Another One Gone - Wal Mart and Hart Split the Sheets

[liliysdad]

Hart Leaving WalMart

In a vein similar to that of the ongoing FLEX debacle, I thought this news interesting. The HART line seems to be a just a little nicer than the traditional Skil/Black and Decker homeowner stuff that Wal Mart has traditionally carried

I’ll not say I’m a HART groupie, but Ive found them useful for certain things. I do have one of their 60v mowers and it’s a pretty nice machine. I picked up a matching 60v leafblower at the Pawn Shop and it’s been perfect for my needs. We have a 20v vacuum in the house for miscellaneous duties, can’t find any fault in it.

Walmart is the only “box store” we have within 40 miles. Everything else I own is yellow, but it’s been nice keeping the “yard” tools separate from the others. Luckily I’ve got a handful of batteries. Once those start fading, I’m sure the tools will get replaced with yellow.

Just another lesson in being careful when you decide to adopt a new battery ecosystem

 

[seber]

We have a super Walmart locally but it has never carried the Hart brand. So I guess it won't be missed here.

 

[rust in the eye]

All I ever knew of the brand before their appearance at WalMart was for nice framing hammers. Never knew they had a larger line.
Looks like getting in bed with WalMart did them in. I've heard WM is brutal on their vendors.
Curious to see the next vendor lining up for a spanking.

 

[Citation]

As far as I can tell Hart is like Ryobi in white. It's actually quite good for home/part time users but I don't see people using it for day in day out work. Well that and you have to avoid some of the bottom of the line tools. For example I'm opposed to cordless drills with only a single speed gearbox. I think Hart sells one. At the same time the Hart screwdrivers I have are decent enough. The 1/4 drive ratchet set I picked up in a bind is about the same as many of the competent, big box stuff.

 

[Rinspeed]

I guess that's a good reason to stay away from cheap tools.

 

[Steve_P]

As the 800 lb retail gorilla, Walmart is well known for saying no to price increases, and certainly rebidding soon to be expiring contacts, and the Hart contract is probably now expiring. I'm sure Hart is a rounding error for TTI's sales, so they will move on, and the people with Hart tools will switch to Ryobi, HF, Skil, Craftsman.... when their batteries die off in a few years. So, probably no loss for TTI as they will just pick up much of that previous business.

There was a well-publicized story decades ago where Rubbermaid had supplied WM a line of plastic storage products for several years on a contract; when it was time for a new contract they went to WM and said that they needed to increase prices by 2-3% because the increase in cost of raw materials and showed them the new material quotations. WM said no, Rubbermaid said fine, and RM lost that contract. I assume this is similar.

 

[Steve_P]

I guess that's a good reason to stay away from cheap tools.

not cheap tools- but be careful with battery systems as the OP said. Ryobi cordless tools are "cheap", but Ryobi has used the same interchangeable battery style for 10+ years and probably sells 100X more than Hart, and more than anyone in the US, as far as pieces sold, other than DeWalt and Milwaukee. Sure, this can't be proven, but does anyone here seriously think that Makita, Bosch, Flex.... sells more cordless tool items, by pieces sold, in the US than Ryobi?

Flex was a premium priced brand and appears to be going away from B&M retail sales in the US; those Flex people are most likely soon to be screwed, and they didn't buy disposable bargain tools like Hart.

 

[gleman]

As the 800 lb retail gorilla, Walmart is well known for saying no to price increases, and certainly rebidding soon to be expiring contacts, and the Hart contract is probably now expiring. I'm sure Hart is a rounding error for TTI's sales, so they will move on, and the people with Hart tools will switch to Ryobi, HF, Skil, Craftsman.... when their batteries die off in a few years. So, probably no loss for TTI as they will just pick up much of that previous business.

There was a well-publicized story decades ago where Rubbermaid had supplied WM a line of plastic storage products for several years on a contract; when it was time for a new contract they went to WM and said that they needed to increase prices by 2-3% because the increase in cost of raw materials and showed them the new material quotations. WM said no, Rubbermaid said fine, and RM lost that contract. I assume this is similar.

Snapper too!

 

[Kurt4440]

I guess that's a good reason to stay away from cheap tools.

Life is too short to buy cheap tools. I only buy commercial grade lawn equipment, so that my neighbors know that I am doing a professional job.

