Anvil Repair?

[Rockable]

My parents have both now passed away and my siblings and I must disperse the estate. I get my pick of the few things I might want. One is an antique anvil that is pretty beat up but the horn is intact. The flat surface, which I would use the most is ****. I recently saw a picture of an anvil for sale and it looked like they had welded a piece of cold rolled flat bar to the flat face. Can anvils be restored? How do you do it? It's pretty obvious you would have to do a lot of preheating to weld a new surface on. Thanks for your input.

Here is an example.

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[shanny19]

It’s possible, but it’s work. You can find in depth tutorials, well maybe not tutorials, but examples/stories of others who have done it. Good intuition on the preheat. Cold rolled flat bar will NOT make you happy, on the other hand.
In a nutshell, one approach is:
Mill the existing face flat.
Get a piece of tool steel cut to the dimensions, and drilled/milled/broached for any hardie & pritchel holes to match. Maybe chamfer the top edges if desired.
Seriously preheat the anvil, not just with a torch, but oven style long term soak it up preheat.
Get good advice on picking an electrode, electrode choice might vary from cast base or forged base.
Stick weld.
Grind.

 

[The Cobbler]

could it be milled down to fix it up?

 

[Rockable]

could it be milled down to fix it up?

Possibly. I haven't seen it in a few years, so I don't know exactly what shape it's in. That would certainly be one option to consider.

 

[shanny19]

Whatever you do with it, cool that you’re keeping it around! My Grandpa’s anvil sold at estate auction in 1989. Believe it or not, a couple years ago I was able to locate it. Engaged in slow, patient negotiations with the guy who bought it. He’s too old to use it, he even suggested that it ought to come home to the family, but he’s juuuuust not ready to let it go………

 

[Firebrick43]

could it be milled down to fix it up?

Most anvils have a hardened steel plate and its going to take a really stout mill and really good carbide or ceramic cutting tools (insert tool body) to mill something in the mid 50's to 60 HRC that the plates are hardened to.

The plates are not very thick and the base is wrought iron that is pretty soft and unhardenable. I you want to weld a new plate on will require forge welding and then quenching and tempering. Not many people can do that size of forge weld anymore.

 

[i4ni]

Surface grinding may be necessary, probably too hard to mill.

 

[Firebrick43]

Surface grinding may be necessary, probably to hard to mill.

or maybe Wire EDM

 

[cvairwerks]

First thing to do is verify that it's good. If it doesn't pass the ring test, it's not worth trying to repair, and it's a set piece at that point.

 

[RTM]

I’ve heard from friends that the idea is to build up the anvil edges and face with a special kind of hard rod, then work it back to level and square. I’d ask in a blacksmithing group, but am told it’s not easy or cheap.

 

[TurnipTruck]

Peter Wright Repair

Here is a link to a local-to-me anvil rebuild with pictures and everything

 

[Walkers]

The first step is to identify the anvil.post some pics of it, the logo if it can be seen, and of the damage.

 

[Rockable]

It will be a couple of weeks before I am down there. I will take some pics then. Thanks.

 

[Farmer J.]

I've heard about people paying the cost and having old anvils milled flat, and believe that's the proper accepted way an old anvil is sometimes restored to achieve a flat top surface.
One of my Sons is a qualified Artist Blacksmith, and he works away happily on an old anvil I got for scrap value. The top of it was so worn it was sunken in the middle, and the edges had burrs hanging over them. I was shaped a bit like an old saddle.
Here's what I did:
-Attacked the top of it with an angle grinder and got it fairly flat..
-Used a piece of 3/4" hard steel from the scrap heap, originally a cutting plate from a paper printing press so it's hard stuff.
-Cut the hard plate to size with an ozy acetalyne torch, and cut holes in it for the hardy.
-Welded the plate to the top of the old anvil with my stick welder, 4mm mild steel rod at about 140amps all the way around.

It's been taking a beating for the last several years and not failed yet. It looks like an old farmer has rebuilt an anvil, but it works and it didn't cost much. The top is perfectly flat now, and anyway it's for blacksmithing not precision engineering.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

I've heard about people paying the cost and having old anvils milled flat, and believe that's the proper accepted way an old anvil is sometimes restored to achieve a flat top surface.
One of my Sons is a qualified Artist Blacksmith, and he works away happily on an old anvil I got for scrap value. The top of it was so worn it was sunken in the middle, and the edges had burrs hanging over them. I was shaped a bit like an old saddle.
Here's what I did:
-Attacked the top of it with an angle grinder and got it fairly flat..
-Used a piece of 3/4" hard steel from the scrap heap, originally a cutting plate from a paper printing press so it's hard stuff.
-Cut the hard plate to size with an ozy acetalyne torch, and cut holes in it for the hardy.
-Welded the plate to the top of the old anvil with my stick welder, 4mm mild steel rod at about 140amps all the way around.

It's been taking a beating for the last several years and not failed yet. It looks like an old farmer has rebuilt an anvil, but it works and it didn't cost much. The top is perfectly flat now, and anyway it's for blacksmithing not precision engineering.

I think that is a great idea. You can not hurt it any more than what it is. And just making it serviceable again. And low cost.

 

[Rockable]

Well, here is the anvil. It is a 100 pound Fisher. As you can see, it has led a rough life. What are the recommendations of the group? It definitely passes the rebound test. I mostly do sheet metal shaping and fabrication but would love to put it into usable condition.

 

[rsanter]

Yea those missing edges are the real,issue.
Most of the time I see the tops milled flat, yours is beyond that.

