Well, Christmas is soon approaching and the wife keeps asking what I want for Christmas. I recently took a welding class at a local high school in the evenings, we did some stick welding and a little mig. I was kind of disappointed as the instructor was not very good, or at guess maybe he did not have enough time to explain things very clearly. With that said, I want to get a welder for Christmas but not really sure what I should get (stick or mig). It’s going to be a hobby welder for practicing, making little projects or fixing things around the house. With that said what kind of welder would be best suited for my needs? Do you guys recommend a particular welder? My budget is about a 1000 or less. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
Another welding newbie question
- Thread starter Stealth
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Only you can determine your needs. You've experienced both stick and MIG, so you have an idea what they can do. MIG's are nice but expensive and won't do everything, if it is a 115V model.
I started with Ox-A, then stick then MIG. Stick is the least costly and can do a lot, but not really thin body work stuff. I have done exhaust work with my Lincoln tombstone and 3/32" rods...........not pretty but it works. It is really up to you......................
I started with Ox-A, then stick then MIG. Stick is the least costly and can do a lot, but not really thin body work stuff. I have done exhaust work with my Lincoln tombstone and 3/32" rods...........not pretty but it works. It is really up to you......................
I have been around welding for 25yrs, own my own welding business for about 6yrs. That being said, I have a little experience with my opinion. I would recommend a Lincoln 180C (not the 180T) or a miller equivalent. I don't like the tapped (180T) models, you can't fine tune them like you can the variable resister (180C) I think it stands for constant. A beginner will not be able to tell but an experienced welder can tell the difference. I also would not recommend the 120V models. You will find its limit fast.
You can also add a cheap spool gun to the 180C for welding light aluminum. All of my equipment is Lincoln but I have nothing against miller. Don't get a harbor freight or any other cheap welder.
Don't mess with the gasless wire, get a bottle of C25 (75%argon/25%CO2) and use solid core wire. It is very versatile and easy to use, and you will be amazed how often you will use it.
You can also add a cheap spool gun to the 180C for welding light aluminum. All of my equipment is Lincoln but I have nothing against miller. Don't get a harbor freight or any other cheap welder.
Don't mess with the gasless wire, get a bottle of C25 (75%argon/25%CO2) and use solid core wire. It is very versatile and easy to use, and you will be amazed how often you will use it.
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bimmer1980
Well-known member
Welcome to the board!
Here's a couple of thoughts for you...
For random do it yourself stuff, a good little 120V mig welder with the gas option will cause you the least amount of headaches. I currently have a variety of welders and have used a variety in the past. My Century 110 with infinite heat adjustment, wire speed and a good sized bottle of gas has served me well. I also have one that only uses the flux core. The gas is certainly nice and produces nicer welds.
The stick welder is nice for heaver steel and structural welding.
Basically, for about 1/8" and less, the mig is the way to go. If you are consistently going to weld heavier stuff, then a stick welder may suit you better.
For your $1000 budget, you would definitely be able to get a nice 120v mig welder, helmet, gloves, etc. I personally would look for a used one to bring the price down, but sometimes it is satisfying to buy new to eliminate a variable..... If you find some deals, you may even be able to get one of each on your $1000 budget. A number of years ago, I think I paid about $500 for the century with gas from the welding store--that included a gas bottle. We ended up trading it in for a larger bottle as we only got the little one. A couple of years ago I picked up the flux core Century for $40 on craigslist. A year ago, I picked up an AC/DC lincoln stick welder for $180. After that, it is just money on consumables......
Check out the Hobart line at Tractor supply stores. Lincoln and Miller are always good options--I have had some of each....
Once you have it, practice, practice, practice...browse the Fabrication section on here. there are already some excellent threads on techniques, etc.
Best of luck!
Here's a couple of thoughts for you...
For random do it yourself stuff, a good little 120V mig welder with the gas option will cause you the least amount of headaches. I currently have a variety of welders and have used a variety in the past. My Century 110 with infinite heat adjustment, wire speed and a good sized bottle of gas has served me well. I also have one that only uses the flux core. The gas is certainly nice and produces nicer welds.
The stick welder is nice for heaver steel and structural welding.
Basically, for about 1/8" and less, the mig is the way to go. If you are consistently going to weld heavier stuff, then a stick welder may suit you better.