Actually, I have been impressed with some of the battery powered lawn equipment. I purchased both Makita and Ryobi; hedge trimmers, string trimmers, blowers, and chainsaws. Compared to my commercial equipment, they don't stack up, but for work around the house they get the lighter jobs done. The surprise of the group are the Ryobi hedge trimmer and string trimmer.

My commercial equipment is comparable to buying Snap-on tools, the Ryobi equipment is comparable to Harbor Freight tools. Please feel free to discuss.

 

[PCustoms]

My commercial equipment is comparable to buying Snap-on tools, the Ryobi equipment is comparable to Harbor Freight tools. Please feel free to discuss.

 

[mngundog]

Hart Leaving WalMart
.....

Just another lesson in being careful when you decide to adopt a new battery ecosystem

Just like B/D and Dewalt, I would imagine that they share their battery system with a major brand, and 20 seconds with a utility knife or dremel will make the batteries compatible.

 

[M635_Guy]

Just like B/D and Dewalt, I would imagine that they share their battery system with a major brand, and 20 seconds with a utility knife or dremel will make the batteries compatible.

About the last thing folks should be doing is screwing around with batteries they don't understand...

It's what I expected from WalMart honestly. It's not a core business for them, so anything is transactional/temporary (as opposed to HF, where the Baur/Hercules lines are part of their core business).

 

[Kurt4440]

I was laughing when I wrote that comparison.
The "my tool brand is better than yours" threads are humorous.

 

[darkzero]

I said this elsewhere but IMO they did it to themselves, both of them. Not the same as the Flex situation. TTI is discontinuing the manufacturing of Hart power tools. Chervon didn't discontinue Flex, it's just Lowes dropping their sales. They will still be available online just like Skil but who knows how long that will last.

Walmart had their own two brands competing against each other in the same store. Hypertough made by Chervon & Hart made by a competitor manufacturer. I suppose they intended Hart to be the more premium brand but Hypertough ended up being pretty decent at a much lower price point.

Lowes had two different brands marketing the 24V advantage or however one might view it. Flex was just too expensive IMO with not much deals to attract buyers in a saturated market.

 

[liliysdad]

Not the same as the Flex situation. TTI is discontinuing the manufacturing of Hart power tools. Chervon didn't discontinue Flex, it's just Lowes dropping their sales. They will still be available online just like Skil but who knows how long that will last.

Dead is dead, manner of death doesn’t matter in the end.

 

[PCustoms]

 

[Bubba Fett]

Hart had a few gems in their hand tool lineup, but I saw no reason to get into their power tool ecosystem, because I was afraid that this would happen. I did like their storage containers, which look to me like they are mostly made by Keter. I guess I'll keep an eye out for clearance deals.

Anyway, Wally-world is apparently carrying Skil products now.

 

[darkzero]

Dead is dead, manner of death doesn’t matter in the end.

Lowes previously dropped Skil also, they're not dead. Flex is not techincally dead yet. Same with Ego, HD dropped them. Funny how they are all Chervon brands. But Lowes picked up Ego & the same could happen with Flex. But whatever, I don't really care what happens to any of those brands. Skil is just name just like Craftsman now, they mean nothing to me.

 

[Farmall450]

I'm not really surprised by this, but I feel for the guys who invested in it.

On the plus side, the batteries will probably last 10+ years, plenty of time to slowly buy up DeWalt/Milwaukee.

 

[liliysdad]

I bought what little HART I did with the complete expectation of this eventual outcome.

The mower is cool, but cheap as hell. Works great for what it is. The blower is amazing…for the $35 I paid the pawn shop for it with two 60v batteries.

The vacuum…is a vacuum. It *****. For better or for worse.

 

[bigfunwmu]

I never looked much at the HART stuff because it was at Walmart. Every thing I get from that place is bought with the understanding it's disposable and borderline trash when it's new, which is not what I am looking for in durable goods like tools.

If it would have been available at other stores then it might have been different.

 

[Steel_Rain]

They will still be available online just like Skil but who knows how long that will last.

Search Lowes.com for anything FLEX, the only thing you can actually buy online for store pick up are the storage items (Stack Pack and accessories), everything else says “Store Only”.

Here is my local Lowe’s selection of FLEX tools currently:



Yea, gone.

Amazon, Ohio Power Tool and Acme still have FLEX, but I doubt it will continue much longer. How many power tool brands can really stay alive being “online only”?

