Anvil owners help please!

[Black Frog]

I've been doing historical research on anvils for a few years now, an effort to keep going where the book "Anvils In America" left off. With the internet, there is now so much more possible with photos and sharing of information than what Mr. Postman had when doing his research. Besides uncovering lots of historical information on the companies themselves, I've been keeping a record of Trenton and Arm & Hammer anvils for their serial numbers versus their styles of logo stamps.

Both companies went through multiple versions of their logo stamps on the side of the anvil during their manufacturing history. By keeping track of SN's vs logo styles, we may be able to shed some more light on the history of their manufacturing. I've got lots of good data already but of course there's gaps in the SN's that I'm looking to fill in.

If you would like to add your information to the efforts of revealing more Trenton and Arm & Hammer anvil history, please take a closeup picture of the side logo stamp and of the serial number on the front foot under the horn. They can be faint and hard to make out at times, a wire brush might help with visibility. You can post it here or send it right to me if you like and I’ll add it to the list. Thank you in advance!

 

[Black Frog]

Forgot to add... I believe I'm up to 8 different Trenton logo styles, and 6 (possibly 7) different styles for Arm & Hammer anvils. More than I thought when I started keeping track!

 

[carcajou]

Black Frog , i picked up an anvil with no visible markings that appears to be a PW. who would you recommend i contact to help id it?

 

[Black Frog]

Post some pics right here if you like.
Flats on the feet are typical of PW anvils unless it is an early one.

 

[carcajou]

Here are the dimensions. Base width 12 1/4", base length 13 1/4", length 32", top width 5", top flat length 19 1/2". Cutting table 4 1/2" x 2 1/2". Height 14 inches. front base hole 5/8 x 1, 1 1/4" hole in waist front and a 1" hole in waist rear. 1 1/4 hardi hole.

Now before you all laugh at the paint job ( which ended up looking like a cheap bowling trophy) I plan on sandblasting this anvil later this week so it looked like a good test for a new paint color i was interested in. No Tremclad metallic bronze paint in my future now. lol

Anyway i think it weighs somewhere in the 325lb range, and i would like to know if it is indeed a Peter Wright, and approx how old it is. Before you all ask, i paid $450 for it.

 

[Black Frog]

Sure looks like a PW, 99% probable. There were at one time identifying stampings on the side with the horn pointed to the right. Any chance of getting a good close-up pic of just the area in red? I can see some markings there but not good enough to make them out.

 

[carcajou]

I looked it over very carefully, no identifying marks left to be found. Almost like someone went out of their way on that side to remove them.

 

[Black Frog]

Looks like I can make out some, I've seen a lot of PW anvils. Once you know their stamp patterns, it doesn't take much. You may be right, but can't hurt to take a close up? Just trying to help.

 

[carcajou]

I forgot i had this one, best i can do till i get the paint off. Hopefully the sandblasting will make it better not worse. Your advice is much appreciated.

 

[Black Frog]

I wouldn't sand blast, wire wheel cup on an angle grinder gives better results. May take longer, but doesn't leave the anvil all matte-finish battle ship grey looking. I believe I can make out one of the weight stamps, a better more focused pic may show other stamps. The stone weight system used the numbers across the side.

 

[carcajou]

I will check on that in the morning, clean that area up a bit and take a few more pics. Do you think it would hurt anything to blast it being i'm planning on dyeing it black after?

 

[Black Frog]

This is probably the second weight number...

 

[Black Frog]

I don't like painted anvils myself, most like to see the metal surface that was forged. Sand blasting may wipe away very faint traces of stamp marks, but it's up to you.

 

[carcajou]

Hmm so the date codes may not be on a horizontal line, they may be on a curve like a happy face?

 

[Black Frog]

Those aren't date codes, they are the English stone weight system of marking the anvil's weight.

 

[carcajou]

My mistake, i meant to say weight not date.

