Any advice on a scan tool purchase?

[joetech]

I apologize for creating a duplicate thread in advance. If there's another thread that covers what I am looking for please direct me to it.

I am considering the purchase of a scan tool for under $500. I need the best one I can get without paying $6,000 for a Snap-On Modis, and either current or future ABS bleed functionality.

I am considering the purchase of the autoenginuity for $249. Modules can be added on for $269 for Chevrolet, which would provide me with the ABS bleed functionality that I needed the other day and according to the website I could have had it within the hour.

All of that being said, we currently have a $100 code reader that isn't anything to speak of and we have a BlueDriver, connects to the smartphone which is great for reading codes and giving the customer a printout.

Is there ANYTHING else out there in scan tools that I am missing that would provide me the functionality that the Autoenginuity would do? What impressed me was another thread here on Garage Journal where the poster stated that they had these in school. [Less than 5 posts so I can't link, sorry. Thread #384673]

I am also impressed with the "modules" that can be added on within the hour. I have no problem spending $270 if I have a car sitting in front of me and I need to get something done- (can always get a $100 bonus from the boss for getting the car done!!!!) but I cannot afford to spend $550 right off the bat.

Our primary business is domestic makes- we had a Ford and Chevrolet dealer here in town that both closed within the last couple of years- and we get the occasional Toyota or Honda.

The other code readers that I have considered include Autel MaxiCheck Pro for $225 which states that it will cycle the ABS to bleed the brakes but in the Q&A states that it will NOT cycle the ABS to bleed brakes.

I found a review that references a $30 wireless adapter and using obdwiz which led me to Autoenginuity.

I also looked at this for $224- Millennium 90 Pro

Lastly, I also looked at the Foxwell 650 Pro for $259 or so.

Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Fedwrench]

I'm spoiled because we have factory laptop based scan tools at work. However, when there's an issue with any of them, our back up is an Autel.

Autels aren't perfect but, are pretty capable, easily updated, and won't break the bank. I think the 906 is their entry level tablet.

If you have a tough book or similar rugged laptop, autoenginuity will serve you well. It really depends on how deep your tire shop wants to dive into repair. Especially if you get into reprogramming.

Just remember that there is no perfect aftermarket scan tool. Each of them is a compromise when compared to the factory tool. Areas like abs & srs will always be lacking in aftermarket tools due to the proprietary information across brands.

Whatever tool you choose, please factor in the costs of future updates into your purchase decisions. Snap on is not only initially expensive to purchase but, it's not cheap to update either. Lastly, I have found over the years that OTC will introduce a scan tool, support it for a few years and then drop it favor of releasing a new different platform. This may be ok given how fast cars continue to change but, it irritates me.

 

[plinker]

I had bought a Launch Millennium 90 Pro a week or so ago, have not used it yet. I got it due to it having most of the functions I'd need for home It replaces an Innova tool I bought back in '11 and has a lot more features/functions by far.

At work there is an older Modis and a couple OTC's, evolve & genisys touch(?) I can use whenever I need to.

Autel seems popular. Matco (Launch) has pay as you go subscription with their maxme set up, may be worth looking into. It's around 1000$ though.

 

[joetech]

I'm spoiled because we have factory laptop based scan tools at work. However, when there's an issue with any of them, our back up is an Autel.

Autels aren't perfect but, are pretty capable, easily updated, and won't break the bank. I think the 906 is their entry level tablet.

If you have a tough book or similar rugged laptop, autoenginuity will serve you well. It really depends on how deep your tire shop wants to dive into repair. Especially if you get into reprogramming.

Just remember that there is no perfect aftermarket scan tool. Each of them is a compromise when compared to the factory tool. Areas like abs & srs will always be lacking in aftermarket tools due to the proprietary information across brands.

Whatever tool you choose, please factor in the costs of future updates into your purchase decisions. Snap on is not only initially expensive to purchase but, it's not cheap to update either. Lastly, I have found over the years that OTC will introduce a scan tool, support it for a few years and then drop it favor of releasing a new different platform. This may be ok given how fast cars continue to change but, it irritates me.

Thank you for your input!!!!!!!!!!

I actually own two Dell Latitude E6510 laptops, currently have one at home and one at the shop. Metal casing, extremely durable laptops, along with a third one that is a different model but same type of laptop, so no worries there.

I am very worried about buying a scan tool that will cost a bunch for future updates. I want one and done for the most part. I see an Autoenginuity on eBay that will do domestic and asian for $400 up until 2013 which would actually fill my needs perfectly. We don't do much work on cars less than 5 years old and it's still updatable. That seems like a pretty reasonable deal for what is currently a $1200 tool, other than the fact that it's one generation behind current hardware which I am not sure if it'd be a deal breaker. I'd do $200-250 on that but $400 seems a bit much.

I do appreciate the feedback on OTC. In my handyman work, I currently run all Milwaukee because they have had the same platform for years and years while DeWalt brings out a new battery style every six months that's not compatible with your old tools.

