Antique plumbing fitting 1-1/6 - 14????

[fourjeepin]

I’ve had an antique and very unusual clawfoot tub taking up space in my garage for 12+ years and am really struggling with the fittings.

It appears to be 14 tpi with an outside diameter of 1.39”. This is close, but will not fit a 1” NPT which is 1.315” OD, not to mention lower tpi.

Any ideas or suggestions would be great. My goal is to replace this valve with an adapter and a modern valve. I don’t want to just switch to a modern rim mount or freestanding valves and fill as the current setup has the fill in the middle of the tub.

Here’s a few pictures.

 

[rust in the eye]

British Standard??

How To Identify British Pipe Threads - V-Flow Solutions

How to identify British Standard Pipe Threads are some of the most popular foreign threads in the world today. Find out how to measure the size of British pipe threads.

v-flowsolutions.co.uk

 

[The Cobbler]

I'm not understanding, you want to replace the valves and keep the upper knobs etc as they are?
why does the thread matter on the existing valve? sorry. I must be missing something

 

[fourjeepin]

I'm not understanding, you want to replace the valves and keep the upper knobs etc as they are?
why does the thread matter on the existing valve? sorry. I must be missing something

Yes, I want to replace the current valves and keep the handles where they are. The valves are incredibly expensive to have rebuilt and even if I did pay this, I would still have to have an adapter fitting for attaching a supply line to the old valve.

Maybe some more pics would help with why I think this is the right approach - here's where the water goes into the tub


And a pic of the valves and how they surround the standing waste. This setup is call a bi-transit. The story that came with the tub was that it was from the early 1900s and was in the honeymoon suite of a downtown Atlanta hotel until 1948. I bought it from a crazy antique collector that was "furnishing" a 1980s house with a bunch of great antique stuff. He was actually slowly destroying the house and walked away from it during the housing crisis

 

[The Cobbler]

Thanks, makes more sense now.
being that it is brass you can adapt easier since you can solder pieces . I would probably try using a Moen 2 handle kitchen faucet if it was me. Too bad you're not closer, I would donate a faucet & some time to help you with that . It would be a fun project

 

[larry_g]

I believe that the threads your looking at are straight threads and part of a compression fitting.



I assume that you are talking about the threads just below the valve label or are you talking about the female threads under the square nut? Either way neither of these is pipe thread.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[The Cobbler]

he's talking about the threads on the very bottom. and I agree with your assessment

 

[fourjeepin]

he's talking about the threads on the very bottom. and I agree with your assessment

Yes, the threads at the bottom. That is where the supply attaches. But also where the valve attaches to the filler. These threads are the same unusual size.

 

[KnurledNut]

1-3/8"-14 UNS would be my guess.
That doesn't appear to be tapered so that rules out national pipe thread.

 

[fourjeepin]

Thanks, makes more sense now.
being that it is brass you can adapt easier since you can solder pieces . I would probably try using a Moen 2 handle kitchen faucet if it was me. Too bad you're not closer, I would donate a faucet & some time to help you with that . It would be a fun project

Thanks for the offer! I agree that it will be a fun project and I am beyond ready to get it out of my garage.

If no one comes up with a better solution, I might cut the threads off the original valves, drill, then solder in a female 3/4" NPT that the new valves could thread into.

I have also considered a faucet or some type of sprayer instead of using the current inlet, but need input from Mrs. Fourjeepin.

 

[fourjeepin]

1-3/8-14 UNS would be my guess.
That doesn't appear to be tapered so that rules out national pipe thread.

Hmm, that seems like a match... Dies are not inexpensive and I'm not finding much at the moment that could be used as a plug or reducing fitting.
Thanks for the suggestion and I'll keep digging.

 

[The Cobbler]

I'm wondering if a water meter coupling would be the same?

 

[LopezBart]

These are basically valve w/ a union connection; they're very similar to radiator valves which have unions. See https://www.supplyhouse.com/Matco-N...emale-Union-x-FIP-Steam-Angle-Convector-Valve

 

[RTM]

Maybe check vintage supply houses to see if they have donor material you can upgrade?

Here is what I know there may be able to mail you something

hippo hardware

Hippo Hardware & Trading Company

We specialize in antique and reproduction lighting, hardware, architecture, and plumbing. We are recycling the past to make a more livable future.

www.hippohardware.com

 

[dscheidt]

There's no reason a union needs to have threads that match anything but the other side of the union, as it is a matched assembly, and not ever going to be threaded to something else. So it's pretty common to find things like this, where the size is determined by being how ever big it needs to be to do the job, maybe pushed up to the nearest nominal size, and the coupling nut is made to match.

