Another lighting question and electrican cost.... lol

[Sherrodmustang]

Hello,

I have a 18x20 metal building that is not insulated with A-frame roof. The legs are 9' and work up to appr 12' in height.

Looking at installing electricty in the building at the end of the month. What is the correct amount of lighting for this size building (360sq ft)?

I know I want to go with T8 bulbs and electronic ballast for easy start no flicker. Any recommendation from the big box stores (Lowes, HD, ETC...)?

Also I was qouted $1300 for the entire install with me trenching out the backyard about 8' myeself . This is for everything, sub panel box, outlets, security lights, 220v connection, etc...

 

[Speedy Petey]

Also I was qouted $1300 for the entire install with me trenching out the backyard about 8' myeself . This is for everything, sub panel box, outlets, security lights, 220v connection, etc...

NO WAY that was from a real electrician. Had to be a handyman type, or s side jobber.
I wouldn't think your part of AL is that behind the times pricing wise.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

NO WAY that was from a real electrician. Had to be a handyman type, or s side jobber.
I wouldn't think your part of AL is that behind the times pricing wise.

Lol... A real electrician gave me that quote.

Is the price good or bad?

 

[Steevo]

That is a fantastic bargain.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

That is a fantastic bargain.

Good... I had no clue what to expect price wise.

Kinda ignorant when it comes to home electricity.

Here some pictures of the shop!

and a picture of the inside and the way the roof is made.

Was going to at first have lights mounted to the center eve inside the building where a flat brace is on the celling. But after looking at averybodys pictures and such. It looks like I will need a lot more lighting than 4 4' two bulb fixtures. This is what I was qouted at and think it will not be enough.

Was thinking about doing hanging fixtures from the metal post/roof rafters that are 5 feet a part in the building. So three on each side for a total of 6 fixtures.

What would be a good T8 light fixture to pickup from Lowes ot HD? 2 bulb, 4 bulb ot what? Something that is going to last and have great light coverage for my shop(18x20 360sq ft)

Also.. want them all hard wired no pull chain, everything on a switch. If that makes any difference on the light fixture needed.

Plus.. just out of curosity, how is the light wired from a hanging fixture? Not hooked up wise, but ran with what type of wire and is it covered in a metal conduit or flexible cover?... I know nothing.. lol

I guess what I need to know is. If I go ahead and hang the light fixtures I want in the place I want them and just have the electrician do the wiring and such would that make a huge problem for him? I would think that would make job easier as all he has to do is run the wires to the fixtures and then to a switch and the sub panel box.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

Something like this...

x6

http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fans-Indoor-Lighting-Industrial-Shop-Lighting/Lithonia-Lighting/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbvnqZwv/R-100543144/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Then 5000k bulbs T8

 

[Stee6043]

Something like this...

x6

http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fans-Indoor-Lighting-Industrial-Shop-Lighting/Lithonia-Lighting/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbvnqZwv/R-100543144/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Then 5000k bulbs T8

I just instralled a bunch of these Lithonia fixtures from HD (both 4' and 8'). You will not be able to "hang" these fxtures below the ceiling. They are meant to be surface mounted to the ceiling which, in my opinion, looks cleaner than hanging fixtures from chains in a garage setting.

Check out the bulbs before you buy a bulk pack. I ended up with 4100K. I felt like moving past 4100K became too blue for my tastes.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

I just instralled a bunch of these Lithonia fixtures from HD (both 4' and 8'). You will not be able to "hang" these fxtures below the ceiling. They are meant to be surface mounted to the ceiling which, in my opinion, looks cleaner than hanging fixtures from chains in a garage setting.

Check out the bulbs before you buy a bulk pack. I ended up with 4100K. I felt like moving past 4100K became too blue for my tastes.

Gotcha... how would you think it would look on a curved celling? Just mounted flush on the celling beams? Maybe x6 8' two bulb fixture lights.

The celling goes from 9' sides up to about 12' or so on the eve.