I have seen several Chevrolet pickup trucks in the shop for brake line replacements and we've had some issues bleeding them. Per some advice found here on Garage Journal- Yesterday we did one, disconnecting the battery, then took it out and activated the abs and it seemed like it was back to normal after that. Now I realize we probably should have bled it with the battery disconnected, then drive it to activate the abs and then bleed it again to get the last of the air out of the lines. So, that's why I said I specifically need a abs activation tool for chevrolet abs systems.

Thank you on your advice re the Autel 906. Right at this moment, that is totally out of our price range. I don't want to spend that kind of money for myself at the moment and the boss just doesn't have it with just buying the business 3 months ago and building up inventory.

 

[Tallpilot]

There is a guy on YouTube who uses Autoengenuity and it seems to crash constantly and the bi-directional controls rarely work. I know $1,000 is a lot of money but I would consider that the floor for a true professional level tool.

If you must get something soon I think this has the most capability for the lowest cost. Note that it is not supported by Launch USA but many people use it so I would suspect IATN or somewhere will have a robust forum on it.

http://m.x431tool.com/wholesale/lau...MI27-U8O3Z3wIVA4bICh0GZQ47EAQYAiABEgKjtvD_BwE

 

[joetech]

There is a guy on YouTube who uses Autoengenuity and it seems to crash constantly and the bi-directional controls rarely work. I know $1,000 is a lot of money but I would consider that the floor for a true professional level tool.

If you must get something soon I think this has the most capability for the lowest cost. Note that it is not supported by Launch USA but many people use it so I would suspect IATN or somewhere will have a robust forum on it.

Thank you for your input. I am finding that to be true as well, $1000 as a floor. I like the tab that was recommended a couple posts ago but at $1100 that's steep when I'm making $12.50 an hour.

I do have money saved up from elsewhere and I could afford it but I don't know if I can justify it when we aren't using it all that much- YET.

Is Autel a "pro" level brand? I've never heard of them before I started researching scan tools. That being said I don't know much about scan tools and I didn't pay real close attention to the ones we had in college in 2002. We were primarily working on cars from 1985-1995 at that point and those are light years behind current cars!

It's almost enough for me to throw my hands up in frustration and go back to handyman work... but I want the other fringe benefits such as working only a half mile from home and don't have to deal with the travel and other BS involved in handyman work. A 9-5 at the shop is real nice, just want to get into more mechanic work instead of tire work.

 

[matt_o_70]

My opinion - Any shop owner MUST provide at least ONE tool for his employees to use/share and he has to keep it updated as required - IF they want to do any work that requires scan tool. As you know todays cars this is more and more common. It is only going to increase so not having scan tools means you are not going to have much of a future as a business! Change a battery on many european cars now requires scan tool - to inform the ECU that new battery is in the car.

The business owner can work the cost into his business model and offset some of his expenses/taxes purchasing this equipment. Only the shop owner has the ability to do this. Saying to his employees he cant 'afford it' is bad way to run a business if he wants to grow. He needs to be more creative in how he approaches his business. Jobs that require scan tool need to pay for the tool. That is what estimating the cost of the job is all about.

Guys in the shop rarely are paid well enough to afford the annual updates to tool truck scan tools and have no way offset cost as business expense.

Most good techs who enjoy diagnostic work will own their own scan tool. Most will shop for a second hand $nap-On or similar for $600-$1500. These are the slightly older versions of the current tools and for example may only support cars to 2015-2016 or so. Typically you can NO LONGER buy upgrades for them any longer (snap-on) but that is why you are saving some money. Typically you can still service vast majority of cars coming in.

The top of line models like Modis and Verus are scan tools with Oscilliscope. Look for the tools with out scope built in for possible better value. You did mention the picoscope so you would have that aspect covered.

I have not used a pico but understand that it is / can be a better scope (model 4225) since the laptop allows you better control over viewing its data and some more advanced functions - IF you take the time to learn how to use it. Other thing to consider is you get what you pay for in a scope. I am not sure what the Pico 2000 is missing compared to the more expensive models, typically the scope bandwidth and number of channels gets better as you move up in price.

 

[jimindm]

Interesting thread. You make 12.50 an hour and want to buy a scan tool, because the shop owner can not afford it. I would ask what other equipment is the place lacking.

I find that today's automotive repair is sort of a puzzle. You need certain pieces and then you have to make them work together.

I think that all starts with information systems. Being that the vast majority are now subscription based, I suppose you could get by with manuals. Not sure how new even a set of actual repair printed manuals get to current vehicles. You can buy some that give you the basics, and can stay pretty current with that.

I am not sure of pico scope, and how it works for the user. There are some really nice scopes out there. One problem is unless you understand wiring, and scope pattern that you want to see and test, you will be lost.

I would look for an older snap on unit. Something that might have been upgraded to the last upgrade they offered. Get one that does have the scope as a part of it. One thing snap on does well on their scopes, is gives you what you need to see and how to hook it up and where the best place to hook it up on the vehicle.

I could not even guess how a shop could try to fix vehicles without something better than a code reader. The very basic of real scan tools will do your brake bleeding, and it will open up the shop to so much more repair abilities.

