Another help me heat my pole barn thread...

[FreezingBarn]

Lurker here, but it's that time of year, yes, another help me heat my pole barn thread. Here's what I've got:

• 48X32 pole shed with 11' side walls
• R19 Silvercote insulation installed on the side walls
• This is in Minnesota... it gets COLD.

Here is my list of requirements:

• There will be no ceiling attached to the bottom of the trusses, the trusses will remain exposed (i.e. no blown in insulation)
• No additional framed walls, the shop will remain wide open like in the picture
• Shop will remain unfinished
• Trying to keep it relatively aesthetically pleasing...

I plan to use it as a little bit of a man cave, little bit of a shop. I'd anticipate 1 hour a day on average with 4 hour days every 1-2 weeks in the winter. If I could heat it up to ~50 degrees relatively quickly I'd be thrilled. I'm also running out of room in the budget to spend much more on this.

Here's what I've ruled out:

• The slab is done, there will be no in floor heating.
• Spray in insulation wouldn't be doable until the spring, is too expensive, and I've heard it can warp the metal roofing, I'm ruling this out.

Here's my current line of thought:

1. Insulate the ceiling with R30 silvercote faced blankets between the purlins (similar to the side wall).
   • I'm thinking about just completely sealing/filling in the ridge vent and cupola (that's the light in the middle). Thoughts?
   • I'm also thinking about adding some rigid foam board with foamed edges before adding the blankets, maybe R5-R10 boards plus R30 seems like a good number. Thoughts?
   • I may need to add some more beef to the sides, but not 100% sure.
   • There are some vents/seals on doors/garage door/etc. that I'll have to seal up.
2. If I do all that, is there a heating solution available that will suit my needs? Would it be possible to heat this thing to ~50 degrees if it's 0 outside? Options:
   • Infrared electric
   • LP furnace
   • Combo heat pump and propane torches?
   • Nuclear reactor

Here's really what I'm trying to determine.

1. Will this insulation approach work?
2. What heating option should I go with based on all the other requirements?

I appreciate any input you all can provide. I know I'm facing an uphill battle.

 

[VT JD]

If you have a ridge vent and cupola I assume you would also have soffit vents. If this is the case the building was probably built to have a ceiling with insulation above with proper attic ventilation.
In order to insulate as you are considering, you would also have to block all the soffit vents, if they exist.
I am not sure why you are opting for no ceiling, but it might be your best option in the long run to frame in-between your trusses with 2X lumber and install a vapour barrier and ribbed steel with blown in insulation, probably R50 for your climate.
You should be able to compare the costs of this type of option compared to your current plan to decide what is best.
If cost is a deterrent, you could frame it in and install the steel and run a torpedo heater this winter and insulate next year.
Just a thought.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Insulate, insulate, INSULATE ! Get the ceiling/roof drone before doing ANYTHING ELSE ! R30 would be a minimum, R50 would better. Long term you might want to add more to the walls.

• Electric resistance heat is typically the cheapest and easiest to install but it is also the most expensive to operate.
• LP is in the middle for installation costs and operating costs. You are at he mercy of the market for fuel prices
• Mini-split heat pump is probably the most expensive to install, but the cheapest to operate. For a building your size, you would likely need 2 heat pumps and 4 sir handlers to get good distribution. When you are down below -10F they will need help. Bonus is free A/C !

Have you thought about splitting the area into heated and non-heated spaces ? It would save you a lot of $$$$ !

 

[TonyG109]

I think FreezingBarn is an appropriate name as it stands right now!

Insulation and air sealing are the most important items to be done anytime climate control is a consideration. Without this being done, I don't think you'll have much luck heating it short of the nuclear reactor option!

Just a few thoughts...

I know you don't want to, but installing a ceiling is a great option. It makes insulating much easier, reduces the cubic feet needed to heat/cool and helps keep the heated air lower where it can be appreciated.

If you can't insulate until spring, I wouldn't use any type of unvented heater such as a torpedo, propane or kerosene convection. These will add tons of moisture to the air which will condense on that cold roof metal. It will then drip and possibly run down the ceiling into the wall insulation.

Radiant or electric heat as a temporary measure is probably your best option until you are able to insulate. But without ceiling insulation, I don't think you'll be able to economically achieve 50 deg on a 0 deg day with any type of heat source.

