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Antique tool kit with custom leather bag. What is it?

Outlawmws

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You apparently didn't read the ad, and you apparently didn't read my post or the enhanced pic I posted.

The seller on Eprey specifically said he didn't know what is was for.

I later specifically said it could have been used in both trades. I have NOT said Jusbil is wrong...

The enhanced pic from Eprey implies typewriter IMO.
 
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Arne73

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I lugged several of those cases around when I was in the Coast Guard. They were in the shipboard repair lockers and designated as "repair electricians tool bag".
Ours had plastic cases and no solvent cans...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
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Lump

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Jusbil and others. I really enjoy finding out what interesting old tools are for. If it will help, I have more photos, and I can take more photos with close-up details, if that will help.

Don't get lost in the debate, guys. This is great information, and I am thoroughly enjoying the prospect of figuring out exactly what I have here.
 

JusBil

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In all honesty I'll preface this with the absolute fact NCR had some fantastic engineers back in the day of mechanical registers, and precision manufacturing capability to mass produce stamped and machined parts rivaled only by Singer sewing machines. I often wonder if the current population has any understanding that Ford couldn't have mass produced cars without the work Singer perfected before Ford came along.

That said, the mercy of time has allowed me to displace in my mind most of what NCR taught me with information I find valuable. I do still own one of the small machine bags, and several of the metal drawers.

You really need to begin by understanding the NCR top down business method. The people at the top never worked on a machine but they were absolutely sure they knew tyranny and humiliation were perfect management tools. They were also highly annoyed that it cost money to teach field people how a machine functioned.

Add in that most new machines arrived at the user's business only partly assembled, because a complete machine in ready to use condition was in reality fragile. The system of 200 levers, 200+ rods, and multiple racks and pinions was as sensitive as a watch in terms of fit and adjustment, and NOT designed to ride in a truck. Add in that different machines did not really function in anything resembling similarity of design. Corporate BELIEVED registers would be placed where they would live until eternity arrived, and never moved. Then factor in most machines were 100% mechanical. Cashiers had good finger strength to push buttons across 10 rows of numbers, or they didn't last.

In the best of all possible situations, a new supermarket with 10 registers, a setup man might come out to the District to do some of the setup and "train" men from the District on how to set the machine up and service it. Naturally, NCR expected service men to learn this on their own time, after all a fortune had been spent on the man teaching him for 6 months when he started with the company. If Corporate was in a generous mood, manuals for the new machine might have been sent tot he District a month ahead of arrival, so men could study them, on their own time. You had a good job, and you were lucky to be a NCR man was often heard coming from the manager's mouth, AND you had a company car.

On the good side, the test people in manufacturing did beat hell out of some new machines, and had some idea where failures were likely to happen. They even invented field tools, probably based on assembly tools for that model, and sent them to District offices for new models. Some models had a model specific tool kit, 1 per district, sitting in the office, inventoried to the last tool.

The people in manufacturing didn't consider wear, NCR machines were made of the finest material and didn't wear, according to manufacturing. Besides, if the field man was doing his job, lubrication prevented wear. I should mention many of the levers were made of stamped sheet metal with bearings welded to the sheet metal and bent "Perfectly" according to the test fixture in manufacturing.

Now, factor in that every lever, rod, rack and gear in that machine must function and register perfectly 100% of the time a thousand or more times a day. Also factor in that the 2 rows of keys for pennies got 1000 times the use and wear the $10 keys got in an average store. That never occurred to Corporate.
Also add in that the factory setup man had been in Rochester to set up A&P store #**** in 1959, and trained Rochester men how to do it, so Rochester could and would set up all new stores that used the same registers or registers following in that model group without ever again communicating with manufacturing or setup. The people who designed the upgrade could think it up, you should be able to understand it, and don't mention that you only touch that model every few years. You were lucky enough to be hired by NCR, the company has faith in you.

Now, go park that green car 5 rows out from the store, don't forget to load the parts bag for the 26 drawer machine before you leave the office, and stay on that machine until it's perfect, and keep your coat on while you work on it. Don's Burgers is a very high volume business and we don't want anyone to think NCR people aren't professionals. It doesn't matter all 3 machines at Dons back up to the grills and live in a grease laden atmosphere they were never designed for.

