another Williams vs SK tool question

[laser3kw]

I am considering new sockets to replace my Craftsman. My research here suggest, if you don't want tool truck experiences, that either JH Williams or SK tool are top line stuff. So, I researched both lines. Both have comparably offerings as far as, drive size, socket count and size range standard and metric. The only real question is price. I compared price for both on comparable sets and found that JH Williams is always less expensive. The SK tool sets were generally 40 to 100 percent higher.
Now, price doesn't bother me. I am puzzled at why similar tools are so far apart on price. Is the SK tool worth the extra money? Is there something intrinsic that I am missing?

 

[jakemac]

I'm short on details, but I've heard that SnapOn has had some of the Williams production done overseas. While Ideal has committed to US production of SK by building a new state of the art manufacturing facility on the same property as the old facility.

This may play into the pricing structures.

 

[Jbullfrog]

The Williams may be imported and may be a bear to get replaced, as it is a subsidiary of Snapon, where SK is produced in the USA with the same tooling that has always been used.

 

[Brownsfan]

The Williams sets with all numbers in the part number are Taiwan. The letter number combo part numbers are USA made. I considered this a while back and came to the conclusion that my USA made craftsman had served me fine for years and is of great quality for the price I paid. I have never broken one. Just lost them. The only reason I would upgrade would be if my job required me to use them heavily.

 

[laser3kw]

I'm short on details, but I've heard that SnapOn has had some of the Williams production done overseas

I read that here on GJ. The rule of thumb with JH WIlliams is:
if the part number is all numeric (such as 31936), it is Taiwan.
if the part number has alpha- numeric ( msbd-19hrc), it is USA manufacture.
All my comparisons were Williams alpha- numeric part numbers.

PS:
I went total OCD on this.
I have a spread sheet with all the Williams and SK tool socket sets on it. The spread sheet list drive size (separate complete lists for 1/4" drive and 3/8" drive), socket count, size range, deep or shallow, 6 point, part number and typical online price.

 

[Firebrick43]

Are you comparing USA Williams or tiwanese? USA stuff starts with letters and overseas stuff has an all number part number.

2 years ago I bought the 1/4 and 3/8 master sk sets and were cheaper and more complete than the USA Williams. These were deep/short metric/sae complete sets. If you bought individual sets such as a deep metric 3/8 it was significantly more expensive.

http://www.tooltopia.com/sk-hand-tool-94549.aspx

Just a 39 piece metric set from Williams is more expensive and doesn't give you the sae. And if you buy the comparable sae set you will have multiples of drive tools

https://www.toolsource.com/sets-c-194_252_257_604_736/38-inch-drive-6-12-pt-metric-socket-and-drive-tool-set-39-pc-p-126197.html

 

[T45]

SK, Proto, and Wright can all be expensive if you buy them New. Williams (USA) has some low cost suppliers available. In general, I would say its almost always premature to say that one brand is sold at a certain price point. IIRC some of the brands even enforce minmmum advertised pricing standards. Its a touchy subject to be honest, probably why the responses above are all un-satisfactory.

I would not look at SK as inherently superior quality to proto, wright, or USA williams. If anything I'd likely say given its history SK has a long track record of inconsitent quality going back decades--some relating to introduction of new technoloy, and some just relating to unstable management and precarious financial condition.

Assuming you get good examples from a good production run, I'd say there is no reason to think SK would be a problem. But also no reason to think it would be inherently better than Williams USA.

Especially with chrome sockets, the only real-world differences today seem to be ergonomics, and then the very high and very low end. In the middle price/quality points, modern flank-drive sockets are all very decent.

 

[T45]

SK, Proto, and Wright can all be expensive if you buy them New. Williams (USA) has some low cost suppliers available. In general, I would say its almost always premature to say that one brand is sold at a certain price point. MSRP, street prices, and used/secondary prices all are quite different.

On the other hand, IIRC some of the brands (sk?) may try enforce minmmum advertised pricing standards on distributors. Its a touchy subject to be honest, probably why the responses above are all un-satisfactory.