For your $1000 budget, you would definitely be able to get a nice 120v mig welder, helmet, gloves, etc. I personally would look for a used one to bring the price down, but sometimes it is satisfying to buy new to eliminate a variable..... If you find some deals, you may even be able to get one of each on your $1000 budget. A number of years ago, I think I paid about $500 for the century with gas from the welding store--that included a gas bottle. We ended up trading it in for a larger bottle as we only got the little one. A couple of years ago I picked up the flux core Century for $40 on craigslist. A year ago, I picked up an AC/DC lincoln stick welder for $180. After that, it is just money on consumables......
Check out the Hobart line at Tractor supply stores. Lincoln and Miller are always good options--I have had some of each....
Once you have it, practice, practice, practice...browse the Fabrication section on here. there are already some excellent threads on techniques, etc.
Best of luck!
Thermal Arc 181i mig/dc-tig/stick/spoolgun ready..
they are selling with mig gun/stick electrode holder and ground cable/clamp for like $810 from indiana oxygen with free auto-darkening helmet..
like $910 with tig torch included.
http://store.cyberweld.com/tharcfa18miw.html
http://www.weldersupply.com/productdetails.asp?cat=Mig+Welding&ID=36&pID=538
http://www.scottgrossstore.com/servlet/the-64905/Thermal-Arc-Fabricator-181i/Detail
they are selling with mig gun/stick electrode holder and ground cable/clamp for like $810 from indiana oxygen with free auto-darkening helmet..
like $910 with tig torch included.
http://store.cyberweld.com/tharcfa18miw.html
http://www.weldersupply.com/productdetails.asp?cat=Mig+Welding&ID=36&pID=538
http://www.scottgrossstore.com/servlet/the-64905/Thermal-Arc-Fabricator-181i/Detail
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ourkid2000
Well-known member
If I may jump in and ask a newbie question....
People seem to always say that the 115v models can be very versatile because they can be used almost anywhere. However, I've noticed that many of the 115v welders are set up for a 20A circuit (the plug is different, as you probably know). Most circuits I see around the typical home are 15A......rarely do I see a 20A outlet.
So it seems to me that if they have to have that special 20A circuit, why bother? Seeing as though you'll probably have to rewire everything to get that circuit, you might as well put in a 230v.......am I wrong?
People seem to always say that the 115v models can be very versatile because they can be used almost anywhere. However, I've noticed that many of the 115v welders are set up for a 20A circuit (the plug is different, as you probably know). Most circuits I see around the typical home are 15A......rarely do I see a 20A outlet.
So it seems to me that if they have to have that special 20A circuit, why bother? Seeing as though you'll probably have to rewire everything to get that circuit, you might as well put in a 230v.......am I wrong?
bigdav160
Well-known member
I think it depends on what type of welding you plan to do.
If you're going to weld heavy gauge dirty metal "stick" is the only way to go. With no gas bottle to worry about , this is used exclusively on my Dad's farm.
Mig welding is easy, versatile but requires cleaner metal. With 1k to spend I'd step up to a 200 class machine. I have a Thermoarc 120V welder (15a plug) that welds but really is a POS. I also have a older, larger Century MIG. It does a good job but the duty cycle isn't that high and the gas solenoid went out.
I do most of my welding with a TIG (Miller Dynasty -sweeet!). It's slower, the metal has to be cleaner and the sun burns can be bad but there is nothing finer than welding with a TIG torch. (And it's not that hard to learn.)
If you're going to weld heavy gauge dirty metal "stick" is the only way to go. With no gas bottle to worry about , this is used exclusively on my Dad's farm.
Mig welding is easy, versatile but requires cleaner metal. With 1k to spend I'd step up to a 200 class machine. I have a Thermoarc 120V welder (15a plug) that welds but really is a POS. I also have a older, larger Century MIG. It does a good job but the duty cycle isn't that high and the gas solenoid went out.
I do most of my welding with a TIG (Miller Dynasty -sweeet!). It's slower, the metal has to be cleaner and the sun burns can be bad but there is nothing finer than welding with a TIG torch. (And it's not that hard to learn.)
For anything but heavy farm use or on-site repair I'd avoid a stick welder. If this would be for body work or welding steel in your shop or garage get a MIG machine. The bottled gas is not much of an inconvenience as some people make it sound. MIG is the easiest of the welding disciplines to learn, and you will get more frustrated with the limitations of a stick welder for your intended use than wire feed. Lincoln and Miller both make 120 machines capable of effectively welding 3/16". If you are worried about rusty metal, I' assuming you have an angle grinder.