Hell yes I can do it, while hanging by my toes keeping my suitcoat perfectly positioned as 20 countermen sling burgers & frys past me. I'll even hold my toolbag in my mouth because there is no place to sit it down. An hour later I'm standing at the pay phone explaining to the District Manager that the part bag doesn't contain 29 new keys and keybrackets, that got wiped out when the new menu board was being installed, and we also might need to completely rebuild the face of the machine too. No, I have no idea how the petrified burger got in the flag assembly either. Maybe you should hop in your green car and ride out here to see the debris.

Sorry if you younger fellows don't understand terms like pay phone.
 

jakemac

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What !? :eyecrazy:
NCR didn't provide mediation rooms, massage chairs, latte machines, or yogurt bars ? :dunno:
How can anyone work in barbaric conditions like that ? :willy_nil
:lol_hitti
 

oldmantaylor

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In all honesty I'll preface this with the absolute fact NCR had some fantastic engineers back in the day of mechanical registers, and precision manufacturing capability to mass produce stamped and machined parts rivaled only by Singer sewing machines. I often wonder if the current population has any understanding that Ford couldn't have mass produced cars without the work Singer perfected before Ford came along. by NCR, the company has faith in you.

- - - - - - -


Sorry if you younger fellows don't understand terms like pay phone.

I worked at NCR for 34 years, and I continued to work at the plant for another 11 years. However, I was at the old Electronics Division in Hawthorne, and then in RB. We were insulated from the detailed management of Dayton. I have a lot of good memories of my work there.
 

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Lump

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Sorry to revive an OLD thread, but I did eventually sell this kit on eBay to a guy who seemed to really know all about it. Indeed, it was a cash register repair man's travel kit, widely used by NCR employees. I thought everyone might like to know for sure what it really was. Cheers!
 

y'sguy

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Great story and information from JusBil. He clearly identified it and knew it well. So many thing have changed in my lifetime, so quickly. And then gone before we know it. Thanks for the update or I never would have experienced the story.

:beer:
 

Rileysan

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Sorry to revive an OLD thread, but I did eventually sell this kit on eBay to a guy who seemed to really know all about it. Indeed, it was a cash register repair man's travel kit, widely used by NCR employees. I thought everyone might like to know for sure what it really was. Cheers!

After reading JusBil's posts, why would there be any question about it?!?

Until today, I never saw this thread and I have to say it was one of the most entertaining threads I've ever read. I would love to hear more of JusBil's stories!

Brian
 
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Lump

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After reading JusBil's posts, why would there be any question about it?!?

Until today, I never saw this thread and I have to say it was one of the most entertaining threads I've ever read. I would love to hear more of JusBil's stories!

Brian

You're right, Brian. Jusbil's info was very credible, and I knew back then that he knew what he was talking about. It was some time after that when I decided to sell the kit (I was afraid that leather case might start disintegrating, and hurt the value; plus, although it was so cool, I had no use for it).

Tonight I came back to Garage Journal after a long absence, and was perusing my old threads, and I felt like I should give everyone the follow-up story. JusBil and the eventual buyer both confirmed what this kit was for. Cheers!
 

Miss the Pontiacs

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Lump interesting find I would have thought more in the line of a relay adjust kit. I noticed Jusbil is banned. Odd he only had 4 entries and the were all in this thread. WTH
 

Outlawmws

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Normally it's activity in Free parking that bites; things are said that cross the line...

I spend very little time in FP...
 

Private Lugnutz

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Lump said:
Tonight I came back to Garage Journal after a long absence, and was perusing my old threads
Too long! Nice to see you again, Lump. And thanks for the update.

I was afraid that leather case might start disintegrating
A valid concern. You may recall the very similar Knickerbocker Case Company traveling tool case I found a few months after you found yours. (I don't recall if you ever identified yours as a Knickerbocker or not, but it was in much better condition than mine, which was used very hard!) What mine was used for was a little harder to determine from the contents but I settled on early copy machine repairman. (Not as early or as primitive as a fin de siècle Cyclograph, but there were several tools marked Gestetner inside it!) Link here for further reading and viewing.