 

[IONH]

Didn't read every word of the thread. But many electricians will give one quote to get the job and then "unforeseen circumstances" cause it to inflate substantially.

Might want to get a detailed list of what they will be doing (including depth of buried conduit and wire sizing/length/type) to cover your behind.

 

[Aceman]

The problem with buildings like that is there isn't hardly any structure. So it makes it tough to strap conduits, mount boxes, etc. It seems like I end up spending more time making something to secure the box or conduit too than I do running the actual conduit.

I'd probably install three 8' T8 4 lamp strips on jack chain. One at the peak and two on the sides.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

With that slab sticking out from the building, I'd caulk the daylights out of the base of the building, otherwise you are going to have water work its way under the sheetmetal and bottom tube of the building structure. Slab should have been dimensioned better than this.

Charles

 

[Sherrodmustang]

Didn't read every word of the thread. But many electricians will give one quote to get the job and then "unforeseen circumstances" cause it to inflate substantially.

Might want to get a detailed list of what they will be doing (including depth of buried conduit and wire sizing/length/type) to cover your behind.

Will do that... Everything has been just gone over in person when he stop by to look things over. Then just gave me a call to tell me what the quote price was and setup a date for the install.

The problem with buildings like that is there isn't hardly any structure. So it makes it tough to strap conduits, mount boxes, etc. It seems like I end up spending more time making something to secure the box or conduit too than I do running the actual conduit.

I'd probably install three 8' T8 4 lamp strips on jack chain. One at the peak and two on the sides.

I can see what you are talking about. The structure only has so many studs and celling supports. Basically three supports 5 feet apart for 20 feet total.

With that slab sticking out from the building, I'd caulk the daylights out of the base of the building, otherwise you are going to have water work its way under the sheetmetal and bottom tube of the building structure. Slab should have been dimensioned better than this.

Charles

I agree... I have already noticed this... lol.

Caulked the mess outside and inside with a polyurethane caulk. Then epoxy the floor with epoxy-coat last weekend. Today was the first day it has rained since doing the caulking and floor. I did have one small leak coming from around where the walk-in door is installed. Dripping from the frame around the door. So once it dries out I am going to go back and add little more caulk in a few places.

Hopefully this solves the water issues....

 

[mrb]

$1300? all i can say is check their license and verify their insurance coverage (including workers comp)

so many contractors dont carry workers comp by claiming they have no employees. then they have a helper. and he gets hurt while working on your (soon to be his) house....

 

[Speedy Petey]

Didn't read every word of the thread. But many electricians will give one quote to get the job and then "unforeseen circumstances" cause it to inflate substantially.

And many customers will ask for a certain job, then make lots of changes after work has begun, and expect the price not to go up.
It works both ways.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

$1300? all i can say is check their license and verify their insurance coverage (including workers comp)

so many contractors dont carry workers comp by claiming they have no employees. then they have a helper. and he gets hurt while working on your (soon to be his) house....

And many customers will ask for a certain job, then make lots of changes after work has begun, and expect the price not to go up.
It works both ways.

This is their ad page!

http://www.thewiredoctor.net/

"With Gorman Cassidy, our licensed electrician, we are committed to providing you with fast, prompt, and professional service."

This is who came to my house.

Licenses, Certifications, Accreditations

•Fully Insured / Bonded / Bondable
•Master Electrician
•Licensed Insured Master

On side note...

I went to Lowes and picked up a single T8 fixture tonight to see the quality of the fixture. Not sure what I think just as of yet to be honest.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&productId=3684850&cId=

It is a dual bulb T8 black housing fixture w/electronic ballast. It comes on quick and has zero flicker or humming noise. But, the light it puts out is not very good. Maybe it is the black housing itself and not the normal white or the GE 6500K bulbs?

Was planning on hanging 6 dual bulb light fixtures and 4 dual bulb fixtures down the center of the eve?

Total of 20 T8 bulbs

 

[IONH]

And many customers will ask for a certain job, then make lots of changes after work has begun, and expect the price not to go up.
It works both ways.