 

[Tallpilot]

Thank you for your input. I am finding that to be true as well, $1000 as a floor. I like the tab that was recommended a couple posts ago but at $1100 that's steep when I'm making $12.50 an hour.

I do have money saved up from elsewhere and I could afford it but I don't know if I can justify it when we aren't using it all that much- YET.

That being said... if I had the $1100 tablet and we got enough work into the shop that I stayed busy on mechanic work, my pay could go up substantially and it wouldn't be a problem after that point.

Is Autel a "pro" level brand? I've never heard of them before I started researching scan tools. That being said I don't know much about scan tools and I didn't pay real close attention to the ones we had in college in 2002. We were primarily working on cars from 1985-1995 at that point and those are light years behind current cars!

It's almost enough for me to throw my hands up in frustration and go back to handyman work... but I want the other fringe benefits such as working only a half mile from home and don't have to deal with the travel and other BS involved in handyman work. A 9-5 at the shop is real nice, just want to get into more mechanic work instead of tire work.

Snap-on, etc pay the manufacturers for the data the tools need to work. Autel got started by bootlegging and reverse engineering that data instead of paying for it. That allowed them to sell the tools much cheaper and to even do some things the manufacturers don't allow without a LSID like program keys.

Many thought they would eventually be sued out of existence but that never happened. Their tools do have less capability with newer cars. Eventually you will need J2534 passthrough and a manufacturer portal subscription for everything because of encrypted gateways. You have a few years to save for that though.

You have my sympathies about the economics. It is very difficult to estimate how much work you will be able to get with one of these tools and if the return on investment is worth it. A few years ago I would have said just make some money doing brakes and oil changes until you can afford the equipment. However now you need a bi-directional scan tool for a simple brake pad replacement on some vehicles.

Honestly with the skills involved the pay is abymsal and doubly so if you are expected to provide your own specialty tools. Try to talk the owner into buying the tool I linked above. It will at least handle your brake bleeding and EPB resets. It will do a lot more too but no aftermarket tool does it all.

Until he can afford more equipment he may want to find a remote technician that will come do the jobs he doesn't have the tools for yet. That way he can start getting the word out that the shop is capable of dealer level service. Once volume picks up enough to justify the expense then he can buy this stuff. But I agree with the above, at anything below the master tech $25/hour level this really should be a shop provided tool.

 

[joetech]

Interesting thread. You make 12.50 an hour and want to buy a scan tool, because the shop owner can not afford it. I would ask what other equipment is the place lacking.

I find that today's automotive repair is sort of a puzzle. You need certain pieces and then you have to make them work together.

Absolutely. Shop owner has 24 years of experience and lots of tools. Snap-On ball joint tool set, Cornwell mini impact, thousands of dollars worth of various tools that we use on a daily basis. We're just lacking a good scan tool IMHO for what it is worth.

I have been buying tools, toolbox etc. and as a rule if I have to walk to the other side of the shop 3x for something it's time for me to buy it if it's not too high priced and I wouldn't mind using it at home. So far it's been basic hand tools plus a topside creeper, underhood light, and power probe 4. I already have a multimeter.

Shop owner's current focus is on the tire side. He bought the business with very little inventory because previous owner ran it into the ground- even had no new or used tires in stock to speak of. We're in a small town with 3 fairly large businesses who use the shop all the time and all 3 businesses eventually refused to do business with the previous owner who owned the place for 2 years. Before that it had the same owner for around 40 years.

I think that all starts with information systems. Being that the vast majority are now subscription based, I suppose you could get by with manuals. Not sure how new even a set of actual repair printed manuals get to current vehicles. You can buy some that give you the basics, and can stay pretty current with that.

We do have a ShopKeyPro subscription. I haven't looked at it well enough to know if it's got the wiring diagrams that I need to get stuff done but for everything I've looked at so far it's been good.

I am not sure of pico scope, and how it works for the user. There are some really nice scopes out there. One problem is unless you understand wiring, and scope pattern that you want to see and test, you will be lost.

I own a 2004 Chevrolet Express 3500 cargo van that's sitting at the shop right now. It won't run right, has a stumble in it about every 15-30 seconds and at times it stumbles so bad that it dies. No power when driving up to 25mph (I haven't taken it out on the highway yet) as well. Initial investigation leads me to believe that the fuel pump or fuel pump ground is screwed up. One thing I was thinking I could use the scope for was to test the pump/ground under load.

I would look for an older snap on unit. Something that might have been upgraded to the last upgrade they offered. Get one that does have the scope as a part of it. One thing snap on does well on their scopes, is gives you what you need to see and how to hook it up and where the best place to hook it up on the vehicle.

I could not even guess how a shop could try to fix vehicles without something better than a code reader. The very basic of real scan tools will do your brake bleeding, and it will open up the shop to so much more repair abilities.