I noticed Jusbil is banned. Odd he only had 4 entries and the were all in this thread. WTH
A complaint from a former NCR board member might be a good bet. :lol:
The people at the top never worked on a machine but they were absolutely sure they knew tyranny and humiliation were perfect management tools.
Or the infamous district manager in the equally infamous green Ford Vega! :lol:

Normally it's activity in Free parking that bites; things are said that cross the line...
I spend very little time in FP...
I tell myself over and over again not to venture up there and every single time I do it reminds me why I tell myself over and over again not to venture up there.
 

Provincial

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Too long! Nice to see you again, Lump. And thanks for the update.

Or the infamous district manager in the equally infamous green Ford Vega! :lol:

The District Managers would all have been assigned green Chevrolet Bel-Air's to show that they were superior to the tech's green Nova's. :lol_hitti
 
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Lump

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Lump interesting find I would have thought more in the line of a relay adjust kit. I noticed Jusbil is banned. Odd he only had 4 entries and the were all in this thread. WTH[/QUOTE
]

Miss the Pontiacs --
I noticed some mildly angry tones in Jusbil's otherwise-wonderful replies. It is possible that he made a post or two elsewhere which might have been..."angrier," or etc.

As a mod myself, I can tell you that sometimes a mod will give someone a warning and/or a temporary 3-day "vacation" from Garage Journal. And, sometimes an angry person will respond back to that vacation or warning with some very unacceptable stuff (I have NO idea is that is what happened in this case, but it sometimes does, and then other members don't know why that poster was banned).

If the mod who is dealing with a problem ends up making a "hard" ban on that poster, then the angry messages will be gone forever, so that even other mods cannot see them. Other, more acceptable comments will often remain.

Again, I have NO idea what happened in this poster's case. Just trying to explain what sometimes happens, and why other posters cannot tell what happened.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Bumping Lump's early National Cash Register (NCR) repairman case thread to post these more more modern vintage attache style N.C.R. toolcases I ran into at a flea market this morning, just for comparison/context - and for an excuse to bump a cool old thread.
 

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Repair guy

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This is one of the coolest, most uncommon antique tool kits I have ever found. It is obviously made for a specific set of jobs, and has lots of unique tools inside. The best thing about it is the really cool old leather "bag" with custom features. It is in great shape, with no rips, tears, or damage anywhere. It looks really old to me. What do you think?

DSCN6573_zpseallwrud.jpg

See that flap on the end of the "bag?"

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The flap opens up to allow custom made tool trays to slide out. Cool, huh? ;)

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Inside the main lid of this "bag" are custom made, custom-fitted cans, presumably for holding chemicals like oils and solvents.

DSCN6579_zpswod6tqa6.jpg

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Those slide-out tool trays were loaded with interesting and unique looking tools.

DSCN6581_zpsicq8zy8h.jpg

DSCN6583_zpsgbacqkme.jpg

DSCN6582_zpsseeyfhav.jpg

Oops. Gotta shut down computer for a few minutes. I have lots more photos of the cool stuff from this old kit. I'll post again later this evening. Cheers! :rocker:
Not sure about all those tools but the one I have is for a Gesterner offset repair man
It has various slots for holding special tools Not typewriter or adding machine best guess is cash register
See picture attached
 

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Private Lugnutz

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Not sure about all those tools but the one I have is for a Gesterner offset repair man
I have one made by Knickerbocker with the side drawers that had several "Gestetner" and "Made in England" marked tools in it. I created a separate thread so as not to piggyback on Lump's, linked here...

 

nadogail

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The special pliers for aligning (bending) push rods and type bars are a "Tell" that a very high degree of precision mechanics are involved.
 