I would not look at SK as inherently superior quality to proto, wright, or USA williams. If anything I'd likely say given its history SK has a long track record of inconsitent quality going back decades--some relating to introduction of new technoloy, and some just relating to unstable management and precarious financial condition.

Assuming you get good examples from a good production run, I'd say there is no reason to think SK would be a problem. But also no reason to think it would be inherently better than Williams USA.

Especially with chrome sockets, the only real-world differences today seem to be ergonomics, and then the very high and very low end. In the middle price/quality points, modern flank-drive sockets are all very decent.

 

[laser3kw]

I just saw this thread
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359803
that is good to hear.

T45 - thanks for bringing that up. I have read here on GJ of the very problems you stated.

So it seems the race is between
Williams as a good quality with a consistent stable product line, lower in price
or
SK tool - a recognized tool line with good customer service, the only detractor is past performance on quality issues. Today's current offerings maybe better. Maybe the extra money is to help defer the customer service expenses.

 

[laser3kw]

ok
so I just compared Proto prices to SK and Williams
Proto prices are similar (a few dollars lower) to SK.

I just got a 3/8" Williams USA SAE/Metric set on amazon blowout for $68 and love it so far. The Williams ratchets are a great deal too.

got a link to that? I don't seem to find those type of deals.

 

[cheechi]

KISS. buy all the USA Williams sets and then decide how much more you want to spend.

The Taiwan Williams are exactly Taiwan Blue Point sockets, if you have any experience with them that can help you decide. Personally I have both kinds of Williams, and am happy to use either. I have several other Taiwan sockets (in fact for a fun comparison Williams era Kobalt to Taiwan Kobalt I will say the same thing) and will say that while I do like the USA ones better, if all you could afford or get was Taiwan Williams you would have nice sockets. Maybe not as shiny as SK have the potential to be, but totally functional and I don't have a bad chrome job, crack, sloppy knurling, or other issue I've seen in some SK tools throughout the years.

I look at SK tools on an individual basis, as a whole they are too far across the spectrum to make any valuable generalization.

 

[Wamsutta]

1. The Williams sockets come in two versions: USA made and Taiwan made. The part numbers tell the story.

2. SK deep sockets are only broached deep enough for a hex nut and a stud. If you need a deep socket to turn an oil pressure switch or a sensor, forget it; not going to happen with SK.

 

[laser3kw]

KISS. buy all the USA Williams sets and then decide how much more you want to spend.

Yea, I tend to over think things like this, a bad habit I picked up at work.
Seems Williams (USA) keeps boiling to the top all the time. Funny thing is, SK tool is only 30 minutes away from me.
Thanks to all who responded (so far). Keep it coming, others may need this info in the future.

 

[pstemari]

My experience with Williams combination wrenches were that they ran oversize. I sent them back to Amazon and replaced them with Protos. I've been very happy with both Proto and SK: tight tolerances, nice fit, no problems.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[cheechi]

SK deep sockets are only broached deep enough for a hex nut and a stud. If you need a deep socket to turn an oil pressure switch or a sensor, forget it; not going to happen with SK.

This is also true of the USA Williams deep sockets as of ~2013.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I have some newer SK stuff, I've been well pleased with it. I expect this SK stuff to last longer than I do

 

[Firebrick43]

KISS. buy all the USA Williams sets and then decide how much more you want to spend.

The Taiwan Williams are exactly Taiwan Blue Point sockets, if you have any experience with them that can help you decide. Personally I have both kinds of Williams, and am happy to use either. I have several other Taiwan sockets (in fact for a fun comparison Williams era Kobalt to Taiwan Kobalt I will say the same thing) and will say that while I do like the USA ones better, if all you could afford or get was Taiwan Williams you would have nice sockets. Maybe not as shiny as SK have the potential to be, but totally functional and I don't have a bad chrome job, crack, sloppy knurling, or other issue I've seen in some SK tools throughout the years.

