Another Trusses/Ceiling Height Question

[Tony_G]

I've been searching online and have come across different threads on this forum about increasing the garage ceiling height to install a car lift.

There are also lots of YouTube videos, etc.

However, all of the examples I've come across are either detached garages or they have a separate roof from the rest of the house.

We have an attached garage, 10ft ceiling. The house is a big square, so basically, the garage ceiling trusses run from front (garage) to the back (master bedroom) of the house.

Has anyone here completed a similar project?

We do have a "coffered" ceiling in our master bedroom. I've been in the attic and have seen how it was framed, however, I would like to see some real examples of what has been/can be done.

When the time comes, I would hire an engineer, pull a permit, etc, but I'm just researching at this point.

Thanks!

 

[Firebrick43]

I've been searching online and have come across different threads on this forum about increasing the garage ceiling height to install a car lift.

There are also lots of YouTube videos, etc.

However, all of the examples I've come across are either detached garages or they have a separate roof from the rest of the house.

We have an attached garage, 10ft ceiling. The house is a big square, so basically, the garage ceiling trusses run from front (garage) to the back (master bedroom) of the house.

Has anyone here completed a similar project?

We do have a "coffered" ceiling in our master bedroom. I've been in the attic and have seen how it was framed, however, I would like to see some real examples of what has been/can be done.

When the time comes, I would hire an engineer, pull a permit, etc, but I'm just researching at this point.

Thanks!

Unless the garage wall separating the master bedroom is load bearing, I think your going to have a problem lifting the ceiling.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Attached garages usually have a fire resistant wall between the house and the garage that goes all the way up to the roof decking.

 

[Tony_G]

Unless the garage wall separating the master bedroom is load bearing, I think your going to have a problem lifting the ceiling.

I believe it is. But may I ask why is that?

Attached garages usually have a fire resistant wall between the house and the garage that goes all the way up to the roof decking.

Yes, there's a plywood wall all the way to the top. I cannot see how it looks on the other side because of a bunch of spray foam insulation.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Yes, there's a plywood wall all the way to the top. I cannot see how it looks on the other side because of a bunch of spray foam insulation.

If you alter that, you may void your fire insurance. Also, if you alter it, you may be liable for fire damage even after you sell the house.

 

[Tony_G]

If you alter that, you may void your fire insurance. Also, if you alter it, you may be liable for fire damage even after you sell the house.

I understand. This a tandem garage, I thought I had pictures in my signature but I think they're gone after the forum update.

Anyway, the part I would like to work on is towards the front of the house, about 15 ft from said wall. (Blue Square in the picture).

 

[Firebrick43]

I believe it is. But may I ask why is that?


Yes, there's a plywood wall all the way to the top. I cannot see how it looks on the other side because of a bunch of spray foam insulation.

Most houses, depending on the design, don't have interior load bearing walls if they have full span trusses. It sounds, with lack of pictures, that you have full span trusses and trusses 99.9 percent of the time are, ie, even if they cross an interior wall, they are not attached to it. The bottom cord of the standard warren and similar style trusses are in tension and very important to its strength. You can not just cut that bottom chord at the truss wall or the "WHOLE" truss losses strength.

Now if your wall is able to take a load, an engineer can design changes to the truss, in essence splitting the truss in half and making them two half trusses with the vertical load transferred to the load bearing wall. If your wall is not load bearing, it could be done still, but will probably require gutting the master bedroom to enable the whole truss to be either replaced in situ or new trusses placed next to the original and the originals cut away afterwards. In a typical shop this is not that hard to do as the whole truss is typically accessable but in a design like yours, not so much.

 

[Tony_G]

So, it is very likely I'm out of luck on this.

Most houses, depending on the design, don't have interior load bearing walls if they have full span trusses. It sounds, with lack of pictures, that you have full span trusses and trusses 99.9 percent of the time are, ie, even if they cross an interior wall, they are not attached to it. The bottom cord of the standard warren and similar style trusses are in tension and very important to its strength. You can not just cut that bottom chord at the truss wall or the "WHOLE" truss losses strength.

Now if your wall is able to take a load, an engineer can design changes to the truss, in essence splitting the truss in half and making them two half trusses with the vertical load transferred to the load bearing wall. If your wall is not load bearing, it could be done still, but will probably require gutting the master bedroom to enable the whole truss to be either replaced in situ or new trusses placed next to the original and the originals cut away afterwards. In a typical shop this is not that hard to do as the whole truss is typically accessable but in a design like yours, not so much.

 

[Firebrick43]

So, it is very likely I'm out of luck on this.

Any thing is possible, its just a question on time, money, effort, and probably most importantly, the possibility of disrupting the wifes bedroom..

Also remember we have not seen a single picture of your attic and the trusses. There are a lot of "***"umptions.

 

[Tony_G]

Absolutely, I'll get up there later today and show you.

 

[Nor'Easter]

The garage looks very narrow from the photo, I assume that just fitting two cars it becomes very tight. The narrowest lift you will find is gonna be around 10' wide, outside of the posts. This might prevent you from ever getting two cars in again? A 7' wide car becomes 10'+ with both doors open.

You can save some height by using a floorplate lift.

 

[zc15]

The garage looks very narrow from the photo, I assume that just fitting two cars it becomes very tight. The narrowest lift you will find is gonna be around 10' wide, outside of the posts. This might prevent you from ever getting two cars in again? A 7' wide car becomes 10'+ with both doors open.

