Another natural gas thread

[Challey]

Hi all.

OK, I'm new to this site but even I can see that NG pipe question threads are like the oil threads on auto and M/C web sites (or like chum to sharks for those with a nautical bent). So with that in mind, here goes.

I need to make a short run (maybe 20') for a NG line from my house to where the end of my (as yet unbuilt) patio will be for my NG barbeque. While I'm inclined to do the work myself, I understand that many on this board do not believe this is a DIY project. I know however that I'm a reasonably competent amateur and frankly, my work is often better than some of the pros I've hired, so I'd ask that we set that question aside for now.

With respect to materials, plastic (PE) buried a minimum of 20" with annodeless risers and a tracer wire seem to be the recommendation. Is that the consensus here? If so, I'd like to ask how the risers are connected to the PE - the photos I've seen seem to indicate that they need to be fused, which would rule out me doing the work. What about the tracer wire? I understand that is just single strand Cu wire that does not need to be energized and is simply buried alongside the plastic pipe. Is this the case? Does the size matter? Coated, bare or underground rated? Can I simply use some of the 12 or 14 ga romex I have leftover from other projects?

If it turns out that this truly something beyond my capability, can I do simply bury some 1" PVC and then have a plumber come out and run some PE through it? The reason that this may be important is that I'm excavating for the patio this weekend (actually, the contractor who is demolishing my 60 year old in-ground pool - a project that is definitely beyond my capabilities - is doing the excavation for the patio, so it's a simple matter to get his crew to dig the trench).

Thanks in advance for your answers and your patience.

 

[koditten]

I can't believe no one responded.

Anyways, I have no issue with calling this job a DIY task. If you can make water proof joints, you make gas proof joints. Just use common sense.

20 feet, you say. I would just use black iron pipe. put it in the ground 18" and all is good. Just make sure you put in a gas shut off valve were it ties into the house.

You a can use plastic gas pipe, but the fittings that convert it to NPT are stupid expensive. You would need 2. This is why I would lean towards black iron. You would have 20 bucks in plastic gas line and 150 bucks into the sharkbite fittings.

I'm sure others will chime in.

KO

 

[truckman5000]

Make your measurements. i.e, lengths of black pipe needed.

Home depot will cut and thread the pieces.

You need to go to a plumbers supply place and buy special tape. So you can wrap the pipe, so it wont rust.

You should psi. test the whole system before turning the gas on. No more than 5 psi. If you test more, and dont have a shutoff off to a appliance. You will damage the gas valve.

 

[Mr onetwo]

You guys are crazy! You never,ever direct bury black iron pipe!Just run yourself a sleeve of 1 1/4" PVC electrical conduit with long sweeps on each end.Your burial depth is fine.Then drag a piece of stainless steel such as "Wardflex" or "TracPipe" thru it and seal the ends of the conduit with silicone. Here is a link to Ward with all the info you need.http://www.wardflex.com/:beer:

 

[koditten]

Sorry, not convinced. The black iron will outlast your lifetime. This for outside application of a gas grill and black iron has proved to be effective. No special skills needed and no special fittings needed.

If you want some insurance, tar and wrap with plastic, but I see no advantage to using the corrigated stainless steel. Unless codes in your are spec it to be used.

Cheap and safe. Can't really ask for more.

KO

 

[brewchief]

Sorry, not convinced. The black iron will outlast your lifetime. This for outside application of a gas grill and black iron has proved to be effective. No special skills needed and no special fittings needed.

If you want some insurance, tar and wrap with plastic, but I see no advantage to using the corrigated stainless steel. Unless codes in your are spec it to be used.

Cheap and safe. Can't really ask for more.

KO

I've seen black pipe rusted though and leaking that was buried only a few inches below grade that was less then ten years old. IIRC in my area it is no longer allowed by code even if wrapped. My code book is on the dash of my work van or I'd check right now.

The gas utility in my area will make up PE pipe with risers and supply the tracer wire on a per foot charge, this may be an option.

Conduit with CSST pulled though it is a good option and may be more cost effective then the PE pipe for such a short run.

Soft copper may be an option as well if the gas supplier approves it.