Sure it does. But we're talking about this guy wanting his garage wired for power with a handful of fixtures (defined at the start). Not some guy going from "I want the trench over at this end (30 feet down the structure) instead of here (closest to the main dwelling)."

If the customer changes the requirements, then the price deserves to change. If the estimate did not fully research the job before providing it, that should be for the electrician to eat.

 

[eljefino]

I don't get why they'd make a black non reflective housing? Who are they going to impress?

Bulbs take a while of breaking in to reach full brightness, but you probably still won't like it. On the plus side the light colored walls and ceiling will help your light situation.

I wonder about sticking the lights on those roof supports (parallel to them), it might work kind of all right. Start down near the walls so the light goes down the side of your car. Without 2x4 studs this is probably going to be an all conduit job.

 

[Garage Flooring]

The correct amount of light to use is a matter of how you will be using the space. From that there are charts you can use to determine the appropriate amount of foot candles and go from there.

http://eeref.engr.oregonstate.edu/@api/deki/files/993/=Footcandle_Recommendations.pdf

http://www.theledlight.com/lumens.html

If this is just for storage than I would not stress about it. If it is for other applications, the color of the walls, floors, etc will also affect how much light you want

 

[Sherrodmustang]

Sure it does. But we're talking about this guy wanting his garage wired for power with a handful of fixtures (defined at the start). Not some guy going from "I want the trench over at this end (30 feet down the structure) instead of here (closest to the main dwelling)."

If the customer changes the requirements, then the price deserves to change. If the estimate did not fully research the job before providing it, that should be for the electrician to eat.

Lol... yeah!

The trenching location is not changing. I am actually going to do this part myself and is not included in the price quote at all. I knew this would be very expensive to labor out and it is something I can tackle myself over a weekend.

The only thing that might change is adding a few more light fixtures to the mix, nothing major.

I don't get why they'd make a black non reflective housing? Who are they going to impress?

Bulbs take a while of breaking in to reach full brightness, but you probably still won't like it. On the plus side the light colored walls and ceiling will help your light situation.

I wonder about sticking the lights on those roof supports (parallel to them), it might work kind of all right. Start down near the walls so the light goes down the side of your car. Without 2x4 studs this is probably going to be an all conduit job.

This is true on the light fixture.. Taking it back to Lowes tonight after work today. Just doesn't put out enough light out... kinda guessed that would be the case with a black housing that would absorb light.

Running the light parallel on the on the celling supports is a good ideal I believe. It will angle both light on each side and give a lot of light coverage.

Maybe two 4' dual bulb fixtures on each side. For a total of 12 4' dual light fixtures and 24 T8 bulbs.. should be plenty bright.

The correct amount of light to use is a matter of how you will be using the space. From that there are charts you can use to determine the appropriate amount of foot candles and go from there.

http://eeref.engr.oregonstate.edu/@api/deki/files/993/=Footcandle_Recommendations.pdf

http://www.theledlight.com/lumens.html

If this is just for storage than I would not stress about it. If it is for other applications, the color of the walls, floors, etc will also affect how much light you want

Not really going to be used as storage use. Plan on doing some work on my car from time to time out there at night, no bodywork or paint.

75-100 foot candle is what I am looking for in my space. Don't want to have to use task lighting for everything I do at night out there.

 

[Stee6043]

I don't think you'll ever find yourself wanting more light with 24 bulbs over 360 square feet, even with 12' ceilings. I've got 32 bulbs over 830 square feet, 10' ceilings, and for me it's perfect. But I never have them all on when the garage door is open at night. It's wicked bright...the neighbors would talk. ha.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

I don't think you'll ever find yourself wanting more light with 24 bulbs over 360 square feet, even with 12' ceilings. I've got 32 bulbs over 830 square feet, 10' ceilings, and for me it's perfect. But I never have them all on when the garage door is open at night. It's wicked bright...the neighbors would talk. ha.

Lol... thanks for that input. Want the neighbors to mind their own business..