You can save some height by using a floorplate lift.

Agreed. Quickjack or MaxJax might be the remedy here

 

[firebirdparts]

So, it is very likely I'm out of luck on this.

Well, it is what it is. You're talking about hacking into the structure of a larger building where there are lots of constraints here and there. It's very possible to do. Wood is a great material to work with, and ultimately, there is a way to raise the ceiling and replace part of those trusses with some other structure. If the walls through the middle of the house had a foundation under them (they don't) it would actually be somewhat easy.

What you can't do is ask us any meaningful question without giving us any real information about the building. We can't see what you've got there, so there's not much point in talking about it. You have to consider that somebody starts this thread once a week, 52 threads a year, so have some grace there. If you read any of these threads, you know what the options are.

GIven the language limitations we have, we don't even know for sure that you have trusses. I'm sure you do, I believe you, but one of the big hangups is that people don't use the language, and then of course people respond to it that don't understand it either.

 

[CraigStu]

As you explore changing the ceiling also look at different style lifts. If you get a style where the post have nothing connecting the tops together some have placed them so the posts protrude through the drywall of the ceiling. W/ 10 ft ceiling, imagine how tall your car is, and how tall you are. The car will shrink some from the height that you think of because it is going to be lifted at the rocker panels or frame, not from the bottom of the tires. So w/ 10ft to work with a 4ft tall car could be lifted enough that a 6ft person could walk under it. Maybe something along these lines could work and no need to cut the house.

 

[Tony_G]

Sorry it took so long to get the pictures. This is what I have above the garage, it is a bit more work to get above the master bedroom.

Here you can see that plywood wall I talked about in a previous post.

Then, kind of the area between the storage area and the parking area.

Then the front of the garage, where I park.

Well, it is what it is. You're talking about hacking into the structure of a larger building where there are lots of constraints here and there. It's very possible to do. Wood is a great material to work with, and ultimately, there is a way to raise the ceiling and replace part of those trusses with some other structure. If the walls through the middle of the house had a foundation under them (they don't) it would actually be somewhat easy.

What you can't do is ask us any meaningful question without giving us any real information about the building. We can't see what you've got there, so there's not much point in talking about it. You have to consider that somebody starts this thread once a week, 52 threads a year, so have some grace there. If you read any of these threads, you know what the options are.

GIven the language limitations we have, we don't even know for sure that you have trusses. I'm sure you do, I believe you, but one of the big hangups is that people don't use the language, and then of course people respond to it that don't understand it either.

I totally understand. Like I said, I'm just researching. Everything I see online is different, so that's why I decided to ask.

As you explore changing the ceiling also look at different style lifts. If you get a style where the post have nothing connecting the tops together some have placed them so the posts protrude through the drywall of the ceiling. W/ 10 ft ceiling, imagine how tall your car is, and how tall you are. The car will shrink some from the height that you think of because it is going to be lifted at the rocker panels or frame, not from the bottom of the tires. So w/ 10ft to work with a 4ft tall car could be lifted enough that a 6ft person could walk under it. Maybe something along these lines could work and no need to cut the house.

I'm mostly interested on the lift to fit a 3rd car in the garage, would one of those you mention work for that?

I have a mid size truck, 72" high, and the car I'm looking at is 57" high or 10.75 ft.

 

[Tony_G]

The garage looks very narrow from the photo, I assume that just fitting two cars it becomes very tight. The narrowest lift you will find is gonna be around 10' wide, outside of the posts. This might prevent you from ever getting two cars in again? A 7' wide car becomes 10'+ with both doors open.

Yes it is narrow, about 19' 7" wide.

 

[Firebrick43]

Is the bedroom on a slab or crawlspace?

 

[rancherbill]

If you alter that, you may void your fire insurance. Also, if you alter it, you may be liable for fire damage even after you sell the house.

He said he was going to get it properly engineered and that issue will be handled properly.

 

[rancherbill]

Sorry it took so long to get the pictures. This is what I have above the garage, it is a bit more work to get above the master bedroom.

I don't see a problem "removing" all the prebuilt Trusses and replacing with rafters. You need on-site engineering help. You need plans by a real architectural local draftsperson.

 

[Tony_G]

Is the bedroom on a slab or crawlspace?

A basement.

 

[Firebrick43]

My SWAG is that this is going to be pretty expensive and invasive to living areas to do. It is pretty much how I was envisioning the trusses. Its not going to be a simple "just replace with rafters as without a ridge beam you need rafter ties for the ceilings in both the garage and bedroom. Can you add on another single bay to the left of garage?

 

[quickfarms]

Really you need to get an engineer to look at the house and give you the options and budgetary costs, they may be way off due to the current crazy material costs.

 

[Tony_G]

My SWAG is that this is going to be pretty expensive and invasive to living areas to do. It is pretty much how I was envisioning the trusses. Its not going to be a simple "just replace with rafters as without a ridge beam you need rafter ties for the ceilings in both the garage and bedroom. Can you add on another single bay to the left of garage?

I wish I could, we only have about 10 ft on that side of the house. I want more land or a house with a bigger garage, but it is complicated at this point.

I also realized that a bunch of wires run through that spot (panel is right outside the garage) so the project would require lots of electrical work as well.
I can do a lot of it, but the bigger the scope of the project the longer it will take, the more expensive it will be, etc, etc.