Another pole barn insulation question??

[Rick98Z]

Ok I have been searching and searching but still am coming up with alot of questions on how to properly/cost effectively insulation my metal sided pole barn. The building is a 40'x60'x12' and has 6x6 posts, which then have 2x4 purlins attached on the outsides running horizontally for the metal siding to attached to. I will eventually have heat in the building as well since I plan on having running water in it. It has overhangs with vented soffit all the way around the roof line as well.

My current plans were to frame in stud walls between the posts and use like R-19 rolls for the walls. The interior walls will either be drywall or OSB. Guess my questions are: is that a proper R-value for 6" stud walls, do I need vapor barrier? I know some have mentioned that if the insulation touches the metal siding it can wick up the moisture and overtime deteriorate it. Is the 2x4 purlins on the outside enough to keep the insulation away from the metal?

I'm just in the dark really when it comes to insulation...the ceiling will be insulated as well with probably blown insulation but I am ready to start working on the walls now. Any thoughts to guide me in the right direction.

 

[tdkkart]

My building's construction was much like your's by the sounds of it. rather than "frame up" walls, I simply ran 2x4's horizontally between the posts on 24" centers. Filled teh cavities with 6" R19 batts, and then covered the whole thing with 3/4" pink foam board just for a bit of added insulation and sound deadening. Final step was hanging 6mil plastic vapor barrier over the whole thing and then installed pole building steel on the walls and ceiling.
The ceiling was done the same way, 2x4 purlins between the trusses, 6mil plastic and then the steel ceiling. Ceiling insulation is 18" of blown-in on top.

Vapor barrier always goes on the warm side of any wall, the idea being that the moisture will be on the heated side and the vapor barrier is put in to keep the moisture from contacting the cold outer wall where it will condensate and cause issues.

 

[fflintstone]

I had to do mine on an extreme budget. the lowes by me still has 1" foam board for only $6 a sheet. I am puting two layers of it directly on the horizontal girts than putting OSB over that. Only R-8 but much cheaper than framing and fiberglass.
here it is.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80852

 

[Rick98Z]

I have seen other pole barn companies run horizontal 2 x 6 boards to hold the insulation as well. I just figured running something like standard vertical ones 16" o/c would be easier as far as screwing in wallboard and such...

 

[Red05GT]

We have taken 1 1/2" foam board and installed it between purlins and then covered
it with osb. Not as high an R value but makes an easy job. Could also be done in addition
to the fiberglas. Cost can add up in a hurry so it might not be practical though.

 

[krapie]

I have similar construction, posts on 8' centers, 14' ceiling. This week I am installing 8' wide (100' roll) bats made for this purpose. staple the insulation to the 6x6 posts, add purlins on the inside walls, metal siding for the interior of the building. A lot cheaper, and less gaps than framing out between the posts.

 

[haugy]

Ok I have been searching and searching but still am coming up with alot of questions on how to properly/cost effectively insulation my metal sided pole barn. The building is a 40'x60'x12' and has 6x6 posts, which then have 2x4 purlins attached on the outsides running horizontally for the metal siding to attached to. I will eventually have heat in the building as well since I plan on having running water in it. It has overhangs with vented soffit all the way around the roof line as well.

My current plans were to frame in stud walls between the posts and use like R-19 rolls for the walls. The interior walls will either be drywall or OSB. Guess my questions are: is that a proper R-value for 6" stud walls, do I need vapor barrier? I know some have mentioned that if the insulation touches the metal siding it can wick up the moisture and overtime deteriorate it. Is the 2x4 purlins on the outside enough to keep the insulation away from the metal?

I'm just in the dark really when it comes to insulation...the ceiling will be insulated as well with probably blown insulation but I am ready to start working on the walls now. Any thoughts to guide me in the right direction.

Sounds like you have the right idea. You'll need to put the vapor barrier against the steel (what I was told by my insulation guy). But I went and had 1" of spray foam put on the steel walls. It sealed it up from water and air really well. Then I put R-19 batts on top of that, and then drywall. They drywallers had a salamander heater running for about 10 minutes before they were sweating it out in the shop. It was 20 degrees out, and I haven't even closed up the ceiling yet.

