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Another reason not to buy chineese stuff

benjamming

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Alabama
diogenes,

I believe we are saying the same thing. All corporations in China are subject to state ownership. Therefore, you can't sue a company there to make them clean up their act.
 
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xroad

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Mar 4, 2008
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584
Here is my slanted view on the situation. Some agree. Most disagree for whatever reason.....

The solution is import taxes.

Heavily tax imports to the point where we can compete price-wise with the Made in China items.

Something HAS to level the playing field or we will all end up flipping burgers.

We also need to stop subsidizing private business that continues to move American jobs away from our country. Yank their subsidies and start taxing the imports and you will start to see a resurgence of American manufacturing.


If you want to show pictures of pollution, one needs not look any further than our own back yard.

We have enough problems of our own that we need to clean up instead of bashing China for their horrible problems.

If our government was really on our side they could increase the import taxes (which could reduce taxes that corporate America would end up paying).

Yes, this would mean that consumers would end up paying more taxes, but it would open their eyes and could potentially force them to look for domestic alternatives.

The masses will never go for such a plan as it would cost them more money (but they would be able to get a job).

I really don't blame China. I blame our lawmakers that allow the horrible imbalance of trade.

Have you ever considered the taxes or import duties required to bring foreign equipment into many foreign countries? Some places it's over 50%. Other places its closer to 100%. I think we as a country need to look at that pretty closely.



Off my soapbox.

Recently US increased tariff on some Chinese tire and steel product. China reciprocated with increased tariff on US chicken. Another example of protectionism never work. It damages both sides. It has been tried countless times throughout the history of the US. Yet, the people in charge never learn. I think it is use as a political tool. It is a feel good policy to pacified the constituents. Perhaps the politicians DO know it won't work. It serve to show that they are doing "something". Often, that is enough to make the stupid voter/supporter convinced. The solution lies somewhere else. There were tons of headline talks a couple of weeks ago. Here is one article I found amongst hundreds of hits on Google.

Sunday, February 07, 2010

China Announces 105% Tariffs on Chickens in Retaliation for US Steel and Tire Tariffs


In Steel Tariffs Show Protectionism On The Rise, I noted that 145% steel pipe and steel grating tariffs would bring a reaction from China.

Who Benefits From This?

Essentially no one. Potentially a few hundred steel workers get jobs back, but everyone using those products has to pay more. Demand will slow and price pressures will increase on everyone using those products. In aggregate, more jobs will be lost as a result of these tariffs than gained.

And that is just on the surface. Think China will not react? A nice clear message would be for China to cancel plane orders from Boeing or industrial goods from GE. Even if China is not so overt in its message, it is foolish to think there will be no repercussions over this.

The rising tide of protectionism is not a good thing. It never is.
105% Tariffs On US Chickens

Retaliation for 145% steel tariffs (on top of huge tire tariffs) has arrived: China announces anti-dumping steps on US chicken.
China announced anti-dumping duties of up to 105.4 percent Friday on imports of U.S. chicken products, adding to trade strains with Washington.

The case comes amid mutual accusations of protectionism by Beijing and Washington which both say will hurt efforts to end the global economic downturn.

A preliminary investigation concluded U.S. exports were being sold at improperly low prices that harmed Chinese competitors, the Commerce Ministry said. It said importers must post a bond until a final decision is reached.

Beijing launched the investigation in September after Washington raised duties on imports of Chinese-made tires despite vigorous opposition from China.

The two governments also are embroiled in disputes over access to each other's markets for steel pipes, movies and books and other goods.

The chicken duties take effect Feb. 13 and apply to whole birds, chicken sausage and other products, the Commerce Ministry said. Included are chicken feet, which most Americans throw away but which are a delicacy in southern China.

Companies that appealed the ruling will pay lower duties of 43.1 percent to 80.5 percent, the ministry said. Tyson Foods Inc. will be charged the lowest rate, while Pilgrim's Pride Corp. is at the top end of that range.

Importers that did not appeal will be charged 105.4 percent, the ministry said.
 
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Abbott

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Apr 29, 2009
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U.S.A.
Carbon credits for sale. Lost job, must sell. Save me, save the Earth.

Great sig line Benjamming!

Edit to add: Sorry 'bout that guys, it must be the fumes in the paint booth ;)
 
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blklegend

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Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
107
I've been a member on here for a little while and have been following this thread for awhile. While many say buy American only and not Chinese, in reality that is hard to do. Increase the import tariffs on chinese goods, that doesn't work either.