 

[FreezingBarn]

All right, I'm giving in. It sounds like the only way to do this is to steel out the ceiling and blow in insulation to like R50.

• So I need to buy more steel, trim, bags of insulation, anything else?
  • Do I need poly for anything?
• The trusses are 8' on center, I'm dreading asking, but I'm assuming I'll need to put some 2x4's with joist hangers between the trusses for added support.

I assume if I do all that, I'm in good shape insulation wise. My wallet on the other hand, not so good. The other issue is finding someone to do it, I'm not too great at that stuff and contractors are very difficult to find.

Does this sound like a better plan?

 

[greenskeeper]

Find someone converting to gas, and get their old oil furnace for FREE! Plumb it in and let that sucker run.

 

[gmcgeo]

well oil isn't cheap, then the cost and time to clean the thing.

 

[gmcgeo]

Lurker here, but it's that time of year, yes, another help me heat my pole barn thread. Here's what I've got:

• 48X32 pole shed with 11' side walls
• R19 Silvercote insulation installed on the side walls
• This is in Minnesota... it gets COLD.

Here is my list of requirements:

• There will be no ceiling attached to the bottom of the trusses, the trusses will remain exposed (i.e. no blown in insulation)
• No additional framed walls, the shop will remain wide open like in the picture
• Shop will remain unfinished
• Trying to keep it relatively aesthetically pleasing...

I plan to use it as a little bit of a man cave, little bit of a shop. I'd anticipate 1 hour a day on average with 4 hour days every 1-2 weeks in the winter. If I could heat it up to ~50 degrees relatively quickly I'd be thrilled. I'm also running out of room in the budget to spend much more on this.

Here's what I've ruled out:

• The slab is done, there will be no in floor heating.
• Spray in insulation wouldn't be doable until the spring, is too expensive, and I've heard it can warp the metal roofing, I'm ruling this out.

Here's my current line of thought:

1. Insulate the ceiling with R30 silvercote faced blankets between the purlins (similar to the side wall).
   • I'm thinking about just completely sealing/filling in the ridge vent and cupola (that's the light in the middle). Thoughts?
   • I'm also thinking about adding some rigid foam board with foamed edges before adding the blankets, maybe R5-R10 boards plus R30 seems like a good number. Thoughts?
   • I may need to add some more beef to the sides, but not 100% sure.
   • There are some vents/seals on doors/garage door/etc. that I'll have to seal up.
2. If I do all that, is there a heating solution available that will suit my needs? Would it be possible to heat this thing to ~50 degrees if it's 0 outside? Options:
   • Infrared electric
   • LP furnace
   • Combo heat pump and propane torches?
   • Nuclear reactor

Here's really what I'm trying to determine.

1. Will this insulation approach work?
2. What heating option should I go with based on all the other requirements?

I appreciate any input you all can provide. I know I'm facing an uphill battle.

To heat this with no insulation as is with a unit heater you need 138,000 btus.

To heat this with insulation in place you will need 65,000 about.

This is based on getting it to 50 deg.

also based on a unit heater, Modine or what ever your choice. Or look into a mini split or high Efficient lp furnace with ac coil

 

[TonyG109]

All right, I'm giving in. It sounds like the only way to do this is to steel out the ceiling and blow in insulation to like R50.

• So I need to buy more steel, trim, bags of insulation, anything else?
  • Do I need poly for anything?
• The trusses are 8' on center, I'm dreading asking, but I'm assuming I'll need to put some 2x4's with joist hangers between the trusses for added support.

I assume if I do all that, I'm in good shape insulation wise. My wallet on the other hand, not so good. The other issue is finding someone to do it, I'm not too great at that stuff and contractors are very difficult to find.

Does this sound like a better plan?

I think you're on the right track now! I can't give specific advice, but I'm sure the ceiling metal will require additional support. This will be determined by the specs for the metal being used (how far it can span) and the trusses (how much weight they can support).

A vapor barrier will be determined by code and your local conditions but I'm thinking that not much moisture will penetrate metal. Air leaks are, perhaps, more of a concern for moisture movement and condensation. Warm moist air rising up through any available paths can find cooler conditions that may cause condensation in the insulation.

Hopefully, you can find a contractor that understands these concepts and can make the proper recommendations for your specific needs and perform a proper installation.

Be sure to keep us informed on your long term progress. Especially the steps taken and your satisfaction with the end results so we can all learn from your experience!