 

[kb2tha]

My posts are built up from 3 - 2 x 6 staggered. Pressure treated where ground contact exists and KD above that. Board and batten siding (1" hemlock). Housewrap as well. Had 3" spray foam open cell installed in the walls. Will frame interior horizontal nailers from left over rough cut hemlock. 1" of r7 rigid insulation board, vapor barrier, then drywall. Ceiling will be FC sheetrock. r49 blown fiberglass. 2" blueboard under slab. Will heat with a 30k Dayton low profile LPG ceiling mount heater. Heated area measures 26 x 28 x 10' high.

Should get a real r19 in the walls and seal all infiltration issues. Make sure to seal your windows, exterior door jambs also. I used the spray foam in a can.
Ken

 

[disasterman]

Why limit yourself to R19. I used commercial metal studs and hat track ceiling to end up with straight walls and ceiling and R30 walls and R42 ceiling. Cool in the summer, warm in the winter.

 

[Old Moparz]

While searching for a way to insulate part of my home, I had sent an email to Dow asking about a specific product I needed. The person there suggested one of their products called THERMAX. It is already fire rated with an aluminum face.

http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/insulation/thermaxsheathing.htm

 

[Rick98Z]

Why limit yourself to R19. I used commercial metal studs and hat track ceiling to end up with straight walls and ceiling and R30 walls and R42 ceiling. Cool in the summer, warm in the winter.

Got any pics? Aren't commercial metal studs a little pricey though??

 

[samert111]

Ok I have been searching and searching but still am coming up with alot of questions on how to properly/cost effectively insulation my metal sided pole barn. The building is a 40'x60'x12' and has 6x6 posts, which then have 2x4 purlins attached on the outsides running horizontally for the metal siding to attached to. I will eventually have heat in the building as well since I plan on having running water in it. It has overhangs with vented soffit all the way around the roof line as well.

My current plans were to frame in stud walls between the posts and use like R-19 rolls for the walls. The interior walls will either be drywall or OSB. Guess my questions are: is that a proper R-value for 6" stud walls, do I need vapor barrier? I know some have mentioned that if the insulation touches the metal siding it can wick up the moisture and overtime deteriorate it. Is the 2x4 purlins on the outside enough to keep the insulation away from the metal?

I'm just in the dark really when it comes to insulation...the ceiling will be insulated as well with probably blown insulation but I am ready to start working on the walls now. Any thoughts to guide me in the right direction.

I'm working on the exact same project and approaching it the same as you for the side walls but I first took a roll of Tyvek house wrap and cut it to fit inside the posts and stapled it to the inside of the horizontal purlins and posts, then framing in studs 24" OC between the posts and will put up Kraft faced R19 insulation between the studs with the Kraft paper to the inside of the building. The Tyvek keeps the fiberglass insulation from touching the ouside metal skin and allow the building to breathe properly. 7/16" OSB will cover the inside walls.

Before the Tyvek, from the inside, I installed the foam closure strips at the inside top and bottom of the metal siding to close up the holes in the ribs of the siding. This really knocked down the air leaks. Also am methodicially finding and sealing up any other leaks I can find, like around the service door trim with the flat foam gasket that is used between a truck topper and the truck box. For the buildings corners where the metal siding meets under the trim pc. but does not make a tight joint, I'm using some 4" wide metal flashing tape from Lowes to seal up the joint then putting the trim pc back on to cover it up. At the top and bottom of these corners the flat truck topper gasket should work good also or I will fit in a pc of the closure strips from the outside before I put the trim pc back on.

The ceiling has R30 Kraft faced bats in between the trusses 24" OC and I will use the lighter gauge metal siding just like the outside walls for a ceiling.

Also added a couple ceiling fan electricial boxes for fans to keep the warm air circulating and just picked up a Reznor XL 125 hanging furnace off CL for $115. Next spring will have the NG gas line run from the house meter over to the building and that should wrap up this project.

 

[Rixter58]

Just finishing the very project you speak of. Struggled just like you are to decide what to do....but thats just part of my nature. 33' x 48' x16' sidewalls heated with 40' radiant tube. Ended up using 1.5" pink foam between the girts and pushed behind the posts. Then used R19 faced running vertically between the posts. Could get a pic or 2 of the "in progress" if you like. Gives me approx R26.5? R45 blown in the ceiling. Have no idea if what I did was right or overkill, but I'm happy with the results at this point. Seems the more I asked people, the more confused I got. Good luck.

