Another MaxJax install w/ concrete "stuff"

[vwishndaetr]

I feel like there might be enough of these threads, but if there wasn't, here's another one.

Honestly, maybe there'll be something in here that'll benefit someone and/or I'll hear something that'll benefit me.

Cliff notes for some context:

• Bought the M6K lift as a Black Friday special through Home Depot in 2022. $3,240 all-in delivered to the house.
• At the time I didn't care whether the concrete was adequate - I was getting the lift regardless and then accommodating it to work if needed.
• Did some pilot-hole drilling to determine thickness. Turned out to be ~2-1/2" (likely 3" factoring in some blow-out from drilling and me drilling on a crack).
• Between an infinite # of house projects, car projects, project projects, having a kid, etc... It sat. For 3 years.

What a better way to celebrate 3 years with a lift than to, um, install it.

It's a 2-bay detached garage with some extra space between the doors, and plenty more space on one side. Who knows when it was built... Judging by the roof and it being the first roof, 15-20 years ago.

Started with a quick layout to get my position and spacing right. The depth of the garage allows me to utilize the full 8-ft height ceilings (clears the garage door, door opener, etc) and still has ~ 3ft between the front end of the car and the front wall. Not to mention, the layout of the new piers allows me to work into the existing cuts in the slab.

Drove in the GTI, Avalon, and old 2500 to ensure I have clearance to get in an out and hit all the lift points. Good breadth of cars... if these 3 work, anything else should work as well.



Long story short - the layout worked for me. I can get in and out of all cars with a little bit of contorting, but I can.

Long story long - I can't get out of the truck unless I open the rear cab to get out. This prevents me from latching the front door and cab when lifted. Who cares. If I really need to keep the doors closed, I'll throw it in neutral and roll it into the spot needed to hit the lifting points.

Long story longer - after a little more thinking and talking this over with a friend of mine that went through the same process a couple years ago, I decided to give myself the flexibility to move one of the posts out another 5-6" to add the little bit more I might need in the future. Please excuse all the lines I have drawn, I did move things a few times.

In summary, started with two 36"x36" piers with a plan to go 36" deep. To give myself the flexibility to go wider (as mentioned previously), the layout on the left was further widened to 44". It allows me to push the post out a smidge further come time to install anchors. The flexibility pairs well with my indecisiveness.

 

[vwishndaetr]

My brother came through to help me out, we started on Friday at about 3pm.

Rented a concrete saw from Home Depot, about $140 for 4 hrs (saw and blade). The blade was dull as ****, but it did the work. The skid steer did a lot to save on some of the grunt work and I am lucky have it.

Quick tangent: For anyone that has ever thought about getting a skid steer, stop waiting, and get one. If you have enough work around the house to justify it and to save your back (and time!), then it'll pay for itself the first 2-3 times you use it. Plenty of old machines out there that are reliable and have plenty of life left. 20 year old machines have had all the depreciation fall on the first few owners so all you have to do is to keep it running and free of leaks and it'll be worth what you paid years down the road...

Where was I... Yes, having a skid steer made light-work of removing the slabs in one piece. It spared me the hassle of making numerous cuts/breaking up the slabs to manageable pieces. I took them out in one go.

Once the slabs were out, the digging started. No fancy tools for this parts of the process. A shovel, pick axe, and brute force. My brother worked at one hole (the larger one - don't feel bad for him, he's in his 20s and he's an Ox), and I worked at the other.

After about 10-15 min of digging in my hole, I had a hard stop. Literally. Concrete below my concrete?

One thing that I've learned from the plethora of projects that have consumed my life is that no matter how much planning and thinking I do ahead of time, expect the unexpected.

About a foot down I hit concrete. A couple wacks with a 5lb sledge to test it's "stature" quickly revealed it wasn't going anywhere. What was it doing there? Your guess is as good as mine. All I can think of is that it was excess from another concrete job on the property, and a concrete truck was emptied and more or less used as "fill" for when this detached garage was built.

I did everything I was able to save money where I could, but at this point I was banking on this getting done in a timely manner. As my wife made the run to Home Depot to return the saw, I asked her to get the largest jack-hammer they have in the store plus a couple chisels.

Thank God. There is no way I was getting through it with anything else. Wish I documented the process a little more, but a another $160 for the Home Depot rental got us past the concrete and back to the dirt. On one side the concrete was about 6" thick. It tapered to 3in or so on the other side. Jack-hammer was worth every penny.

Tah dah! Concrete removal + another 2ft or so of digging, and we hit our 36" depth.

And this is where we left it by about 830pm the same night.