I look at SK tools on an individual basis, as a whole they are too far across the spectrum to make any valuable generalization.

I have seen a lot of USA Williams full polish tools in the last decade, especially wrenches with peeling chrome. It's a shame as I really like the shape.

All of the current ideal owned sk I have bought has been flawless. Some of the earlier stuff had inconsistent quality. It's been a lot of years since sk sockets have been knurled.

Laser3kw, can you provide part numbers that you are comparing? I am not seeing huge differences in price?

 

[Tennessee Cattleman]

Just bought some new SK 1/2" drive metric sockets, I'm very well pleased so far.

 

[6PTsocket]

I'm short on details, but I've heard that SnapOn has had some of the Williams production done overseas. While Ideal has committed to US production of SK by building a new state of the art manufacturing facility on the same property as the old facility.

This may play into the pricing structures.

SK was in Chicago from 1921until they went under. Ideal built the new plant in Sycamore,IL. The other posts cover the current situation with Williams.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[PJNJ]

You'll be fine with either Williams USA or SK. After looking at both of them, I purchased the SK 91848 1/4 set for $135.20 and the 94549 3/8 set for $164.82. The sets included both SAE and metric, shallow and deep along with ratchets, extension, and thumbwheel ratchets among other things. They were cheaper than comparable Williams USA sets. I guess prices have gone up on SK?

 

[laser3kw]

I guess prices have gone up on SK?

those prices are pretty close to what I've seen recently ($156 for 1/4" and $167 for the 3/8). Those are a good value for the whole set including ratchet and extensions.
The pricing is a little steeper if you price just the sockets as a set (no ratchets or extensions)

 

[67King]

My recollection when I ended up replacing all of my old Craftsman USA sockets with SK was taht they were the best value for US made stuff w/ lifetime warranty of all of them for me.......but I was looking for pretty comprehensive sets. I couldn't be happier with waht I got.

 

[Sam'sAutoParts]

I have seen a lot of USA Williams full polish tools in the last decade, especially wrenches with peeling chrome. It's a shame as I really like the shape.

All of the current ideal owned sk I have bought has been flawless. Some of the earlier stuff had inconsistent quality. It's been a lot of years since sk sockets have been knurled.

I think the reference to the knurling is on the extensions and ratchets. There has been some complaints. I recently got a brand new ratchet direct form SK, the knurling was fantastic. It's actually hard to explain but it grips your hand, but it doesn't bite your hand....hope that makes sense.

 

[PJNJ]

I think the reference to the knurling is on the extensions and ratchets. There has been some complaints. I recently got a brand new ratchet direct form SK, the knurling was fantastic. It's actually hard to explain but it grips your hand, but it doesn't bite your hand....hope that makes sense.

I have both pre-Ideal and Ideal era ratchets and thumbwheels. The pre-Ideal knurling has more of a "bite" (like you describe) and would probably be best if your hands have gotten really oily/greasy or with mechanics gloves. The newer knurling does help grip without the "bite". I'm starting to prefer it.

As a bonus, the Ideal ratchets seem to have less backdrag.

 

[pstemari]

... SK, the knurling was fantastic. It's actually hard to explain but it grips your hand, but it doesn't bite your hand....hope that makes sense.

Yes, SK has their knurling dialed in perfectly. It's grippy without being razor-sharp. Proto's knurling, at least on their torque wrenches, is sharp enough to draw blood.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Rarified27]

Yes, SK has their knurling dialed in perfectly. It's grippy without being razor-sharp. Proto's knurling, at least on their torque wrenches, is sharp enough to draw blood.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

^Yup. The SK knurling is smooth enough for fast work, but keeps the handle from flying out of your hand and I have a proto torque wrench I don't use without gloves because it's painful.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[oldtools]

I would get Wright or Proto.

 

[yamaha0343]

I have the Williams USA ratchets in 1/2 and 3/8, and can confirm they are great. Would buy them again.