 

[Rick98Z]

Rixter I follow what your saying, but pics would be great if you have time.

Is there really any benefit to studding out my wall with 2x4 vs. 2x6s? As stated in the first post, the posts are 6x6. I was planning on using Tyvek stapled to the post and outside purlins to make sure the insulation doesn't touch the metal siding. Do I really need 2x6 walls though? Using 2x4's that run with the interior edge of the post would create straight walls and I still would have the distance to the purlins to use the 6" thick insulation attached to the 2x4 stud wall right? I know it would be a cost savings using 2x4's instead of 2x6. I am just trying to be tight with the budget right now. Spray insulation is def not in my budget either...this economy blows!!!

 

[samert111]

Rixter I follow what your saying, but pics would be great if you have time.

Is there really any benefit to studding out my wall with 2x4 vs. 2x6s? As stated in the first post, the posts are 6x6. I was planning on using Tyvek stapled to the post and outside purlins to make sure the insulation doesn't touch the metal siding. Do I really need 2x6 walls though? Using 2x4's that run with the interior edge of the post would create straight walls and I still would have the distance to the purlins to use the 6" thick insulation attached to the 2x4 stud wall right? I know it would be a cost savings using 2x4's instead of 2x6. I am just trying to be tight with the budget right now. Spray insulation is def not in my budget either...this economy blows!!!

Rick98Z,
I used the Tyvek between the posts also and 2x4 studs flush with the posts on the first 2 walls. Like you said it still gives you enough room for R19 but after reading another post on using 2 x 6 studs instead, which allow you to then tie the studs to the purlins with drywall screws. This really firmed up the side walls between the post so I decided to use 2 x 6's on the other 2 walls and started framing it in today and like they said it really makes difference. It's a little more expensive but worth it I think.

 

[LennyTheLizard]

I'm just getting ready to build a 40x60x12, so I'm interested in the very topic you started. I plan to build my "Panel Style", where the posts are put 8' apart. Basically a 8' wide wall is built out of 2x6's only the studs run horizontal instead of vertical (as in stick built). with the 2x6's on 2' centers you're allready set up for 6" batt insulation and no extra studs are needed on the inside either. I plan to put metal siding on the inside as well (when money allows).

 

[yetisas]

hey all
moved my question

 

[G-force]

Chose you insulation wisely. I just got finished removing the insulation the PO had installed between outer metal and inner OSB. I wish I had taken some pictures for you folks. It had been completely infested with critters and from about 36" down had no more insulation from the critters. It also harbored alot of moisture and mold. This barn was put up about 20 years ago. If I ever insulate it again it will only be with rigid foam, or stick frame the walls and seal it up the conventional way. I don't know what the PO was thinking installing insulation and leaving the base and top open to critters via the corrugated metal panels. Never Again!

 

[roofster]

See http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=779866#post779866

Describes insulating my the 32x32x9 main room of my pole barn. Used 2x6's vertical and R19. Finished for the most part last winter, was much cooler in there last summer. I don't think I've seen it below freezing in there yet this year and it heats up nice. Still
have a 2.5'x6' section to finish and there are leaks around the garage doors, but I can get it to 60 easy and 70 when I want. 2 ceiling fans to move air around also.

 

[mad57]

I ran 2x4 horiz inside and just used non crafted insulation(no paper) and ran it from top to bottom and to hold it up i had a roll or wire and cut the wire and wrapped it around the insulation and nailed it worked great than i put the vapor barrier, than sheet rock..5/8. this pics shows a spot where i used clear plastic to give you and idea how i did it. also my dad put boric soap powder in his walls critters hate that stuff.

 

[mad57]

heres another pic the black spray paint is to remind you were your outlets /switchs are ect...youll be suprised how quick you forget where stuff is after the plastic goes up, plastic is over lapped and seams taped.

 

[mad57]

Sounds like you have the right idea. You'll need to put the vapor barrier against the steel (what I was told by my insulation guy). .

Against the steel??on the outer wall?