Two holes: 1st @ 36in x 44in x 36in deep, 2nd @ 36in x 36in x 36in deep. Needless to say, I was proud of what we got done in 5 hrs. Especially considering some of the hiccups. And did I mention? Clay is awful. If I had to do this again, I would be renting/buying another small hand-held type jack-hammer to help break up the clay. At depth, that stuff is rock solid.

 

[vwishndaetr]

Some other details...

Why 36"x36"? A friend of mine did this for his MaxJax, and the ole' "gutentight" test checks out. My friend actually dug his to 24" depth and I had every intention of mimicking that too, but somewhere between me asking the question and digging my holes I convinced myself he did 36" depth too. Either way... This is now beyond overkill for a 6,000lb lift.

I'll have 1 yd^3 of concrete in one hole and 1.22 yd^3 in the other. About 9,000lb of concrete after the pour. I know weight doesn't really mean anything for the lift, but between the weight of the concrete and the soil that would need to be moved to upheave the new piers, this thing is NOT going anywhere. At this point my "weak point" will be in the anchors. If that's done right, the install will withstand the test of time.

What you see in the last pic above is essentially where it stands today (we dug the holes a couple weeks ago). I have my rebar and epoxy procured and will do that next. Plan is tether into the existing slab on all 4 side of each hole. I'll drill into the existing slab and epoxy anchor the rebar into place. Have a pretty good sense of how that's going to lay out in my head.

Last thing I have to decide is whether to add vapor barrier or not. At that depth and distance from garage walls I really don't think moisture would ever be and issue, and I do like the idea of the concrete flowing into all the little crevices of the holes, but at the same time there was a vapor barrier installed under the existing slab, and that is likely why my garage was/is as dry as it is... I wouldn't want to mess that up.

Oh yea, plan is to order 4,000psi concrete with fibermesh. Had 3yds quoted @ $805 delivered which is kosher. I did the math, and if I bagged it (yea, I never would for this), it would be $795. So delivery all the way.

I'll update as this moves along. Hoping to have the holes filled with concrete by Christmas.

 

[AC-WC]

You'll never have problems with the base that's for sure. My 2 post has been in for 3 yrs and I've never regretted getting it. Money well spent for the building mods, lift and a few extra new tools to go with the lift.

 

[vwishndaetr]

Did a bunch since my last post. Concrete has been curing for 42 days which is more than plenty.

I ended up laying some vapor barrier, and added some rebar to strengthen the concrete adjacent to the pad I was pouring. At least that was the thought process... I ended up pouring one of the pads wider than the other to give me a little more flexibility in future *if* I wanted to bring the lift posts a little closer together.


4000psi w/ fiber mesh.


Fast forward 42 days to today...

I got the holes drilled and the anchors set. All the anchors got to torque at virtually the same depth across the board. All the holes were drilled and prepped with consistency so I think that helped a lot.


Had to get creative with my torque wrench since I didn't have a 15/16" (24mm?) crow's foot to get the nut.

I know how much the internet loves torque wrenches and the right and wrong way to use them, so here's some fuel for everyone.

All in all a pretty vanilla MaxJax install.

 

[vwishndaetr]

Well. That's that. It's operating.

A couple "amendments" to the instruction manual (and maybe this has been rectified on newer models - mine is a M6K that was purchased 3+ years ago).

• The reservoir needs more than 7 quarts of hydraulic fluid to be adequate. Doesn't look like MaxJax accounted for the empty lines in the amount when commissioning the lift. As I was lifting I was inspecting my levels, but it still got away from me. I heard the pump cavitate before reaching max height. Process should be add 7 quarts, run the pump to purge lines of air, and right when the lift starts to move, add the required amount of fluid. Total I probably used closer to 9 quarts.
• The quick connect fittings can't be installed to the cylinder before assembling to the post. I did this a while ago, but I remember there isn't enough clearance when you pre-assemble the quick connect. You have to put the cylinder in first, then attach the quick connect fittings through the cutout in the post. I specifically remember reaching out to MaxJax about this. No biggie... I'm just **** about instruction manuals that have instructions in the wrong order or when they miss something important.

Anyways, can't wait to use this! I have a slew of worked lined up for myself, but with 5 running cars at the house, oil changes and tire rotations alone make it well worth it.

 

[lolaetype]

Nice job and write-up. You'll find having a lift is a life-changing event and wonder how you ever got along without one. I've used my Max-Jax for everything from tire rotations to oil changes to an F-150 clutch job. Like you wrote earlier, I have to line my F-150 up, put it in neutral and push it into position; I can't open the doors far enough to get out with the truck positioned for lifting. A very minor inconvenience.