Here is what I tell people looking to purchase a welder for non-industrial, personal use:
A quality 120V machine is going to require a dedicated 20A circuit and outlet. If you have one, go for it. If you don't and will have to add a circuit, you will be FAR better off and happier adding 240 for the same amount of work. Unfortunately, a lot of times people with little welding experience get enticed by seeing a 120V welder and thinking they can just take it home, plug it in and start welding. Even worse is when people take their existing circuit and just replace outlets.
It might cost ~10% more to get started by adding a 240V circuit, but believe me that it will make the experience much more and headache-free. I had a neighbor last year who wanted me to get him started welding (I keep my AWS number current even though I'm a desk guy now). I said no problem, but when I finally came over he's got a little Hobart hobby welder hooked up to a 15A circuit. He wanted to weld up a bench out of 1/4" angle. I said I'd give it a go, but there was no way I was going to even get it tacked together. Tripped the breaker about 3 times and I finally just told him. "Look, you're going to need a separate circuit and outlet for this thing." Then he gave me a lesson on electricity and said that the manual said the welder ran on 120 volts, and that the had a 20 amp breaker on that circuit with 12GA romex. I gave up right there. To my knowledge he still has the thing and I highly doubt if it gets used. The guy has probably written off trying to weld at home for what would have cost him $15 in materials MAYBE. He already had the outlet for God's sake.
Go 240V. When you do get the hang of welding, you will hit the limit of a 120 machine almost immediately and wish you had more amperage.
Here is what I tell people looking to purchase a welder for non-industrial, personal use:
A quality 120V machine is going to require a dedicated 20A circuit and outlet. If you have one, go for it. If you don't and will have to add a circuit, you will be FAR better off and happier adding 240 for the same amount of work. Unfortunately, a lot of times people with little welding experience get enticed by seeing a 120V welder and thinking they can just take it home, plug it in and start welding. Even worse is when people take their existing circuit and just replace outlets.
It might cost ~10% more to get started by adding a 240V circuit, but believe me that it will make the experience much more and headache-free. I had a neighbor last year who wanted me to get him started welding (I keep my AWS number current even though I'm a desk guy now). I said no problem, but when I finally came over he's got a little Hobart hobby welder hooked up to a 15A circuit. He wanted to weld up a bench out of 1/4" angle. I said I'd give it a go, but there was no way I was going to even get it tacked together. Tripped the breaker about 3 times and I finally just told him. "Look, you're going to need a separate circuit and outlet for this thing." Then he gave me a lesson on electricity and said that the manual said the welder ran on 120 volts, and that the had a 20 amp breaker on that circuit with 12GA romex. I gave up right there. To my knowledge he still has the thing and I highly doubt if it gets used. The guy has probably written off trying to weld at home for what would have cost him $15 in materials MAYBE. He already had the outlet for God's sake.
Go 240V. When you do get the hang of welding, you will hit the limit of a 120 machine almost immediately and wish you had more amperage.
sammon287
Active member
I'm a beginner, so take this for what it's worth (almost nothing). I have similar goals to yours. I did some research and got a Hobart Handler 187 (240V)from Tractor Supply for about $650. A big decision maker for me besides positive reviews was the fact that the Hobart is US made, whereas the Lincoln equivalent I looked at at the weld shop was made in Mexico. I found it cheaper online, but preferred not to have something like that shipped to my house. I did buy a welding cart at China Freight (hypocrisy?). I could never build one myself at the sale price, and I wanted to get up and running on other projects. I did have a 240V outlet in the garage that was supposed to be for a larger air compressor that I haven't bought yet, but I ran my own line for a heater and that wasn't hard to do. I leased a medium sized gas bottle from the local weld shop and it is going to last me a long time at the current rate. I don't remember the cost, but it was very reasonable considering how rarely I will need refills.
So far, I built a trailer adapter for my dad's lawn tractor attachments, a metal frame to hoist my Jeep hardtop to the ceiling, some table clamps for my drill press, and patched a good sized hole in my Jeep's floor pan. Actually the first thing I fixed with it was a little toy RC car with a plastic chassis that broke in half. I folded up some sheet metal and tacked the sides to use as a frame support.