 

[fourjeepin]

Maybe check vintage supply houses to see if they have donor material you can upgrade?

Here is what I know there may be able to mail you something

hippo hardware

Hippo Hardware & Trading Company

We specialize in antique and reproduction lighting, hardware, architecture, and plumbing. We are recycling the past to make a more livable future.

www.hippohardware.com

I've talked to a few places and done a ton of online searches. What I have found is the existing hardware is rare and incredibly expensive. I did find a pic that appears to be the same as my tub, just in better condition and with all of the pieces

 

[zimman]

You need one of these. When you walk into a hardware store with this in your hand, people will move out of your way. Because Professional. LOL
We have a "restore" place here that collects or is donated thousands of parts, pieces of houses. Some call it "habitat for humanity". They have lots of older fixtures at mine. You won't find an adapter for that I don't think. Just too much old in that one. Can you imagine the cost to make it and then to inventory it? Holy molly.
Zim

 

[KnurledNut]

Hmm, that seems like a match... Dies are not inexpensive and I'm not finding much at the moment that could be used as a plug or reducing fitting.
Thanks for the suggestion and I'll keep digging.

A good machinist could make an adaptor and cut those threads with a lathe.
Might be worth posting this on Practical Machinist forum for advice.

 

[yatg]

My goal is to replace this valve with an adapter and a modern valve.

Do you plan on use the original valve turning hardware, which is a mickey-mouse linkage to the actual valves, and the left one looks tweaked,
or are you OK with using modern valve handles up top?

If the former, look into linking to a standard 3/4 gate valve.

If the latter, something like this (roman tub valve set) with separate valves, but plumb the valves to the fill port instead of a spout.



Either way, you should focus on adapting the fill port to something standard, then you can tee into it with hot and cold lines from the new valves. The fill port looks to be a separate piece that connects to the mixing crossover on the back. Then you can get rid of (or sell off) most of the old valve hardware.

 

[Beerhippie]

Do you plan on use the original valve turning hardware, which is a mickey-mouse linkage to the actual valves, and the left one looks tweaked,
or are you OK with using modern valve handles up top?

If the former, look into linking to a standard 3/4 gate valve.

If the latter, something like this (roman tub valve set) with separate valves, but plumb the valves to the fill port instead of a spout.



Either way, you should focus on adapting the fill port to something standard, then you can tee into it with hot and cold lines from the new valves. The fill port looks to be a separate piece that connects to the mixing crossover on the back. Then you can get rid of (or sell off) most of the old valve hardware.

That's my thinking. The cylindrical section just inside the union fitting would be prime for turning down and threading to MNPT--or boring/reaming out and threading to FNPT. You could also braze fittings to it--or even soft-solder.

I could get all retro-mod crazy on that thing!

 

[fourjeepin]

That's my thinking. The cylindrical section just inside the union fitting would be prime for turning down and threading to MNPT--or boring/reaming out and threading to FNPT. You could also braze fittings to it--or even soft-solder.

I could get all retro-mod crazy on that thing!

Yes! This is one thought I had as well. See image attached. Water supply line would have to come up then 90 over instead of attaching to the bottom, but that shouldn’t be a problem.

Problem with this approach is I asked my wife today and she wants to use a different spout instead of the existing one. So now I am thinking cut the fitting off the old valve and use it with a 3/4” not plug.

 

[fourjeepin]

And a picture of one of the valve handles. These did not come with the tub annd were not easy to find.

Also a picture of one of the lion feet.

 

[fourjeepin]

You need one of these. When you walk into a hardware store with this in your hand, people will move out of your way. Because Professional. LOL
We have a "restore" place here that collects or is donated thousands of parts, pieces of houses. Some call it "habitat for humanity". They have lots of older fixtures at mine. You won't find an adapter for that I don't think. Just too much old in that one. Can you imagine the cost to make it and then to inventory it? Holy molly.
Zim

I’ve never seen those but like them though they aren’t big enough to help solve this tub. Instead, I bought this for $10.

 

[zimman]

I’ve never seen those but like them though they aren’t big enough to help solve this tub. Instead, I bought this for $10.

Awesome. There are several types.
Zim

 

[Bert_]

That's a union and you are missing half of it. Probably the only way to find the parts is to find a whole other valve.

I like the idea above about brazing another copper or brass fitting to your valve. That's probably the quickest way to get this done, vs years of searching for parts.

 

[zimman]

I’ve never seen those but like them though they aren’t big enough to help solve this tub. Instead, I bought this for $10.

Perfect and they also come with some tap and die sets.
Zim