 

[vwishndaetr]

Nice job and write-up. You'll find having a lift is a life-changing event and wonder how you ever got along without one. I've used my Max-Jax for everything from tire rotations to oil changes to an F-150 clutch job. Like you wrote earlier, I have to line my F-150 up, put it in neutral and push it into position; I can't open the doors far enough to get out with the truck positioned for lifting. A very minor inconvenience.

I agree 100%. If I was working on cars all day every day that would be an issue. But for the occasional weekend warrior, rolling a car forward/backwards beats rolling around on the ground.

 

[kngelv]

I have yet to meet one person who ever regretted getting a lift. Congrats!

James

 

[vwishndaetr]

Curious what other MaxJax folks have experienced...

Before I loaded the lift with the car above, I had all my bolts snug - hand tight. I wasn't wrenching on it to result in me drawing out the anchors, but it was snug enough to warrant being guttentight. I had the car on the lift for 3 days or so and then pulled it off.

For whatever reason, I suspected that after the load was removed, there was a good chance the bolts loosened up a bit form the initially torquing (as a result of the anchors being pulled up ever so slightly under load). A pretty unsettling assumption, but it did make sense. About 3-4 bolts loosened enough for me to need to torque them down again. I was expecting some movement, just not that much.

I plan on raising the car up again, and leaving it for another day or two. I assume that after a second lift, I won't see the anchors pull out anymore. Or so I hope.

Has anyone else come across this? If this becomes a repeat issue on every lift, eventually the anchors will find themselves completely removed from the holes.

 

[Snapped-off]

Well. That's that. It's operating.

A couple "amendments" to the instruction manual (and maybe this has been rectified on newer models - mine is a MK6 that was purchased 3+ years ago).

• The reservoir needs more than 7 quarts of hydraulic fluid to be adequate. Doesn't look like MaxJax accounted for the empty lines in the amount when commissioning the lift. As I was lifting I was inspecting my levels, but it still got away from me. I heard the pump cavitate before reaching max height. Process should be add 7 quarts, run the pump to purge lines of air, and right when the lift starts to move, add the required amount of fluid. Total I probably used closer to 9 quarts.
• The quick connect fittings can't be installed to the cylinder before assembling to the post. I did this a while ago, but I remember there isn't enough clearance when you pre-assemble the quick connect. You have to put the cylinder in first, then attach the quick connect fittings through the cutout in the post. I specifically remember reaching out to MaxJax about this. No biggie... I'm just **** about instruction manuals that have instructions in the wrong order or when they miss something important.

Anyways, can't wait to use this! I have a slew of worked lined up for myself, but with 5 running cars at the house, oil changes and tire rotations alone make it well worth it.

What's your ceiling height?

8' Found it in the OP.

 

[AC-WC]

Curious what other MaxJax folks have experienced...

Before I loaded the lift with the car above, I had all my bolts snug - hand tight. I wasn't wrenching on it to result in me drawing out the anchors, but it was snug enough to warrant being guttentight. I had the car on the lift for 3 days or so and then pulled it off.

For whatever reason, I suspected that after the load was removed, there was a good chance the bolts loosened up a bit form the initially torquing (as a result of the anchors being pulled up ever so slightly under load). A pretty unsettling assumption, but it did make sense. About 3-4 bolts loosened enough for me to need to torque them down again. I was expecting some movement, just not that much.

I plan on raising the car up again, and leaving it for another day or two. I assume that after a second lift, I won't see the anchors pull out anymore. Or so I hope.

Has anyone else come across this? If this becomes a repeat issue on every lift, eventually the anchors will find themselves completely removed from the holes.

While I don't have a MaxJax everything I have read says those bolts should be torqued by hand 90 ft/lbs each (dependent upon the bolt manufacturer). Doesn't the install manual say anything about it? Snug-hand tight is not something I would ever do an a lift bolt. Never use an impact to install/torque.
All mine on the C7000 are 75 ft/lbs and after the 2 or 3 lifts I have never seen them move. I check them after the winter season.

 

[vwishndaetr]

While I don't have a MaxJax everything I have read says those bolts should be torqued by hand 90 ft/lbs each (dependent upon the bolt manufacturer). Doesn't the install manual say anything about it? Snug-hand tight is not something I would ever do an a lift bolt. Never use an impact to install/torque.
All mine on the C7000 are 75 ft/lbs and after the 2 or 3 lifts I have never seen them move. I check them after the winter season.

Instruction manual says 90-ft lbs to set the anchors, and then "tight" for the bolts when lift post is in place.