Thank you. That is what my end goal is- opening up the shop to repairing many more things than we can actually repair right now. As I've already mentioned- the ABS bleed was a problem for us- we also had a Dodge pickup in a few days ago for a bad headlight. It wasn't the headlight- it was the TIPM unit that was bad. Took me about 20 minutes longer than it should have to figure that out, and I didn't have a scanner that would clear the TIPM codes either. I believe that the boss just quoted him a new TIPM. If I thought I had the time I'd take the TIPM apart and repair the bad fuse/wire/whatever is wrong with it.

 

[joetech]

My opinion - Any shop owner MUST provide at least ONE tool for his employees to use/share and he has to keep it updated as required - IF they want to do any work that requires scan tool. As you know todays cars this is more and more common. It is only going to increase so not having scan tools means you are not going to have much of a future as a business! Change a battery on many european cars now requires scan tool - to inform the ECU that new battery is in the car.

The business owner can work the cost into his business model and offset some of his expenses/taxes purchasing this equipment. Only the shop owner has the ability to do this. Saying to his employees he cant 'afford it' is bad way to run a business if he wants to grow. He needs to be more creative in how he approaches his business. Jobs that require scan tool need to pay for the tool. That is what estimating the cost of the job is all about.

I do have the ability to offset the cost through personal taxes and/or my handyman business. That's not a factor in the decision. I don't consider it a "bad way to run a business". It's called impatience. I'm tired of dealing with these cars that are coming in on a daily basis and we don't even have the most basic scan tool to deal with them. Do I want to wait 3-6 months for the boss to buy a tool or do I want to buy a tool right now that I can keep and take where ever I want to go? I compare this to the chicken/egg concept. Can't have the chicken without the egg and can't have the egg without the chicken.

Guys in the shop rarely are paid well enough to afford the annual updates to tool truck scan tools and have no way offset cost as business expense.

Most good techs who enjoy diagnostic work will own their own scan tool. Most will shop for a second hand $nap-On or similar for $600-$1500. These are the slightly older versions of the current tools and for example may only support cars to 2015-2016 or so. Typically you can NO LONGER buy upgrades for them any longer (snap-on) but that is why you are saving some money. Typically you can still service vast majority of cars coming in.

The top of line models like Modis and Verus are scan tools with Oscilliscope. Look for the tools with out scope built in for possible better value. You did mention the picoscope so you would have that aspect covered.

I do enjoy diagnostic work and as I mentioned I did get a auto electric certificate with honors. If I have the time, the right tools and the wiring diagrams I find it very easy to diagnose problems. That being said I don't have much EXPERIENCE but I'm getting better as I go along. Thank you for the suggestion on the second hand snap on. If I found a good scan tool that would work up to 2013-2014 I'd be set for another 3-5 years before I had to upgrade again. All the cars we're working on have 100K+ and often 200K+ miles on them and are 10-15+ years old.

If I make a significant investment in a scan tool I will be making a significant agreement with the boss on compensation for the use of that tool. I have also purchased a carpet extractor for my personal use and need to discuss with the boss the potential for an interior detailing business. The shop is right next to a just-built brand new car wash so there's a market there. Closest other independent detailer that I know of is 60 miles away and we do have a bay with no lift that would be good for that.

I have not used a pico but understand that it is / can be a better scope (model 4225) since the laptop allows you better control over viewing its data and some more advanced functions - IF you take the time to learn how to use it. Other thing to consider is you get what you pay for in a scope. I am not sure what the Pico 2000 is missing compared to the more expensive models, typically the scope bandwidth and number of channels gets better as you move up in price.

Thank you... I need to research the pico more and see if that's something I need at the moment.

 

[Yarpo]

We have the Matco Maximus 2.0 at work as well as an autologic, I really like the Matco one, and I'm not generally a fan of matco Pretty slick. That said, I wouldn't buy one on your 12.50 an hour wage, at most offer to split the costs 50/50 in hopes he lets you take it if you leave.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matco-Maxi...h=item1cc3ba0455:g:mzUAAOSwtKlb-B4e:rk:2:pf:0

 

[joetech]

Snap-on, etc pay the manufacturers for the data the tools need to work. Autel got started by bootlegging and reverse engineering that data instead of paying for it. That allowed them to sell the tools much cheaper and to even do some things the manufacturers don't allow without a LSID like program keys.

Many thought they would eventually be sued out of existence but that never happened. Their tools do have less capability with newer cars. Eventually you will need J2534 passthrough and a manufacturer portal subscription for everything because of encrypted gateways. You have a few years to save for that though.

Aha. That is how they did it. That helps.

You have my sympathies about the economics. It is very difficult to estimate how much work you will be able to get with one of these tools and if the return on investment is worth it. A few years ago I would have said just make some money doing brakes and oil changes until you can afford the equipment. However now you need a bi-directional scan tool for a simple brake pad replacement on some vehicles.

I know, that is absolutely ridiculous. Then again- how many people are actually getting into the auto repair business anymore? All the old guys are dying off and kids aren't really stepping up to replace them. I like working 1/2 mile from home and I really like my boss.

Honestly with the skills involved the pay is abymsal and doubly so if you are expected to provide your own specialty tools. Try to talk the owner into buying the tool I linked above. It will at least handle your brake bleeding and EPB resets. It will do a lot more too but no aftermarket tool does it all.