 

[darkzero]

Search Lowes.com for anything FLEX

When I said Flex will still be available online, I didn't mean from Lowes. Lowes dropped Flex completely. Chervon didn't discontinue Flex like TTI did with Hart (the power tools).

 

[WildBill]

The big Hart socket set is pretty decent, I bought a bunch of the nicer previous version 215 piece sets on clearance for around $25, definitely worth it. Also their large rolling tool boxes with the wooden top are pretty nice, bought four of those for $99 on clearance a couple years ago. They have held up fine, drawers feel nice and have a smooth soft close feature, even when very overloaded. The Hart stickers came right off, so I can leave my shop door open without people pointing and laughing. At least not at the tool boxes.

Probably grab some more big socket sets and toolboxes if they go on clearance again.

I bought a bunch of their cordless tools that went on clearance at the same time and made 3-4 times what I paid for them selling them on facebutt marketplace. My cost was around $10 a tool average, with lots of free batteries and chargers. Plus at one point I got a $50 rebate on tools I paid $30 for.

 

[Steel_Rain]

Chervon didn't discontinue Flex

Yup, I get it. We will see what happens with the brand. They lost their way and seem be focusing other more specific/specialized trades instead of directly with the big established brands. I can’t see them lastly long without a major bricks&mortor location.

 

[liliysdad]

Yup, I get it. We will see what happens with the brand. They lost their way and seem be focusing other more specific/specialized trades instead of directly with the big established brands. I can’t see them lastly long without a major bricks&mortor location.

FLEX is dead…they just have a better hospice provider than HART.

 

[L.Cheapo]

I've heard WM is brutal on their vendors.

You heard right.

I used to work for a guy. Very wealthy, very successful. Self made. Owned a multinational manufacturing company. Incredibly tough negotiator. The man would try to negotiate at Panera about the price of lunch. It wasn't the money; it was the feeling like he won that drove him.

Anyway, when he'd make his semi-annual pilgrimage to WM HQ for contract negotiations, he'd come out of there looking like he went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson. He may have been a world class negotiator, but WM was on another level.

English was not his first language, and some of the things he'd say when he left those meetings were utterly hilarious, and too impolite for a website like this. Suffice it to say, he had met his match with WM. Defeated. Every time.

 

[Steve_P]

Lowes previously dropped Skil also, they're not dead. Flex is not techincally dead yet. Same with Ego, HD dropped them. Funny how they are all Chervon brands. But Lowes picked up Ego & the same could happen with Flex. But whatever, I don't really care what happens to any of those brands. Skil is just name just like Craftsman now, they mean nothing to me.

Ok, but it's a bit of apples and oranges...

Ego is sold on Amazon, at Ace, and at Lowes. Ryobi is essentially a Home Depot brand and has been for a long time; I don't see HD dropping Ryobi because it's a huge seller for them to the typical residential user- half of my neighbors with battery OPE use Ryobi, the others DeWalt, and two have Ego blowers (including me).

Ego and Ryobi are the leaders in the battery OPE field in the US. Along with OPE, Ryobi is a leader, if not the leader, in homeowner grade battery power tools as far as sales volume.

Flex was trying to enter a premium priced and saturated US market to compete with DeWalt and Milwaukee; Flex was doomed from the start. There's no comparison between Flex and Ego other than quality of the tool; Ego is a leader in their field (ha), Flex was following red and yellow that had decades of market dominance.

And yes, I have Ego OPE, but I chose it over DeWalt, which is my primary battery brand, and I have probably ten DeWalt 20V batteries.

 

[Steve_P]

You heard right.

I used to work for a guy. Very wealthy, very successful. Self made. Owned a multinational manufacturing company. Incredibly tough negotiator. The man would try to negotiate at Panera about the price of lunch. It wasn't the money; it was the feeling like he won that drove him.

Anyway, when he'd make his semi-annual pilgrimage to WM HQ for contract negotiations, he'd come out of there looking like he went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson. He may have been a world class negotiator, but WM was on another level.

English was not his first language, and some of the things he'd say when he left those meetings were utterly hilarious, and too impolite for a website like this. Suffice it to say, he had met his match with WM. Defeated. Every time.

