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Another "what wire size" thread (sorry)

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PJDiesel

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I have a 130 foot run, looking to put a 100 amp service in my new pole building. Only about 24' of it is underground, the rest will be run in my basement. I have 2" conduit going in the ground tomorrow morning.

I've read a lot about this quadplex, 2-2-2-6 (or whatever).

Would that work for me? If not, what should I be looking at.

Cost is a factor, I know I should do it right the first time, but if it gets too expensive, I may not being doing it AT ALL. :(

So, aluminum is an option for me.

Thanks in advance.

Phil
 
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Aceman

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1. Will the garage be fed off your house panel?
2. Can you run conduit the whole way, including the basement?
3. Are you set on a 100 amp subpanel or do you just think you need that much?
4. Do you have any idea what kind of equipment your going to have out there and what kind of loads you'll have?
 
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PJDiesel

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1) Yes
2) can, would rather not, but will if necessary.
3) No, probably DON'T need that much, I am very conservative with my consumption, will be installing T-8 fixtures, my compressor is relatively small, ~15 FLA.
4) Compressor, probably 120V mig, lift, not much else, commercial garage door openers. 98% of the uses will be intermittent, in other words, I won't be welding, plasma cutting, blasting indoor and outdoor lighting and running two grinders at a time or anything like that.
 
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mmg440

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One of the biggest factors on the amp you use and need are if you are running any electric heat??

Water heater for hot water or for in floor or perhaps any other type of heaters.
 
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PJDiesel

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mmg440 said:
One of the biggest factors on the amp you use and need are if you are running any electric heat??

Water heater for hot water or for in floor or perhaps any other type of heaters.
Click to expand...

No and No.

I have a 140K BTU oil fired Modine ceiling mount going in, it draws 10 FL amps.

Water heater if there ever was to be one would be a tiny on-demand unit for the sink, doubtful that will ever happen though.
 
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sberry

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This wire is a bargain for what it does, money well spent. As for boxes this is got a couple things going against it. You will need a main breaker, that will eat 2 spaces. As for the cost you could buy at a box store the Homeline for about the same money including breakers, that would be a deal if you needed QO and an outdoor box which makes it a bit more pricey. For that type of garage and considering the effort, a Homeline 100A main breaker panel with 20 spaces. A single pole breaker is about 4$.
 
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dstryr

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The craigslist item is a 6 space main lug outdoor loadcenter. It may work just fine indoors but then you will want to know if the box has a closure plate on top or not, depending on how you will feed power to it. If there is no closure plate or hub you'll need one or the other. If it is used it may also have knockouts knocked out of it for conduit entry and if you don't reuse the holes they will need to be closed. Is six spaces enough for you? It has 2 2-pole breakers and 2 single 15s and that will fill it. You can use twin breakers to get more circuits out of that box but a new 8 or 12 space panel should run you less than $50 at a DIY store and you can select the breakers you need.
 
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rburke65

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I agree with sberry27.....Me electrician for 40 years.....four 4's and a 60 amp. breaker and you should be just fine for what your going to be doing.
 
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Aceman

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A few different ways of doing this:

1. Pipe it the whole way and run #2 AL mobile home feeder cable(probably what you're referring to as quad). 90 amps available.

2. Pipe it the whole way and run #4 CU(90 amps) or #3 cu(100 amps).

3. Pipe it to the house following one of the wiring methods above. But instead, hit a junction box and splice onto a cable(either SER or Romex) and run that through the house without conduit. But...cable has a slightly lower ampacity than those conductors you installed in conduit.

For example, you pull #2 Al mobile home feeder from the junction box to garage. From the j-box to the main house panel you run #2 AL SER cable which is rated at 80 amps max, now you have reduced your entire run down to that rating. Plus, the cost of a junction box and insulated taps, etc to splice those large wires.

Regardless of what method you choose, a 100 amp main breaker panel for the garage is probably the ticket. Find one with at least 12 or so spaces, so space isn't an issue in the future.

Mobile home feeder:
http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet15

SER(it would be the 3 cond. with a bare ground):
http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet273

sberry27 said:
The number 2 quad is the ticket, put a 90 or smaller breaker in the main panel, I usually use a 60, they are cheap.
Click to expand...

You mentioned a 2p 60 breaker is cheap. Then why spend the extra money on #2 AL wire if you're going to limit it with a 60 amp breaker? He might as well pull #6 Cu then.
 
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sberry

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You mentioned a 2p 60 breaker is cheap. Then why spend the extra money on #2 AL wire if you're going to limit it with a 60 amp breaker? He might as well pull #6 Cu then.
Click to expand...
I do it for a couple of reasons, 1, if it were ever to become an issue the breaker could be changed, 2nd, with longer runs the 2 wire is good for voltage drop and motor starts and as a side note I use the 2 because its cheap, you can buy it for less than 6 copper, in some cases less than 10/3 UF. At 60A a 6 would be fully loaded, at 60A a 2 only 2/3.
 
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PJDiesel

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Okay. Obviously I am a little behind where I thought I would be.

The electrical supply place is telling me basically the same thing that "Aceman" did, except they tell me I CANNOT run the SER in conduit underground. Something about the inner wires (uninsulated) corroding.

Questions I have are:

1) What wire CAN be run underground in 2" conduit?
2) Is there a wire I can run all the way, meaning, NOT in conduit while it's in the house, in the basement? (if not, see #3)
3) What type of junction box should I be looking at, and how are the connections actually made? Would it make sense for this to just be a main switch at this point.

Inside run is right at 100 Feet, outside is 32 feet, (underground in conduit).

Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

Phil
 
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walrus

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PJDiesel said:
1) What wire CAN be run underground in 2" conduit?
2) Is there a wire I can run all the way, meaning, NOT in conduit while it's in the house, in the basement? (if not, see #3)
3) What type of junction box should I be looking at, and how are the connections actually made? Would it make sense for this to just be a main switch at this point.
Phil
Click to expand...

1. THWN can be run in pipe underground. you could also use USE which is a cable
2. SER can be run in the basement
3. PVC box, not sure what size you'd need but you can them 12" by 12" by 4" pretty readily, polaris connectors can be used to splice the cable in the box
 
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