Until he can afford more equipment he may want to find a remote technician that will come do the jobs he doesn't have the tools for yet. That way he can start getting the word out that the shop is capable of dealer level service. Once volume picks up enough to justify the expense then he can buy this stuff. But I agree with the above, at anything below the master tech $25/hour level this really should be a shop provided tool.

Literally the only truly "specialty" tool I am looking at providing is a scan tool. And I wouldn't mind having one at home for my own cars but it's a pretty steep investment.

Everything else is for my own comfort or I wouldn't mind having at home. Boss never saw a topside creeper until I got one and now he understands why I bought it. I got tired of crawling around on top of motors in my first couple days. ProGear Topside Creeper really makes spark plug and wire replacements go much faster and easier on taller vehicles.

Don't even know if we have a remote tech who'd come out here. This is a small town of 1200 that's 60 miles away from any big city. We do have a couple Chevy and Ford dealers within 20 miles or so though.

 

[joetech]

We have the Matco Maximus 2.0 at work as well as an autologic, I really like the Matco one, and I'm not generally a fan of matco Pretty slick. That said, I wouldn't buy one on your 12.50 an hour wage, at most offer to split the costs 50/50 in hopes he lets you take it if you leave.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matco-Maxi...h=item1cc3ba0455:g:mzUAAOSwtKlb-B4e:rk:2:pf:0

Thank you very much for the suggestion, I'll have to check into that. I honestly don't even know where to start looking for scan tools, thus why I started this thread. I don't want to buy a $250 scan tool and find out it's a glorified code reader, we already have tools to do that.

 

[joetech]

There is a guy on YouTube who uses Autoengenuity and it seems to crash constantly and the bi-directional controls rarely work. I know $1,000 is a lot of money but I would consider that the floor for a true professional level tool.

If you must get something soon I think this has the most capability for the lowest cost. Note that it is not supported by Launch USA but many people use it so I would suspect IATN or somewhere will have a robust forum on it.

http://m.x431tool.com/wholesale/lau...MI27-U8O3Z3wIVA4bICh0GZQ47EAQYAiABEgKjtvD_BwE

Autoengenuity is now off my list. Thank you for mentioning that.

I really don't want what appears to be a Chinese turd.... but I do appreciate the suggestion, will look into it more.

A good used unit for $1000 like that Matco that was recently suggested looks interesting but I'm not done researching that yet either.

 

[Tallpilot]

Those two are actual scan tools and not glorified code readers. The MaxiCheck is definitely a glorified code reader. I know of nothing under $500 that isn’t.

 

[plinker]

I played with the Millennium pro 90 a while ago, It does have auto bleed and some mode 6 data on my '02 F250, I would say the newer the vehicle the more you can do with it.

It seems to be a decent tool so far, but I want to try it out on some newer stuff to see what it'll do. I dont think I'd rely on it for a main shop tool. Seems decent for a DIY'er or hobbyist without breaking the bank.

 

[Tallpilot]

Autoengenuity is now off my list. Thank you for mentioning that.

I really don't want what appears to be a Chinese turd.... but I do appreciate the suggestion, will look into it more.

A good used unit for $1000 like that Matco that was recently suggested looks interesting but I'm not done researching that yet either.

I respect that and the only Autel I have is for TPMS. I bought a used Snap-on for $1,000 a few years ago. The updates are a little under $500 every 6 months. You can skip them though and catch back up for $750 or so. That’s the entry level Ethos without the troubleshooter. The Solus updates are more expensive for that database. The scope equipped ones (Modis, Verus) are even more expensive because of the guided component test database.

 

[joetech]

I respect that and the only Autel I have is for TPMS. I bought a used Snap-on for $1,000 a few years ago. The updates are a little under $500 every 6 months. You can skip them though and catch back up for $750 or so. That’s the entry level Ethos without the troubleshooter. The Solus updates are more expensive for that database. The scope equipped ones (Modis, Verus) are even more expensive because of the guided component test database.

Thank you, good to know about Snap-On. Something up to 2013 that doesn't need an annual subscription to keep working is pretty important.

I'm not throwing money at this problem every 6 months or even every year. My personal vehicles are always 10-12 years old so I'd be good for another 5 years myself if I had an older scan tool.

Just looked at Autel here:

https://www.autelonline.com/autel-m...mming-system-is-2-years-free-update_p108.html

And while I would consider spending the money on that, what really annoys me is the $905 a year annual subscription. That's B.S. IMHO. I'd rather buy a used Matco that was mentioned earlier for $1000 and leave it alone. I'm assuming that updates are available if I wanted to, still researching it.

Thank you to other posters for mentioning lower-end brand name scan tools. The boss mentioned Modis and that's clearly still too expensive.

 

[joetech]

I played with the Millennium pro 90 a while ago, It does have auto bleed and some mode 6 data on my '02 F250, I would say the newer the vehicle the more you can do with it.

It seems to be a decent tool so far, but I want to try it out on some newer stuff to see what it'll do. I dont think I'd rely on it for a main shop tool. Seems decent for a DIY'er or hobbyist without breaking the bank.