What bulbs do you run in yours? Color temp and brand?

Checked out the 6500 K... but they are just to blue and not very much light. I want a nice bright clean white... like a operating room.

Is 5000k what I need or 4100k?

Sounds like the setup I will go with then. Plan on picking up all the fixtures tonight and start mounting them over the weekend. So the electrician will have nothing left to do but wire them up for me.

 

[Stee6043]

Lol... thanks for that input. Want the neighbors to mind their own business..

What bulbs do you run in yours? Color temp and brand?

Checked out the 6500 K... but they are just to blue and not very much light. I want a nice bright clean white... like a operating room.

Is 5000k what I need or 4100k?

Sounds like the setup I will go with then. Plan on picking up all the fixtures tonight and start mounting them over the weekend. So the electrician will have nothing left to do but wire them up for me.

I went with Philips (HD carries them exclusively I think) 4100K bulbs for my garage. 6500k was a no-go for me. I could have likely lived with 5000K but I thought 4100K was perfect.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

I went with Philips (HD carries them exclusively I think) 4100K bulbs for my garage. 6500k was a no-go for me. I could have likely lived with 5000K but I thought 4100K was perfect.

Sounds good! Most likely what I will go with.

Cheaper than 5000k and a lot easier to find.

6500k is just to blue for me.

 

[IONH]

Lol... yeah!

The trenching location is not changing. I am actually going to do this part myself and is not included in the price quote at all. I knew this would be very expensive to labor out and it is something I can tackle myself over a weekend.

The only thing that might change is adding a few more light fixtures to the mix, nothing major.

If you change the rules, don't complain when he changes the quote. Personally, I would leave everything as was agreed and add the lights after the job is done.

Actually, if he just put up switched outlets and left the lighting to you, you could do whatever you want with lighting afterward.

 

[Sherrodmustang]

Well... lights are hung and ready to be wired up.

Ended up going with T8 4 bulb fixtures, three on each side spaced 5" apart and 3" from the side wall. Total of 24 T8 4100K bulbs, should light the area up very well... lol

Now looking at a security dusk to dawn light for the eve of the garage. Really digging the Lithonia LED wall light.... pretty expensive at $179 at HD... but, a lot of good reviews and looks pretty sweet.

 

[Motofixxer]

My advice is multiple light banks so you turn on what you need and switched outlets so you can add or change your lighting.

 

[aka Larry]

Now looking at a security dusk to dawn light for the eve of the garage. Really digging the Lithonia LED wall light.... pretty expensive at $179 at HD... but, a lot of good reviews and looks pretty sweet.

I bought two of these metal halide ones for $50 each at Lowes. They have the dusk-to-dawn function and produce a super bright white light.

 

[mikefromme]

This is their ad page!

http://www.thewiredoctor.net/

"With Gorman Cassidy, our licensed electrician, we are committed to providing you with fast, prompt, and professional service."

This is who came to my house.

Licenses, Certifications, Accreditations

•Fully Insured / Bonded / Bondable
•Master Electrician
•Licensed Insured Master

On side note...

I went to Lowes and picked up a single T8 fixture tonight to see the quality of the fixture. Not sure what I think just as of yet to be honest.

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&productId=3684850&cId=

It is a dual bulb T8 black housing fixture w/electronic ballast. It comes on quick and has zero flicker or humming noise. But, the light it puts out is not very good. Maybe it is the black housing itself and not the normal white or the GE 6500K bulbs?

Was planning on hanging 6 dual bulb light fixtures and 4 dual bulb fixtures down the center of the eve?

Total of 20 T8 bulbs

Did you ask about the "89 dollar whole house special?"

You should be able to get the price down a bit for just a garage

 

[Sherrodmustang]

Did you ask about the "89 dollar whole house special?"

You should be able to get the price down a bit for just a garage

Hahahaha.... maybe.. lol

Already ahead on the switched outlets. This is how all the lights are going to be wired in, just plug and play, receptacles on the celling.