 

[vwishndaetr]

Well. I put the old pig up on the lift again last night.

Here is my thought process:
If the bolts remain snug after my lift, then the initial movement is gone and I am good to go.

If the bolts loosen a bit (as a result of the anchors being ever so slightly pulled out of the holes), then I will repeat the test, but without snugging them down again. What I think might also be happening is that as a result of the baseplate being slightly out of flat + the concrete not being perfect (ie. no such thing as ideal conditions), it's possible one or two bolts get the brunt of the load during the initial lift and oull out slightly. Once they pull out slightly, the load distributes more evenly distributes across all the hardware. If I then lift the car for the third, fourth, fifth time and don't see further pull-out/loosening of the hardware, I can only assume my theory is right and everything is good to go from there on.

If all of the above results in anchors still creeping out of the hole, I have an issue and will call MaxJax to try and get some feedback on this. I have pretty high confidence it won't come to that though. I think after the next few lifts everything will be A1.

 

[vwishndaetr]

To circle around and close this up.

On subsequent lifts the bolts loosened up every so slightly (and only one or two). Not like they did for the initial lift. So either a) the anchors are well seated now and they don't move any more or b) whatever flex/movement in the lift (post/base plate) has "stabilized" to where nothing deflects anymore.

Either way, I've been using the **** out of it. I live in a rural county so closest dealers are 30 min one way. I managed to do two tire rotations and one set of rear brakes in about 1.5hrs. That includes driving them into the garage, lifting them, taking them down, etc. Since I can only drive one car for a service at a time: 30 min out, 45 min for service, 30 min back, 10 min for paying/talking to reps blah blah, the time I am saving is priceless. Not to mention the $ saved from paying for the actual service.

Between all the workhorses, dailys, icecream getters, and turds in the driveway, my ROI should be pretty quick to say the least.

Happy wrenching.

 

[AC-WC]

My lift paid for itself in 1 1/2 yrs just in labor. I'm halfway for all the building improvements to install the lift. Like you said travel time is such a killer.
I should have bought one years ago.

 

[Dig Doug]

Looks Great !
Love your Write up
@vwishndaetr



What are you using to get around undear the car?

some kind of cart chair roller

I bought my max jax used last year from a friend and waiting on a few things before I do the install

 

[vwishndaetr]

Looks Great !
Love your Write up
@vwishndaetr



What are you using to get around undear the car?

some kind of cart chair roller

I bought my max jax used last year from a friend and waiting on a few things before I do the install

Thanks!

Haven't purchased anything yet, but am in need for sure. Even though the car is well lifted, it's too high to lay on the ground and too low to kneel/stand under it. An inclined creeper would be ideal so that you have leverage when lifting/loosening/tightening things.

MaxJax sells one, but for $300+. Maybe $350? Lol, no thanks.

I haven't needed to do anything underneath yet, but having the engine bay/suspension/wheels at chest height is a godsend.

 

[MileHighRover]

I had one of those expensive creepers and never used it. Ended up selling basically a new creeper for a pretty good loss. Was a bit of a hassle getting into and out of it. I'm short and have found this to be the ticket. I put rollerblade style wheels on it - it rolls buttery smooth. If you're tall those inclined creepers may be the only option.

Rolling Stool

 

[vwishndaetr]

I might be a little too tall for that. I don't want to make another project for myself but I might end up making one. I want it to have wheels, but would like it be "lockable" so it doesn't roll when I am giving things the ugga ugga.

If it had a mechanism similar to the movable staircases you see in retail store that'd be great. Something like this so wheels can be lifted when you're in place:

I'm asking for a lot here lol... But it seems super practical to me.

 

[MileHighRover]

From my experience, I would recommend you do something as cheaply as possible, find out what you like and don't like based on your use case, then get what you need based on those findings.

I've done a ton of work on many vehicles and have never needed a locking creeper. It sounds good in principle but I do believe once you start working under cars you'll know pretty quickly what will work for you and what won't. That's my best recommendations.

 

[AC-WC]

I'm on the short side 5'6" and I often use a 5 gal bucket.

 

[vwishndaetr]

From my experience, I would recommend you do something as cheaply as possible, find out what you like and don't like based on your use case, then get what you need based on those findings.

I've done a ton of work on many vehicles and have never needed a locking creeper. It sounds good in principle but I do believe once you start working under cars you'll know pretty quickly what will work for you and what won't. That's my best recommendations.

Very reasonable approach. I'll probably try our reclining lawn chair tbh.

 

[Richard D]

I suggest a pair of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/317146849418

I was going to make some but I couldn't buy the material for that price. They are very heavy duty.