You know honestly, I could probably get by with that but then just on Thursday we got a Cadillac? SUV in that had a funny noise in the front end. Sounded like the wheel was about to fall off.

Many front end parts had already been freshly replaced, ball joints, trailing arms, and other parts but the struts were still original. The boss got me to shake the car while he traced the noise and it was failing air ride struts. I believe it threw a code for the air suspension I think but it didn't tell us which one. I wondered if we would have found the problem faster if we had the right scan tool.

 

[Yarpo]

And while I would consider spending the money on that, what really annoys me is the $905 a year annual subscription. That's B.S. IMHO. I'd rather buy a used Matco that was mentioned earlier for $1000 and leave it alone. I'm assuming that updates are available if I wanted to, still researching it.

I'm not sure what that Matco one costs to update, my boss mentioned it but since i'm not paying I didn't pay much attention to the price. It didn't seem to obnoxious or I'd have remembered tho...I think

 

[plinker]

You know honestly, I could probably get by with that but then just on Thursday we got a Cadillac? SUV in that had a funny noise in the front end. Sounded like the wheel was about to fall off.

Many front end parts had already been freshly replaced, ball joints, trailing arms, and other parts but the struts were still original. The boss got me to shake the car while he traced the noise and it was failing air ride struts. I believe it threw a code for the air suspension I think but it didn't tell us which one. I wondered if we would have found the problem faster if we had the right scan tool.

I know with the older (coverage up to late '16) OTC tool the boss has it wont read VW codes, comes up with some gibberish or factory code. The new OTC evolve reads them just fine as a P---- code. Could be the vehicle too, but it was a '12-'13 model IIRC.

Kinda backs up the point of having multiple scan tools when they all dont do everything well (or at all). Makes it somewhat hard that way if you're buying your own.


One thing that can help is we have an Identifix subscriptionat the shop and if you search the codes or symptoms you have, common problems/repairs show up and they usually can point you in the right direction to fix it. It isnt perfect though, but it can help.

 

[gezn2]

I'm watching this thread with interest, I'm gearing up for a venture with a family member flipping used cars.
I have a Launch Diagun in hand, it seems pretty promising but I haven't exercised it that much yet, excellent bang for the buck if you can deal with the 'graymarket' issues...
I also invested in a Pico 2204 but need to get my spare laptop squared away before trying that out, 2204 comes 'naked' and you're going to spend at least 200+ more for amp clamps, attenuators, and extras.
I'm well aware there is more spend in my future, I'd rather do my homework first.
My light reading for the last few weeks has been ScannerDanner

 

[joetech]

I'm watching this thread with interest, I'm gearing up for a venture with a family member flipping used cars.
I have a Launch Diagun in hand, it seems pretty promising but I haven't exercised it that much yet, excellent bang for the buck if you can deal with the 'graymarket' issues...
I also invested in a Pico 2204 but need to get my spare laptop squared away before trying that out, 2204 comes 'naked' and you're going to spend at least 200+ more for amp clamps, attenuators, and extras.
I'm well aware there is more spend in my future, I'd rather do my homework first.
My light reading for the last few weeks has been ScannerDanner

Thank you for the info on the 2204. Could have figured that out eventually, probably not in my near future if it takes that much hassle to put together!!

I can handle graymarket issues... I don't handle "electronic brick" issues well though. Autel is 100% off my list because of various issues that people have. Launch products haven't raised red flags yet but I don't like the legalities of them either. Foxwell still perks my interest.

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what would be the best bang for my buck that has actual reviews online from people who actually use the tools on a daily basis vs "reset my codes for emissions inspections" ****.

So far I've seen a few different tools that are interesting. Matco Maximus and Matco MaxMe both look interesting.

$60/month subscription for the MaxMe for domestic cars or all cars for $105/month. Buy in price is $999 new, $500 used on that. If the MaxMe would work as a code reader without a subscription that might not be too bad, but I would rather have a one and done solution.

Still looking.

 

[joetech]

after an afternoon of reading and researching I'm going to talk to the boss tomorrow about a maxgo scanner. maxme is a pita because it's monthly subscription BUT I could be sold on that if it was a good enough value. I see matco has a kit to convert the maxme to maxgo so I should just as well go with the maxgo in the first place. maximus looks interesting too.

also looking at launch x-431 pro which is supposed to be the same thing as the maxgo scanner.

I would think I would probably get better after sale support from matco but I imagine I should email them prior to purchase to see what their policy is on that.

This is such a royal pain in the posterior and I have no intention of spending any more than $1000 on this at the moment.

I do appreciate all the comments pointing me in the right direction.

Autel is completely off my list because of their issues as well. Haven't seen dissing about Matco's stuff though.

 

[Tallpilot]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153327413182

This unit looks fine. Try offering $600 and see if they counter.

 

[joetech]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153327413182

This unit looks fine. Try offering $600 and see if they counter.

Thank you!!!! That gives me something else to consider and I do like the price point/scanner. I think the boss would like it as well as he likes Snapon.