So far, I built a trailer adapter for my dad's lawn tractor attachments, a metal frame to hoist my Jeep hardtop to the ceiling, some table clamps for my drill press, and patched a good sized hole in my Jeep's floor pan. Actually the first thing I fixed with it was a little toy RC car with a plastic chassis that broke in half. I folded up some sheet metal and tacked the sides to use as a frame support.
2manytoyz
Well-known member
I'm a DIY type, not a pro. Don't have the experience others have, but I also don't have access to professional equipment.
That said, from the occasional homeowner DIY welder perspective, I'd recommend a 120V MIG welder. I've owned a small stick welder, and it was a PITA. The welds were difficult to do, and the results were messy. Keep in mind, NOT using pro-equipment.
I finally bought a small Lincoln MIG welder. Wow, what a difference. It's easy to use, and the quality of the welds are pretty good, despite my lack of experience and training. I bought mine at Home Depot, and later added the MIG option. For home projects, this is the stuff! No, I can't weld massive farm equipment, bridges, etc. But that's not what "I" needed.
A couple of sample projects.
Put a basic hitch on my riding mower to haul the utility trailer from the back of the lot.
Built a generator cart.
Built frames for solar panels:
More projects planned...
That said, from the occasional homeowner DIY welder perspective, I'd recommend a 120V MIG welder. I've owned a small stick welder, and it was a PITA. The welds were difficult to do, and the results were messy. Keep in mind, NOT using pro-equipment.
I finally bought a small Lincoln MIG welder. Wow, what a difference. It's easy to use, and the quality of the welds are pretty good, despite my lack of experience and training. I bought mine at Home Depot, and later added the MIG option. For home projects, this is the stuff! No, I can't weld massive farm equipment, bridges, etc. But that's not what "I" needed.
A couple of sample projects.
Put a basic hitch on my riding mower to haul the utility trailer from the back of the lot.
Built a generator cart.
Built frames for solar panels:
More projects planned...
+1 - Agree completely. I bought a miller 135 (120v) unit of CL cause I am starting to do some rust repair and thought I'd never really use it for anything more then sheetmetal. Suprise suprise I was wrong. My FIL was smart and purchased a Millermatic 180 (220v) and I am having to go over to his place to finish work I can't do with mine. Really *****.
Keep an eye on Ebay for scratch and dent models. He got his for around 600 with a small scuff on it (rubbed it off with his fingernail). Even at 700 still plent of room for a tank, gloves, clamps, and a helmet. Build your own welding cart. Oh and whatever is left over buy flap discs. You'll need em.
Enjoy it - it is definately fun to learn. Remeber, you don't have to be good at welding, grinding is the important part.
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Zeke
Well-known member
No, penetration is the important part. And I have trouble with good, deep penetration with the Weld Pac 100. I might need a new tip, but other than that, it performs as it should.
I disagree about not using flux core wire feed. This option gives you more portability and the ability to penetrate 1/4 steel for a good weld. If you spend some time at it, flux core won't even be as messy as people will insist it is.
I disagree about not using flux core wire feed. This option gives you more portability and the ability to penetrate 1/4 steel for a good weld. If you spend some time at it, flux core won't even be as messy as people will insist it is.
Oh I suppose I can go along with that as well.
Save yourself some money, go straight to a 220v unit or a dual voltage unit.
I own a 180c, its ok, but I will get rid of it when Thermal Arc comes out with their 200amp mig/dc-tig/stick/spoolgun machine..
Only machines I'm interested are the thermal arc 181i,252i and the 200amp model they havent released yet. simply because the thermal arcs are so much more versatile.
I've had my thermal arc 185 ac/dc tig for right at 6 yrs, its a top quality machine.
if you must have a Lincoln, they have a dual voltage 180c machine available now..
I own a 180c, its ok, but I will get rid of it when Thermal Arc comes out with their 200amp mig/dc-tig/stick/spoolgun machine..
Only machines I'm interested are the thermal arc 181i,252i and the 200amp model they havent released yet. simply because the thermal arcs are so much more versatile.
I've had my thermal arc 185 ac/dc tig for right at 6 yrs, its a top quality machine.
if you must have a Lincoln, they have a dual voltage 180c machine available now..
I started with a Hobart Handler 140. Great for around the house use, with gas or with flux core. I made a wrought iron fence for the front yard with it as my first project. With that one job, I erased all wife-related annoyance with my welding hobby. 