I have seen ones like yours repaired in a couple ways.
One guy used a specific welding rod and built the broken out areas up and then rough ground and then milled the top flat.
Another guy milled the top off, then he welded a piece of hard steel on top , I think it was a AR type steel that is impact rated/armor type steel. He beveled the top of the anvil and the bottom of the plate so he could get a good weld and then grind it flat so it would look like it was not messed with

 

[whateg01]

could it be milled down to fix it up?

If you get too deep, you'll lose the hard face. If I was going to do this I would hard face it to build it up then grind it smooth and FLAT.

Welding a plate on top might not fully transfer the hammering into the body and eventually could stretch the plate that's welded to it. Then you have a void that would probably ring to high heaven or at least definitely wouldn't transfer the hammering to the massive body.

 

[Farmer J.]

Yea those missing edges are the real,issue

Another guy milled the top off, then he welded a piece of hard steel on top , I think it was a AR type steel that is impact rated/armor type steel. He beveled the top of the anvil and the bottom of the plate so he could get a good weld and then grind it flat so it would look like it was not messed with

That's pretty much what I did, and it has worked well and lasted for years.
If the plate on top does ever get deformed or badly worn I will just cut it off and weld another hard one on there!

Remember, it's an anvil. A big heavy thing for hammering and bending hot metal against. It doesn't need to be ground to precision instrument specifications or flat to within a thousand of an inch, it's not a machinist's Surface Plate .

 

[Rockable]

Are there businesses that specialize in repairing these? How would I find one near NC? I hate to think what that would cost but there is sentimental value in this one since it was on my grandfather's farm. How do you determine date of manufacture?

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

That will be a difficult repair. Fisher used a cast iron body with about a 5/8" cast steel working surface welded to the base. I believe Fisher was the first Anvil company to successfully make an anvil that way. It is why Fisher anvils sound different when you hit them. You can see that the original top plate has delaminated and broken away on much of your anvil. You may have to remove even more to get back to where there is a solid bond between the two and attempt to build it up with a hard face deposit or make root passes with filler rod. Might have to experiment to find something compatible.

I have used a medium hardness rod, 55-60 rockwell hardness, such as MG 710 for filling torch marks and for much smaller repairs on a cast anvil. It isn't inexpensive. To have original utility of the anvil you really need a 100% bond to the cast base for success which is difficult to do welding a hard plate back on. Not an easy repair as you want it to stay hot so likely sittng the anvil in an open forge the whole time you are welding and grinding on it. I probably wouldn't attempt it as the cost will be high and the day long without guarantee of success. Ed.

 

[rsanter]

That will be a difficult repair. Fisher used a cast iron body with about a 5/8" cast steel working surface welded to the base. I believe Fisher was the first Anvil company to successfully make an anvil that way. It is why Fisher anvils sound different when you hit them. You can see that the original top plate has delaminated and broken away on much of your anvil. You may have to remove even more to get back to where there is a solid bond between the two and attempt to build it up with a hard face deposit or make root passes with filler rod. Might have to experiment to find something compatible.

I have used a medium hardness rod, 55-60 rockwell hardness, such as MG 710 for filling torch marks and for much smaller repairs on a cast anvil. It isn't inexpensive. To have original utility of the anvil you really need a 100% bond to the cast base for success which is difficult to do welding a hard plate back on. Not an easy repair as you want it to stay hot so likely sittng the anvil in an open forge the whole time you are welding and grinding on it. I probably wouldn't attempt it as the cost will be high and the day long without guarantee of success. Ed.

Looking at the pictures again I see what you mean. And yes it does seem like,it is delaminating.

I guess a plate on the top or yard art are the options

 

[i4ni]

Looks like yard art in all practicality. Sorry

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I'd agree rsanter. For the OP's stated purpose, mostly shaping sheet metal and light bending, a thick hard piece of plate welded at the edges like you, Farmer J, and others have mentioned would probably work fine. The thicker the better. I just wouldn't expect to do much forging on it. As an heirloom, it still has the heel intact for working, and certainly shows the effects of a lifetime of work by his family which has nostalgic value. Ed.

 

[35k0]

You can get them refaced, milled, whatever. I saw a guy recently had one resurfaced by the Amish for about $100

 

[Rockable]

After pondering this a while, I believe I will bring it home, take it to a machine shop I know and see if I can get them to face it off. Then I will find a hardened piece of flat bar and have someone who is more experienced at welding cast iron than me weld it on. I am not into blacksmithing. I do auto restoration, so my use will be light duty. For me, it's about preserving something from my Dad's farm that I can use.

 

[The_Geologist]

Here's a couple videos on anvil repair from Salvage Workshop, in case they would be of any use to you.

 

[Boogerman]

I would mill front half that's delaminated off to a flat surface with a square shoulder to the remaining piece. Weld back on a steel plate, but I would drill a few holes and plug weld the interior in addition to welding the outside. Might be very tricky with the cast body. The way I've seen it done is build a large fire around the anvil, and when it burns down to coals, add charcoal, and put a metal skirt around it to protect the person welding from the heat. Grind the surface clean and then weld on the plate. Fill between the new plate and the old one, and touch up the edges on the old one by laying beads there sufficient to mill back off to square. When the welding is complete, use a large torch (or several) to bring the top up to dull orange red. Then, pull it off the fire, and flip it upside down onto a substantial steel plate to quench the steel top, while not cooling the cast base as quickly. Let it cool away from the red, and then flip it back over and hammer on the welds and plate repeatedly as it cools to help relieve the stresses as it cools. That's the way I saw old blacksmiths/welders do cast iron repairs 60 years ago. Then, grind the weld buildup flat and square.

 

[Whitworth]

If OP is looking for a user anvil rather than a piece of yard art, I'd sell it. Then whatever $$ put towards finding an anvil in decent condition.

All the kings horses and all the kings men can't fix that mess.