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Another "getting hosed by the city" thread

CARS

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Jan 19, 2011
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535
Location
New Ulm, MN
Seems to be a common thing these days, the city municipality is screwing the tax payer... again.

The state "turned over" the highway in front of my shop to the county. The repaving was sub contracted out to a local company and was over $100,000.00 under what the state had paid the county to do the work. That is great. The extra funds will just go to other county projects.

As long as the road was being tore up the city figured it would be a good time to update the infrastructure. New sewer, water, hydrants, etc. This is all to be paid with taxpayer money/utility bills. That too is all fine.

The problem is with the curb and gutter. I've talked to the county a few times over the last couple months. Curb and gutter is figured into the bid for the highway re-paving BUT the city is going to assess the curb and gutter to each property owners taxes! So it doesn't cost the city a damn thing, but yet they are going to charge roughly $1.00 a foot for curb and close to $3.00 a foot for driveway approaches.

Because the funding that the state got from the feds to give to the county when they took the hwy over came from some "special grant" or something like that there are even more stipulations on how things get done. For example, the maximum driveway approach width is 32'. My existing driveway is 46'. And while this doesn't apply to me, my neighbors across the road can't have 2 driveways like they currently do (think U shape).

Has anyone successfully sued their municipality? I think I can get 99% of the people who are affected by this on board. They aren't happy about this either but we never knew that the curb and gutter was in the road bid until recently when the county guys started talking.

Back in '98 we had a tornado go threw town and the city did the same thing. It took FEMA money for the city roads and added the curb and gutter to everyone's taxes. It was wrong to do then, and wrong now.
 
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NUTTSGT

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Northern Central Ohio
I'd make a call or stop by the local MN DOT office. It sounds like the state already paid for it all before turning it over to the county and sounds like the city is trying to make some money off something they're not paying for.

Do you have a TV news investigator ? Maybe they would be interested in it too.
 

Chaznsc

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Apr 9, 2013
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SC
You may need to speak with someone who knows the local law in your area, BUT I don't think they can assess the owners without a special "district" being set up for such assessments. This is because everyone chips in on road projects by paying all sorts of different taxes.

The charge of $1 a foot for curbing doesnt make sense because curb and gutter is an easy $12 a foot item.

I'd advise organizing yourselves and start rattling cages of the decision makers (county council members, etc).
 
OP
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CARS

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Jan 19, 2011
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535
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New Ulm, MN
I really don't know where to start. The 1/2 of town that got hosed years ago says "it's only fair, We had to pay too" are going to be pissed at me. It's a small town (around 300) and it doesn't take too much to make life miserable if you stir the pot.

I wonder if I should contact a lawyer first? Some crazy sob that wants to make a name for themselves.

Then again, if the city is counting on that money they will just over tax us all in the future to cover the money they would be loosing.

Its a tough situation when you know EVERYONE in town.
 

OccupantRJ

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May 15, 2009
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Eastern North Carolina
A housing development near me sued the city for annexing the subdivision into the city and won. It ended up in the state courts and legislature before it was over. The subdivision reverted back to county status. In fact, as I understand it, cities in NC can no longer annex county areas without a high percentage of homeowner's approval, and how many are going to do that? The new law was great for me, as I am almost surrounded by city, being right on the fringe of things.
 

krapie

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Apr 3, 2007
Messages
49
Location
Bluffton, IN
How much are you going to spend to save? Your driveway approach is going to cost you $138, not sure of your lot size, but at $1 a foot, your going to need a lot of curb to afford a lawyer.
 
OP
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CARS

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Jan 19, 2011
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Location
New Ulm, MN
How much are you going to spend to save? Your driveway approach is going to cost you $138, not sure of your lot size, but at $1 a foot, your going to need a lot of curb to afford a lawyer.

I wish the city would give me exact answers. Because you are right. Wouldn't be worth it.

Time to put some pressure on the city office.
 

pmiranda

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Austin, TX
Yeah, it *****, but it's not a ton of money. Still, it's worth complaining to a local TV station or newspaper, which is free.
 

jimindm

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Oct 29, 2011
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Des Moines, Iowa
I wish the city would give me exact answers. Because you are right. Wouldn't be worth it.

Time to put some pressure on the city office.

Unless you have several hundred feet of frontage, I could not imagine a lawyer would be less. At the prices that you have been told, I would have as much paved and as much curb as you could get.
 

Higgins

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Dec 25, 2009
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Shepheardsville, KY
In dealing with road issues, it would cost you a small fortune to have an engineer and lawyer look into the mater! First they are going to investigate what the state was going to do! What where the conditions / agreement when turned over to the county, etc.... what was proposed work to be done, review their bid request for the road work along with a copy of the wining bid and see what falls out!

All that information is available, now whether they will provide you a copy, well who knows! HOWEVER, they have to turn them over to you should you file a Freedom of Information Act!

An issue like that could run you $20K to $50K easily!

As for charging the tax payer, here in IL, any governmental body can create a SSA (Special Service Assessment) to perform some type of work, and charge it back to the home / business owners!