 

[Black Frog]

I look at lots of anvils, when someone says there's no marks on the anvil to be found, (I hear it quite often) 85% of the time they are incorrect. Just gotta know what to look for, and where to look for it, depending on the anvil....

 

[carcajou]

Guess i better get wire wheeling in the morning, and take lots of pics. Thanks for now

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Trenton in a diamond shape

Bottom Left reads: 2 50
Bottom Right reads: A 165936

Does this mean it weighs 250 lbs? Or is this stone? It feels like 250 lbs.

DISCLAIMER: I painted the whole damn thing Rustoleum Oil Gloss Black because I use my other anvil inside the garage, so this one is just waiting for my next bigger shop. Until then, convo piece outside and painted to protect it.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

My other one.... I think it's a Trenton. I thought one day I saw a "Tr-" on it, but now I don't see it. The sides are totally beat to ****. Looks like it was stabbed a million times over the years. This whole anvil is actually beat to ****. Face is real bad. Grind marks, totally radiused corners, weld marks and splatter. But it has a special place in my shop. It is a user and I'm very proud of it. May have helped build the LA Aqueduct for all I know.

It's smaller than the one I just posted.

This ones really cool. The guy I got it from got it from the city of LA. It has LAFCD 8N2, which stands for LOS ANGELES FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT.

Bottom left reads: ?? 1 8
Bottom right reads: 181347 or 131347

It feels like 180 lbs? Or is that stone also?

 

[Black Frog]

Mohawk Dave, Perfect!! That was exactly what I was looking for, it reduced a serial number gap nicely. That is (from what I've seen up to now) the 5th style of logo stamp. Yours is the highest SN I've seen with that stamp so far, it is from the 1918 ballpark. THANK YOU! Yes, your other anvil is also a Trenton, around 1915. Much appreciated!

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Mohawk Dave, Perfect!! That was exactly what I was looking for, it reduced a serial number gap nicely. That is (from what I've seen up to now) the 5th style of logo stamp. Yours is the highest SN I've seen with that stamp so far, it is from the 1918 ballpark. THANK YOU! Yes, your other anvil is also a Trenton, around 1915. Much appreciated!

Right on.

So, the big one painted black is 1918

And the smaller one on the stand w/ hammers is 1915

Correct?

And how about the weights? Can you determine that? I don't have a HD Scale. Thanks,

 

[Black Frog]

Yes, correct. The weights for most Trentons were stamped on the foot opposite the SN. Very early ones had it stamped on the side. All Trentons were stamped in pounds, not English stone weight. No U.S. manufacturer ever used the stone weight system. The black one is marked 250 pounds, the other one I'm thinking is marked "178"? I have a database of different makes of anvils and their measurements. If you measure the overall length, face width, and height I can usually be darn close on weight estimation.

 

[carcajou]

A few more pics. after the paint fiasco that night i shot a coat of polyurethane gloss black on it and the copper flake come through. think i will leave it alone for now.













note top pic needs to be rotated right a 1/4 turn.

 

[Black Frog]

The glare from the paint makes it tough, but I can definitely make out the first two numbers of the stone weight. There may be another number to the right of these two, but I can't see in these pics. Outside in shaded daylight usually provides the best lighting for stuff like this. But yes, I'd be confident saying this a PW, the first two stone weight numbers sure seem to be 2 and 2, so without knowing the last stone weight number it would be between 280 and 308 pounds. Nice anvil!

 

[carcajou]

Off to the shop to check.....

 

[carcajou]

Clear as a bell now. I just had to view from below the line of sight in daylight. 2-3-6 The 6 just jumped out at me when viewed from an angle. What time period would you estimate it to be?

 

[Black Frog]

2-3-6 would be 314#. See? When you know what to look for, and where to look, you can find nuggets of information. ....and here you said there's no stamp info visible... Without seeing more stamp info, dating it is difficult. It isn't the earlier shape, so it could be from later 1800's to early 1900's.

 

[carcajou]

lol Blackfrog you set me straight, thanks for all your help. Goodluck on your quest for anvil info.