I traded up to a Millermatic 211 after that. The motivation was not about being frustrated with the limitations of a 120v machine. I just saw a new MM211 for $750 and couldn't resist the price (this was right when they came out -- there might be more deals like that nowadays). The advantage to the 211 is that you can run it on either 240v or 120v. For household use, this is awesome -- unless everything you're welding can be carried into the garage. (I see they can be found for $995, too.)
But it depends on your use. Guys who only work on stuff clamped down in their shop will get the most bang for the buck from a 240V machine. They won't see a need to pay for the 120v option. In my case, I'm glad I did.
I've also been happy with (yikes!) the little Harbor Freight stick box I paid $89 for. As an even-more-portable option (it's about the size and weight of a toaster), it was awesome when I needed to do work up on the roof. It's currently $149 at HF, but is still a bargain if you know how to weld stick and need extreme portability.
I traded up to a Millermatic 211 after that. The motivation was not about being frustrated with the limitations of a 120v machine. I just saw a new MM211 for $750 and couldn't resist the price (this was right when they came out -- there might be more deals like that nowadays). The advantage to the 211 is that you can run it on either 240v or 120v. For household use, this is awesome -- unless everything you're welding can be carried into the garage. (I see they can be found for $995, too.)
But it depends on your use. Guys who only work on stuff clamped down in their shop will get the most bang for the buck from a 240V machine. They won't see a need to pay for the 120v option. In my case, I'm glad I did.
I've also been happy with (yikes!) the little Harbor Freight stick box I paid $89 for. As an even-more-portable option (it's about the size and weight of a toaster), it was awesome when I needed to do work up on the roof. It's currently $149 at HF, but is still a bargain if you know how to weld stick and need extreme portability.
gsport
Well-known member
i agree with jack.. i traded in a Clarke 110 for a Miller 211, and i'm totally happy with it..
Wow! Thank you guys for the input. I read through the posts and took into consideration many of the things that were advised and suggested. What are your opinions on the Lincoln MIG 180 Dual, it’s a 120V or 220V MIG welder? Mr. Jack Olsen also sugested a Millermatic that is also a dual input which I would also consider. Thanks again all!
metalmagpie
Well-known member
This guy knows what he's talking about. I absolutely second his recommendations absolutely. I have a better reason to not buy the 'T' version of Lincoln small MIGs. I had one fail on me recently, SP-175T I bought brand new and only used a couple years. After I dug into the problem, I found out that the board power was fed through that voltage switch, and that the voltage switch wiper's copper contact had worn nearly 100% away. The replacement switch is inexpensive (about $40) but the effort involved to actually replace the switch is enormous. Way not worth it. It's a bad design and a cheap part both. Two bad things. The 'C' version (continuous voltage) does not suffer from either limitation.
That being said, I really recommend the MillerMatic 210 Autoset. That is one sweet sweet machine. All metal drive rolls, really well engineered components, and all you have to do is enter the wire size and workpiece thickness and it will dial in the welder for you. Popular Mechanics absolutely raved over this welder recently.
You can save a few bucks and buy a Hobart Handler 175.
For entry-level stick welders I strongly suggest avoiding both the Lincoln tombstone and the Miller Thunderbolt. Both have aluminum-wound transformers and a minuscule 20% duty cycle at any current level. It's just too easy to exceed that duty cycle and hurt your transformer. I recommend the older Lincoln IdealArc 250/250, which can run 1/8" stick at 100% duty cycle all day long, has a copper wound transformer, and, being so out of style, often go for around $100. Regardless of which stick welder you buy, do not buy one without leads. Welding leads are like solid gold these days, a shocking sum if you have to replace them.
metalmagpie
Buy both types of welders, I did. Less then 1000.00 for all my gear and still money left for beer. Tractor Supply has the Hobart on sale! The Linclon cost me less then 100.00 used. I gave 600.00 for the Hobart. The Hobart is on sale for 499.00 right now
The Hobart is on sale for 499.00 right nowAttachments
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ZRX61
Well-known member
Some great deals out there on HH187's...
In most cases there are 15A recepts on a 20a circuit. 12 gauge wire to the recepts w/20A breaker, only recepts are 15. So swapping a single receptacle is all that's normally needed.
R-132 Fan
Well-known member
Whatever machine you end up buying, get a pair of sleves to protect your forearms. They sell pull on sleves made of fireresistant material that will protect your forearms from burns from spatter and sparks. After years of welding I bought a pair last year and there are money well spent. Welding is so much more enjoyable when you aren't having spatter burn through your shirt sleves and into your skin.