Good Luck - AL
 
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Charles (in GA)

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50 mi south of Atlanta
It is quite common for cities to charge adjoining property owners for curb and gutter. Its done all the time. Indeed, its not a lot of money, and while you should look into it, and holler real loud, it isn't worth getting a lawyer over.

Charles
 

jd_1138

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May 8, 2013
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NE Ohio
Our town put in new sewer lines and made every homeowner pay $1,500 to tie into it. They had a grant to pay for the tie in for about 25% of the homeowners, but by the time we heard about it, the grant money was gone. Our neighbor owns 4 rental properties, and is well-off, but the city gave him all 4 sewer tie ins for free. I couldn't believe it. I told the clerk at the municipal building that they should've made it income-based or at least limit it to a person's actual residence. She just replied: "it was first come, first serve, have a nice day." :( Government agencies are sometimes nuts.
 

SignalZero

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Apr 4, 2013
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Central Florida
Our town put in new sewer lines and made every homeowner pay $1,500 to tie into it. They had a grant to pay for the tie in for about 25% of the homeowners, but by the time we heard about it, the grant money was gone. Our neighbor owns 4 rental properties, and is well-off, but the city gave him all 4 sewer tie ins for free. I couldn't believe it. I told the clerk at the municipal building that they should've made it income-based or at least limit it to a person's actual residence. She just replied: "it was first come, first serve, have a nice day." :( Government agencies are sometimes nuts.

Or county is doing this to a certain area that has been having a problem with their sewer system. All the residents were crying that the county should just pay for it.
But this is a low-income/high crime area filled with the kinds of people who will always call law enforcement to solve all their personal problems instead of getting professional help, or call an ambulance to take them to the ER(and never pay the bills) instead of going to a normal doctor. As far as I'm concerned, the real tax payers of this county already buy these people more than their share, so they can pay for their sewer line.

If your town was charging everyone a flat rate and got a grant for 25% of the homes, why didn't they just reduce everyone's cost by 25%?
 

wellpoison

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Oct 14, 2011
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617
Location
Windber PA
Same thing happened here to the sewer system. Except they extended service to homeowners who always had septic tanks as well and made them pay the tap in fee and made them pay someone to come do the work. It couldn't be done by the homeowner. Many older people who couldn't afford the tap in plus contractor fees tried to sell their homes quick before the city put a lien on them. They were given two months to have it all done. Thankfully my parents and other family who live in a small community weren't effected. It's ridiculous what some townships can do. This same township just built a brand new building that it didn't needed but raised taxes 75% for this year because they are out of money. Investigations are happening now. It might be a good idea to stand up to this in case something else would happen in the future. At least it shows you don't want to be walked on.
 
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CARS

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Jan 19, 2011
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535
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New Ulm, MN
Today got more interesting.

I agree with some that I should push, and I agree I should lay...

I called the county guy and I will not put words in his mouth, but he understood my concerns. After my last Fireman's meeting a few us us were talking and that is where I seemed to stir things up. County guy had a talking to by the City guy. Like I said, I will not say or put words in his mouth, but I think I am on to something here.

So he is sending me all documents (ya, scary. It might be thousands of pages????) because of the freedom of information act. I'm done dragging him through the mud, he is just doing his job and seems like an understanding, stand-up guy.

So feeling good about myself and my achievements, I google FEMA and ask them for the same information about the relief the city received after the '98 Tornado. That should even be better reading....

So, the pot is stirred, (not smoked, but has been blown) and we will see what the powers to be say.

Will I get a lawyer to sue? Doubt it. We'll see what I find out, spread the truth, and see what the general public feels WE should do. Hell, you can always sue after the fact right? You hit my car tomorrow and the insurance lawyers can drag it out for years!

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I Knew I could count on such a diverse group of people, with different backgrounds, experiences, and lifestyles for a good mix of thoughts.

(I will not call any of you in to testify. I swear on the GJ bible!)
 

K13

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Oct 24, 2007
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St. Albert, AB Canada
Don't know about you but I can think of WAY better ways to spend my time than chasing down people and documents to save $138.00.
 

trainman1385

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Dec 13, 2012
Messages
215
Location
Utah
I don't know where to start, so if my ramblings don't make sense I am sorry. First the curbing I am on a current city councilman, if you are only being assessed a dollar a foot this is heavily subsidized, In our city it has run about $14 a foot for our particular style of curbing, Secondly alot of what you are forced to do by local government is a direct result of your state and federal governement imposing their will upon you. The EPA has mandated that with very few exceptions that you will hook into a sewer treatment system by a pre determined date. If you have a lagoon system in your city now you will by 2020 you will have a regular sewer treatment plant . The list goes on. That being said the most intrusive form of government is local government, but if we continue down teh path we are on as a nation it will soon be the federal government..
 

Stuart in MN

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Minneapolis
The EPA has mandated that with very few exceptions that you will hook into a sewer treatment system by a pre determined date. If you have a lagoon system in your city now you will by 2020 you will have a regular sewer treatment plant .

The wastewater treatment plant in Comfrey was updated last year, so that's not an issue. I'm not familiar with the road project but did find an online news story about it: http://www.nujournal.com/page/conte...ments-for-County-Road-16-below-estimates.html
 
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