I think a possible viable solution is americans need to start accepting lower wages. The "economy" is global these days, if we can't compete with lower labor costs overseas the manufacturing industry and many other industries will eventually die out.

Its like one post someone pointed out that if you have someone digging a ditch, you get multiple quotes and go with the best bang for the buck. It's no different in manufacturing and guess who gets the contract someone overseas.

Granted it'll be a painful transition, but I think for the long term it will be better and make us more competitive.

Lower labor costs eventually comes with lower consumer goods and major goods.

Whats are your thoughts and opinions on this?
 

foolishpride

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Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
343
Location
Southwestern Ohio
I've been a member on here for a little while and have been following this thread for awhile. While many say buy American only and not Chinese, in reality that is hard to do. Increase the import tariffs on chinese goods, that doesn't work either.

I think a possible viable solution is americans need to start accepting lower wages. The "economy" is global these days, if we can't compete with lower labor costs overseas the manufacturing industry and many other industries will eventually die out.

Its like one post someone pointed out that if you have someone digging a ditch, you get multiple quotes and go with the best bang for the buck. It's no different in manufacturing and guess who gets the contract someone overseas.

Granted it'll be a painful transition, but I think for the long term it will be better and make us more competitive.

Lower labor costs eventually comes with lower consumer goods and major goods.

Whats are your thoughts and opinions on this?

I'd agree with lowering labor costs if big corporations quit giving these upper management executives obscene amounts of bonus compensation. :mad:
 

benjamming

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Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
899
Location
Alabama
Originally Posted by Abbott
Great sig line Benjamming!

Huh? Someone used a similar line? I thought I was pretty original.

I think confusion has set in, or at least it has with me. Probably just looked at the wrong post or I was posting in my sleep!
 
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devilphrog

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Sep 13, 2009
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Melbourne, Florida
I'd agree with lowering labor costs if big corporations quit giving these upper management executives obscene amounts of bonus compensation. :mad:

While I do not agree with executive payment schedules and golden parachutes and believe there is a limit on what these individuals should make, these executives aren't giving themselves these bonuses. On a related note, there are CEO's and former board members of large companies who do not have huge compensation packages. I believe the past CEO's of Fastenal paid themselves between 60-100k. It is the shareholders who vote for these executives and their payment plans as well as voting to send manufacturing overseas in order to get a better return on their shares. We have nobody to blame but ourselves for this. Even the poorest standard of living in the U.S. is miles above the standard of living in other countries. At some point something is going to have to give, as in we must give up some of the qualities of life in order to level the playing field. Until then, manufacturers will continue sending operations overseas to increase profit margins and put money in shareholder's pockets.
 
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Abbott

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Messages
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Huh? Someone used a similar line? I thought I was pretty original.

Oops, It looks like I messed that up. Sorry 'bout that guys, it must be the fumes in the paint booth. Great sig. line xroad!!
 
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diogenes

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Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
480
Location
The State of Taxation
diogenes,

I believe we are saying the same thing. All corporations in China are subject to state ownership. Therefore, you can't sue a company there to make them clean up their act.

Yes we are. I was just making the broader point that it isn't just the Chinese government that immunizes themselves and we need to keep in mind the serious downside of allowing government to get in the business of providing manufacturing (GM, et al.) and heath care. At least when a manufacturer or BS/BC screws me I can sue 'em... For now.
 

JOHNMAN

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Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
194
Location
Southwest Indiana
Recently US increased tariff on some Chinese tire and steel product. China reciprocated with increased tariff on US chicken. Another example of protectionism never work. It damages both sides. It has been tried countless times throughout the history of the US. Yet, the people in charge never learn. I think it is use as a political tool. It is a feel good policy to pacified the constituents. Perhaps the politicians DO know it won't work. It serve to show that they are doing "something". Often, that is enough to make the stupid voter/supporter convinced. The solution lies somewhere else. There were tons of headline talks a couple of weeks ago. Here is one article I found amongst hundreds of hits on Google.

Sunday, February 07, 2010

China Announces 105% Tariffs on Chickens in Retaliation for US Steel and Tire Tariffs


In Steel Tariffs Show Protectionism On The Rise, I noted that 145% steel pipe and steel grating tariffs would bring a reaction from China.

Who Benefits From This?

Essentially no one. Potentially a few hundred steel workers get jobs back, but everyone using those products has to pay more. Demand will slow and price pressures will increase on everyone using those products. In aggregate, more jobs will be lost as a result of these tariffs than gained.