 

[koditten]

Yes, I agree, the pipe could rust out in a few short years. A lot depends on the soil composition.

I did state that you need to check your codes in your area. I honestly do not know if the code is national or not. So do your research. In my area there is not much issue with putting black iron pipe in the ground.

I have to do this soon for my grill. As soon as the propane grill dies, I'm putting in a NG supplied grill. It will be Black Iron pipe in the ground.

KO

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Use the poly gas tubing per your original information, use the adaptors to make the risers as the tubing itself is photo reactive and the sun breaks it down.

I would not bury the iron pipe in the ground either. I've seen guys run a link in copper for a gas grill but not since the poly tube has become available.

You could run the burial line, poke it out of the ground properly, put it into the home or pop it out of the ground properly next to the home and do a thorough pressure test on it. If you use the right materials and pressure test it I don't see why a plumber would not hook in the house piping to it.

I would. I may retest it for safety but I would connect it if it were correct..

 

[Steevo]

A lot of areas have updated codes to disallow the use of black pipe, even epoxy-coated and wrapped joints.
I had to use the PE with fused risers to run gas to my shop, to be code compliant.
Unfortunately, that meant paying a hack of a plumber who happened to have the right equipment to do it.

 

[Scott65]

Check your local codes. I used black pipe for my garage heater as a DIY project. Took my time and it came out fine. I spent more time dreading doing it than it actually took! Flexible pipe is costlier but faster-I have more time than money.

 

[truckman5000]

here in Ma. it is fine to bury a steel gas line 12" below grade. If it is raped in a protective tape. Like i mentioned above.

 

[Socophreak]

I would be afraid to use black pipe underground. PE would probably be your best bet. You will have to check what's code in your area though.

 

[Mr onetwo]

here in Ma. it is fine to bury a steel gas line 12" below grade. If it is raped in a protective tape. Like i mentioned above.

These codes are based on the NFPA and local preference. While it is acceptable to bury wrapped black iron, if you have ever done it, you will quickly realize why no one does it any more!PE works great, but the DIY'er can't do it.That is why I suggested CSST in pvc.He can do the sleeve and burial himself, saving time and money.It would take the gas co. 1/2 hour to complete the job.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

You guys scare me...and that ain't easy.

The code will be your best guide as it is specific to your area.

Mr. onetwo has it right, though CSST is not approved underground and you need tools and training to use it and PE is of course the same. Black iron pipe is not approved for good reasons mostly mentioned here.

To sleeve an unapproved pipe is even more demanding (of knowledge) than to wrap. Copper pipe is approved for underground gas nearly everywhere (given the correct wall thickness is used - again, check the local code).

If you are in a hurry, leave a trench open.

You might even ask a local professional or code official, this is not the place.

 

[koditten]

I understand where you are coming from. I agree, plastic gas line is the best and most permanant methode for gas supply.

Around here, gas grills on the patio are considered temporary. Every 15 years a new deck goes in and the new grill goes somewher else.

I never, for once considered the black iron in the ground the perminant installation.

Buried black iron, is still the most cost efficient and safe methode for a skilled DIY'er methode for running a line to the grill.

I have no issue agreeing that plastic is the best way to go,it just is not the most user friendly.

 

[Mr onetwo]

You guys scare me...and that ain't easy.



Mr. onetwo has it right, though CSST is not approved underground and you need tools and training to use it and PE is of course the same.

CSST is not approved for direct burial...it is absolutly approved in a water tight sleeve. Download this pdf guide http://www.wardflex.com/images/WARDFLEX_D&I_GUIDE_Eng.pdf and go to pg 55-57 and get educated.Very common application.

 

[BD1]

Where you located ? If code allows black pipe, do it yourself. Get some 3''
PVC pipe and a couple of ells and couplings. Make up the black pipe with ells on ends looking up and plug one and use the other for testing. Once tested,
put the pvc over the pipe and cut to size so the black pipe elbow is set so
the black pipe riser can be screwed in. if you want to be fancy, drill a hole in 3" pvc cap for riser to go through. Screw in risers, test last two joints, glue
pvc caps. We have done this for swimming pool heaters.