Who makes SnapOn Scanners? That's the one thing about Matco, another rebadged Chinese product... Launch.

 

[matt_o_70]

gezn2 - I've seen some youtube's of the Diagon - it looks like a slick package and seems to offer most of the features of the bigger scan tools.

It looks like a contender as far as value and the $500 price point - what are the downsides? What are the grey market issues?

 

[Tallpilot]

Thank you!!!! That gives me something else to consider and I do like the price point/scanner. I think the boss would like it as well as he likes Snapon.

Who makes SnapOn Scanners? That's the one thing about Matco, another rebadged Chinese product... Launch.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Thank you!!!! That gives me something else to consider and I do like the price point/scanner. I think the boss would like it as well as he likes Snapon.

Who makes SnapOn Scanners? That's the one thing about Matco, another rebadged Chinese product... Launch.

Snap on does. Matco/Mac are rebrands.


I will say this as a preface, if you do not receive a portion of tickets as an efficiency bonus, do not spend anything on a scan tool. If the owner wants to pay you hourly, with no incentive structure to pay you more for making him more money, you would be only enriching the owner while you incur all costs. Same deal with a scope, or anything else. Buy tools to make your life easier, and that's it, if you will only receive hourly pay.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NID51JQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

For an entry level scanner, Launch 129 is a nice unit, now with electric parking brake. Lifetime updates, some graphing, it did me well. German coverage is weak, although you don't seem to have a high demand for it. Your price range is in the diagnostic no-mans-land. Below 1200 but above 300 there are not a ton of choices that reflect good value. Autel 906 is likely best value for money for new units (I have a 906 and have made a lot of money with it). Used snap on units can be purchased for under $1000, but will be out of date, requiring update which can be $1000.


And for what it's worth, don't buy a scan tool for GM automated bleed, it's a waste of money. Disconnect the battery when you start the job (about 20-30min disconnected time required), then bleed it normally with the battery still unhooked. You'll find this gives a better pedal than auto-bleed ever does, and in less time. When I replace brake lines, often doing every line at the same time, I have the system bleed and ready to drive in about 2-3 min using this method after I get some fluid flow with the mity-vac. Auto-bleed is garbage, believe it or not those chevy trucks can actually have a good brake pedal.


I have the Launch 129 as my code-clearer, an Autel 906, and a Snap On Modis updated to 2011, which I mainly use as a scope.

 

[gdudik]

I’d never heard of a topside creeper either. You just rocked my world!

 

[gezn2]

gezn2 - I've seen some youtube's of the Diagon - it looks like a slick package and seems to offer most of the features of the bigger scan tools.

It looks like a contender as far as value and the $500 price point - what are the downsides? What are the grey market issues?

So far it functions well, no complaints there.
The biggest grey market concern is that if something goes wrong you're dealing with Launch China, Launch US will not have anything to do with you.

 

[jimindm]

I have been in your position a few times in my working career. You buy tools to help you do your job faster and better. Those tools cost you money and they had better make you money.

The first time I was just out of school, working for a towing company that had a shop. The shop did a lot of fleet work. Most of the accounts had a few vehicles that were up fitted for what they done. Then there was the trucks of the towing service and an armoured truck service that every vehicle was upfitted.

Exhaust work was just a job that you learned to hate. many of the units were sort of just cut off behind the converter and pieced together on the upfitted truck. This was the mid 80s when tow trucks sort of started getting wheel lifts.

When new they just sort of got turn downs, and we sort of were tasked with getting them out the back, plus repairs along the way. The boss bought a used exhaust bender and that made it much easier to get areas that you could put a clamp on, that a clamp would actually seal.

At the time I raced karts and had bought a used wire welder for home use from the snap-on guy a year or so before the boss bought the exhaust bender. It was a 110 unit and worked for what I needed it for. Believe it or not, at work we had a arc welder or oxy-acet. You can not imagine how many pipes I welded up with a cutting head and wire coat hangers.

I got to the point that I would bring my welder in when I knew we could use it, and before long I just left it at work, and took it home the few times I needed it there. The boss seen it being used and always said some day he should buy one.

Not that he did not pay anything, a set of tires here a tank of gas there, it was what it was. After about a year or so the snap-on guy came in and had welders on sale. The boss started dealing with him on a new one with mine in trade. When I made it out on the truck, I told the dealer I was not sure what kind of deal went down but I owned the welder.

He said he had talked with the boss about it and even mentioned that I bought it used from him a few years prior. He told me not to worry it would be OK for me. Next week came and when he showed up we packed up my welder to load on the truck, just as the dealer was unloading not one, but two new ones. I looked at the boss and he just said he figured I had worn mine out for his business, and one of the new ones was mine. He just asked if he could keep my gas bottle, until he could get one for me in a few days.

The second time I worked for a guy in the early 90s. He was what it sounds like your situation. He had a bout the basic of scan tools and it was a GM and ford only. I think it was a OTC monitor 2000. To be fair cars were nothing like they are today. That scan tool had one or two lines of information on it, and it did work pretty good for what it was.