And that is just on the surface. Think China will not react? A nice clear message would be for China to cancel plane orders from Boeing or industrial goods from GE. Even if China is not so overt in its message, it is foolish to think there will be no repercussions over this.

The rising tide of protectionism is not a good thing. It never is.
105% Tariffs On US Chickens

Retaliation for 145% steel tariffs (on top of huge tire tariffs) has arrived: China announces anti-dumping steps on US chicken.
China announced anti-dumping duties of up to 105.4 percent Friday on imports of U.S. chicken products, adding to trade strains with Washington.

The case comes amid mutual accusations of protectionism by Beijing and Washington which both say will hurt efforts to end the global economic downturn.

A preliminary investigation concluded U.S. exports were being sold at improperly low prices that harmed Chinese competitors, the Commerce Ministry said. It said importers must post a bond until a final decision is reached.

Beijing launched the investigation in September after Washington raised duties on imports of Chinese-made tires despite vigorous opposition from China.

The two governments also are embroiled in disputes over access to each other's markets for steel pipes, movies and books and other goods.

The chicken duties take effect Feb. 13 and apply to whole birds, chicken sausage and other products, the Commerce Ministry said. Included are chicken feet, which most Americans throw away but which are a delicacy in southern China.

Companies that appealed the ruling will pay lower duties of 43.1 percent to 80.5 percent, the ministry said. Tyson Foods Inc. will be charged the lowest rate, while Pilgrim's Pride Corp. is at the top end of that range.

Importers that did not appeal will be charged 105.4 percent, the ministry said.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Any American job saved is worth while.

Why would we care if China reciprocates? We really don't "need" their junk. The masses need to be convinced that they should choose more wisely, but while they want everything to "cost less", they all want a raise. They need to understand that in order to

There needs to be a balance of trade. Apparently many don't comprehend this. Most folks aren't looking at the big picture and instead focus on poo-pooing ideas.

When nothing changes, things continue down the same path. It is claimed that "they" have tried it for years. I say "they" haven't tried hard enough.


What is an alternative solution?

I started out my solution stating that the majority of folks don't agree (and I'm right about that as well).
 

nolatoolguy

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Jan 11, 2010
Messages
1,065
Location
Louisiana
man i totally agree the thing is me and you may agre enow we just gotta get everyone else to. There comes a point between buying american vs buying cheep chinease but ide rather pay a few more bucks an wait an save longer for the american product then supporting china. Ime a proud american i believe that we as a nation need to support our own nation before supporting others.


What really gets me is how D.O.D an Homeland security and all those govermental agencies have contracts with foreighn countries to make our weapons an stuff
 

xroad

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Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
584
Obviously, you don't "get it".

Any American job saved is worth while.

Why would we care if China reciprocates? We really don't "need" their junk. The masses need to be convinced that they should choose more wisely, but while they want everything to "cost less", they all want a raise. They need to understand that in order to

There needs to be a balance of trade. Apparently many don't comprehend this. Most folks aren't looking at the big picture and instead focus on poo-pooing ideas.

When nothing changes, things continue down the same path. It is claimed that "they" have tried it for years. I say "they" haven't tried hard enough.


What is an alternative solution?

I started out my solution stating that the majority of folks don't agree (and I'm right about that as well).

Johnman, my friend, stay calm and read the article without getting too emotional. I DO "get it" and we SHOULD care when the Chinese retaliate. We really did not save any jobs. Well, we did save a few, maybe a whole lot of, steel industry and tire industry jobs. We also lost a whole lot of chicken industry jobs because of the lost of sales of Chicken product to the Chinese.

I am not saying we should do nothing. I am just saying protectionism never worked. Throughout history, many examples of such attempts, always failed. It hurts both sides. The goal is not having to cut our arm off so we can use it to whack the competitors.

A sneaking politician CAN use it as a tool to reward one segment of the population that supported him and hope the retaliation affects his political enemies and not another segment that supports him. If it does, he would have cover because "it is not his fault", it is the Chinese retaliating. I am not saying this is the case with Obama and the tires/steel and chicken trade war. My example applies to all politicians.

Don't be paranoid. I think most people AGREES with you. Of course the ideal situation is to have a balanced trade. I already said, I do not know what the solution is going to be. I am just stating that a tariff war don't work.
 
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Nealcrenshaw

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Messages
3,401
Location
Cleveland,OH
Food for thought: China is the appoximately the same size as the U.S with four(4x) times the population.

US POP. 300 MILL.
CHINA POP. 1.3 BILL.
 
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