful unit but I aint standing around sandblasting for hours, if that's the case its not going to hurt the unit but its a job if it added up to any significant time the comp is too small. Whole thing is too small. It needs that much more additional. I would be trying to find the spot where it run cont if I could.
Are these media cabinets automatic?
Are these media cabinets automatic?
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Antique Engine
Well-known member
You have no idea what my operation is like.
I process and powdercoat hundreds of delicate car, bicycle, and antique motorcycle parts. Every single part has to have due attention to detail given it. There is no rushing it by using bigger processes. My reputation and success have been built by fussing over countless individual parts.
Sure, I could pull out my big blaster and do them faster, but that's not going to allow the results I'm expected to deliver. Instead I do the parts in small batches. I might spend an hour at the cabinet, then coat for an hour, and so on all day. My compressor runs at I'd estimate 30-40 percent duty cycle when I'm blasting continuously. In an 8 hour workday, maybe 2 hours run time.
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Trey T
Well-known member
Yeah, I had to read the reply from justanengineer and jotted down a few numbers to make sense. Basically like this:
Pump #1: 145psi ON; 175psi OFF
Pump #2: 130psi ON; 160psi OFF
Thanks guys.
Pump #1: 145psi ON; 175psi OFF
Pump #2: 130psi ON; 160psi OFF
Thanks guys.
sberry
Banned
Yes, I agree I didn't know the powder coaters process for air, free chance to show your work and I did figure/wonder if it was matched. To the post above, yes justengineer got it right, I do the same as my second is a relic and at that point it doesn't matter.
Antique Engine, that's a good looking outfit, I would sure like to know which compressor that is. Every square inch of floor space is valuable, would like to look at that in a vertical.
Sims5, thank you for the link, I am seriously considering the 7.5hp, 3 cylinder, single phase. The 74db, 800rpm compressor, longer warranty along with price puts it as a front runner so far. Got a delivery quote today and going to call tomorrow with a couple of questions.
I do appreciate the help.
Sims5, thank you for the link, I am seriously considering the 7.5hp, 3 cylinder, single phase. The 74db, 800rpm compressor, longer warranty along with price puts it as a front runner so far. Got a delivery quote today and going to call tomorrow with a couple of questions.
I do appreciate the help.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
You realize that's the same compressor as the vertical you posted to start this thread??
This is mine, 5HP vertical 80 gal tank.
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3v0
Active member
To distribute the wear between two compressors all you need to do is have them swap roles maybe once a year or once every 6 months. Should not be harder then adjusting the cut in pressure on each of them.
Antique Engine
Well-known member
He is correct. It's just an 80 gallon Champion. I specified a horizontal tank for my preference as to where I installed it. TP Tools sold it to me with free shipping for something like 1700 odd dollars. Champion had to build it since horizontal tank units are so uncommon nowadays. They built it and shipped it to my local SAIA Motor Freight terminal. SAIA called me when it arrived and I drove over there and they forklifted it into my truck. Painless deal really. All TP Tools did was take my money and act as the middle man. They never laid hands on the unit. I'm very happy with it after years of struggling with other compressors and would absolutely buy it again.
Antique Engine
Well-known member
It is a Centurion with the mag starter. I get the TP Tools sale flyer in my mailbox periodically. They had the compressors on sale.
I found an older red, 5hp, single stage Champion, model # VSC5-8 mounted on a 120gal. tank. I can't find any spec's on it anywhere. I would rather have a 2 stage but for the price I could replace the compressor on this one. Anybody know where I can find any info?
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Champion is usually pretty quick to reply to emails. Or you might try calling.