TaiTheGuy

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Great thread! @JusBil has been Instrumental in my research of my own NCR field tech handtools bag.
He mentioned there was always one other bag of tools in the car. I either have that other bag, or I have the top half of tools, OP's bag is missing, as mine is missing the 3 bottom drawers. I'm guessing the former, as mine has no slot for solvents.
Got it from a friend about 3 years ago (for... 100 bucks maybe? Idk) and am finally getting around to photographing and selling it. No clue what it's worth. Will probably post for a high price, and lower the price a couple times a month until it sells. My standard operating procedure for oddball items.
Info was VERY hard to find, as the K was cutoff on the "Nickerbucker" stamps on my bag (not - bOcker, with an O).
Figured I'd show and tell... For science ☝️😌
More pics here:
 

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KFBR392

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Great thread! @JusBil has been Instrumental in my research of my own NCR field tech handtools bag.
He mentioned there was always one other bag of tools in the car. I either have that other bag, or I have the top half of tools, OP's bag is missing, as mine is missing the 3 bottom drawers. I'm guessing the former, as mine has no slot for solvents.
Got it from a friend about 3 years ago (for... 100 bucks maybe? Idk) and am finally getting around to photographing and selling it. No clue what it's worth. Will probably post for a high price, and lower the price a couple times a month until it sells. My standard operating procedure for oddball items.
Info was VERY hard to find, as the K was cutoff on the "Nickerbucker" stamps on my bag (not - bOcker, with an O).
Figured I'd show and tell... For science ☝️😌
More pics here:
What’s your asking price?
 

Private Lugnutz

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...the K was cutoff on the "Nickerbucker" stamps on my bag (not - bOcker, with an O).
On every case I have seen, including mine, linked here, the "O" is not quite closed at the top, but the name of the company that made these traveling repairman cases was without question the KNICKERBOCKER Case Company, with an "O".
 

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TaiTheGuy

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On every case I have seen, including mine, linked here, the "O" is not quite closed at the top, but the name of the company that made these traveling repairman cases was without question the KNICKERBOCKER Case Company, with an "O".
🤔Interesting. Have precisely 0 minutes available rn to address/look into this, or answer or ask my own questions. But i shall return
 

Private Lugnutz

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Have precisely 0 minutes available rn to address/look into this, or answer or ask my own questions.
Not much to look into or question. The name and the company's history is well documented.
But i shall return
Fair warning that there are NO SALES ALLOWED up here on the forums, and no advertising for eBay or other sales, either.
 

four.cycle

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^ When I sent all the information to "Made in Chicago" yesterday, I inadvertently typed it out as "KNICKERBOXES".

If you run a search on the web - particularly on ebay - you'll find all manner of "Knickerbocker" cases - they also built hard-sided cases used by television repairmen and all sorts of "salesman sample" cases (like the one I used to lug around.)

Knickerbocker / Knickerbocker Case Co., Fulton & Clinton St., Chicago, IL 60647 / est. 1900 / tool storage systems / patent 1947718 Feb 20 1934 Harry H. Labadie and Burton B. Beers / TM 84781 Jan 2 1912 first use Feb 1 1901 Knickerbocker / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...it-with-custom-leather-bag-what-is-it.360756/ /

In one of the many ebay listings, I found a photo of one of their cases with a tag affixed to it which had the zip code 60647 printed on it, so we know they were in business at least until 1964. I have not been able to find much more information on the company.
 

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kyrbz

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Perhaps a little off topic, but the local news did a story about a kid in college who has been obsessed with typewriters from an early age. He started a typewriter repair business and seems to do a fair amount of business. I think there is a segment of the millennial/gen-z generation who are rediscovering typewriters and they're becoming slightly trendy


 

four.cycle

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a kid in college who has been obsessed with typewriters from an early age.
My father and his older brother rented the basement from a woman in south Omaha. My uncle would have been about 16, my father about 12 at the time.
Uncle met a woman who had a typewriter that wasn't working properly. He told her "Oh, I can fix that."
He didn't mention to her that he'd never had his hands on one, let alone work on one.
He took it home to their basement and he and my father dismantled it, put it all back together, and got it working again.
That was the start of "Kirk Typewriter Company" - I think they were on South M Street - in Omaha.
Uncle Lacy put a whole mess of kids through college fixing typewriters and office machines.
 
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