This is well documented re Walmart and contract negotiation. When WM wants to negotiate the next widget contract, they bring in all the widget salesmen on the same day, or over a few days, to their HQ in Arkansas. The widget salesmen all know each other. They all sit in the same waiting room for their time. They all know they're competing for the widget contract for the next 3? years. WM mgt brings them back to the office one at a time and squeezes them for a break-even price for just the privilege to get on the WM shelf.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Nothing lost with FLEX. I remember a few years back someone on here showing off his new FLEX tool and it was exactly the same as my cheap Mastercraft (Canadian Tire) tool built by Durofix/AC Delco.

 

[rust in the eye]

I never looked much at the HART stuff because it was at Walmart. Every thing I get from that place is bought with the understanding it's disposable and borderline trash when it's new, which is not what I am looking for in durable goods like tools.

If it would have been available at other stores then it might have been different.

As I said in an earlier post I was completely unaware of Hart tools aside for a hammer bought years before their stuff appeared at WM. I am quite happy with my Hart framing hammer(two blows to drive a 16p) and consider it a good quality tool. Seeing the brand pop up at WM years later as a power tool line was a surprise. Never did see the hammers at WM and, to your point, wouldn't have bought mine had I seen it there first.
I figured Hart was perhaps another well regarded brand name WM wished to exploit and the power tool line to be a contrivance between these two.
Did any of these power tools exist before WM ?

 

[zendriver]

I checked out that hart cordless tool selection while waiting for a tire repair

The stuff seemed all right, but price wise they weren’t exactly giving it away. Probably just like the flex products. It’s pretty much “why even bother ?” especially since at my Walmart, there is a harbor freight store about 300 yards away. The prices were similar the selection better with a better chance longevity. Hart stuff seemed like it was priced up there almost with Milwaukee on sale.

It never really made sense to have them in Walmart anyway IMO

The stuff was locked down pretty tight so if they weren’t interested in buying it, they may have been at least interested in stealing it

 

[Citation]

I agree that the Hart battery tool prices are nothing special unless you get them on sale. That is why I have them at all. A few deep sales and I figured they were worth it if they just lasted as long as the original batteries. If Walmart discounts the prices it would be will worth looking for a set of backup/cheap usable tools.

 

[Debcrow]

It's a HART ache, nothing but a Hartache...

 

[dante2]

Not going to miss them. The screwdrivers aren't too bad and I recently got some Hart chisels but have yet to use them. I do like the 25' tape with the magnetic end but the play on the hook is obscene. When the 3 tapes I have wear out I'll find something better.

 

[Steel_Rain]

Nothing lost with FLEX. I remember a few years back someone on here showing off his new FLEX tool and it was exactly the same as my cheap Mastercraft (Canadian Tire) tool built by Durofix/AC Delco.

Flex is owned by Chervon. Chervon also makes Mastercraft power tools for Canadian Tire from what I can tell.

 

[Steel_Rain]

A buddy of mine said Hart stuff is now found at Ollie's Bargain Outlet:






I don't own any Hart tools and I've never been to Ollie's, but I went today over lunch to confirm and he is right. Hart is owned by TTI, the same people that make Milwaukee and Ryobi.

Most of the stuff is COO China and Vietnam, but I have no thoughts or opinions on quality. Obviously, Hart is going away @ Walmart and this was entry level stuff from what I can tell, but TTI makes good products.

 

[KnurledNut]

A buddy of mine said Hart stuff is now found at Ollie's Bargain Outlet:






I don't own any Hart tools and I've never been to Ollie's, but I went today over lunch to confirm and he is right. Hart is owned by TTI, the same people that make Milwaukee and Ryobi.

Most of the stuff is COO China and Vietnam, but I have no thoughts or opinions on quality. Obviously, Hart is going away @ Walmart and this was entry level stuff from what I can tell, but TTI makes good products.

Yep. It was advertised in the mailer. I’m guessing 75% of the stock the closest store to me got was wiped out in the first couple days. The biggest thing left is the bare tools. They didn’t get any batteries or chargers where I checked.
I was actually gonna post about it here a few days ago, but I didn’t find the discount prices to be that great.

 

[lardy1]

Ollie's here has had Hart cordless tools for awhile now. Pretty small selection but I'm in a very rural area.

 

[zendriver]

They had the name slapped on hundreds of generic Chinese tool products.

It’s not like they had a lot of skin in the game.

Walmart is going to be OK, and whoever bought their Hart products will use them till they **** out and toss them just like everything else and move on with life.