I went from 75 hours a week at the towing shop, to a 40 hour a week job. I found I worked a lot at home, and needed a scan tool. I ended up buying the snap-on red brick. Let me tell you to go from two lines of information to what the brick had, and throw in all of the adapters that made almost any make of vehicle possible.

I got it and took it home and the boss came over the next day and said he had a jeep to scan. I asked him how we were going to do that with his scan tool that did not have the connectability. He just looked at me and said, well you have the ability. I told him that tool went home and that I bought it for me to make money.

Lets just say that for a few months he paid me to use my scan tool at work. It was not long and he had one bought also.

I would just say that you need to buy tools for you to make money on. That can be any way you want to do it. Just remember you boss will get the big pay back in the end, when it comes to billing the customer.

You have had a lot of answers on different scan tools. Some will say I drink the snap-on kool aid, but they really have a great product. Most service all makes all models, and that is what you want. Some already have a scope feature in them. What is nice is that you can see the test, what kind of pattern you are looking for, and the scope is already set and ready to go as far as triggers, volt setting and such. To get the best out of it.

If you buy one from snap-on, be sure that they still support it. Electronics are moving fast, and there will likely never be another red brick that they will service for decades. But like others have said they build it and they sell it, and it is aimed towards the automotive repair industry.

Last but not least it sounds as if the shop owner has many tools, it may just be time he invests in his shops future. You may just sit down with him and discuss where he sees the shop in a month, a year or ten years. It maybe he only wants to do under car work, and not need a scan tool. Be able to pick and choose jobs that it is not required to have one.

Just make sure you are doing it for you and for you to make money. How ever that works out for you. I have only had the snap-on line of scan products, so I can not tell you about others. I can tell you though that as I have upgraded along the way, many adapters and test leads are absolutely compatible.

 

[joetech]

Snap on does. Matco/Mac are rebrands.

I will say this as a preface, if you do not receive a portion of tickets as an efficiency bonus, do not spend anything on a scan tool. If the owner wants to pay you hourly, with no incentive structure to pay you more for making him more money, you would be only enriching the owner while you incur all costs. Same deal with a scope, or anything else. Buy tools to make your life easier, and that's it, if you will only receive hourly pay.

That's absolutely where I am at right now. I am of the opinion it wouldn't be hard to get an efficiency bonus or better pay for having a scan tool... but do I want to waste money on the scan tool? I'm also quickly seeing that the shop is named "tire & lube" and we're not always getting that many cars in for actual service work. I enjoy the service work and beating the clock, not giving away full service oil changes for just a regular oil change price. The boss is tired of it too, I told him that we need to have an option for "oil change" which can be done in 20 mins or less or an option for "full service" which takes about twice as long. Weed out the value minded shoppers from the people who actually want to take care of their cars.

For an entry level scanner, Launch 129 is a nice unit, now with electric parking brake. Lifetime updates, some graphing, it did me well. German coverage is weak, although you don't seem to have a high demand for it. Your price range is in the diagnostic no-mans-land. Below 1200 but above 300 there are not a ton of choices that reflect good value. Autel 906 is likely best value for money for new units (I have a 906 and have made a lot of money with it). Used snap on units can be purchased for under $1000, but will be out of date, requiring update which can be $1000.

I know my price range is 100% in no man's land. It's also in a range where I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth messing with it.

And for what it's worth, don't buy a scan tool for GM automated bleed, it's a waste of money. Disconnect the battery when you start the job (about 20-30min disconnected time required), then bleed it normally with the battery still unhooked. You'll find this gives a better pedal than auto-bleed ever does, and in less time. When I replace brake lines, often doing every line at the same time, I have the system bleed and ready to drive in about 2-3 min using this method after I get some fluid flow with the mity-vac. Auto-bleed is garbage, believe it or not those chevy trucks can actually have a good brake pedal.


I have the Launch 129 as my code-clearer, an Autel 906, and a Snap On Modis updated to 2011, which I mainly use as a scope.

Thank you! I will do that next time I have to do it. We had another car come in today with ABS sensor issues, would have been nice to have a scanner that'd identify the faulty wheel. I think it was an older Impala.

 

[joetech]

I’d never heard of a topside creeper either. You just rocked my world!

It's awesome. I do 100% of the truck service work at the shop and it's so much better than crawling on the truck. I haven't gotten a pool noodle put on my creeper yet... but I literally don't touch any part of the truck but the fluid caps.

I used it on 3 or 4 trucks today.

and YES this one is worth the extra $75 vs the cheap one!!!!!!!!!

https://traxionproducts.com/collections/tools-equipment/products/pg-topside-creeper

I researched both of them thoroughly and many times I've said THANK YOU for buying the more expensive one.

The critical difference is the fact that you can be a foot closer to the wheel than with the other design.... BIG DIFFERENCE when you are reaching for that last plug in the rear.

 

[joetech]

I have been in your position a few times in my working career. You buy tools to help you do your job faster and better. Those tools cost you money and they had better make you money.

The first time I was just out of school, working for a towing company that had a shop. The shop did a lot of fleet work. Most of the accounts had a few vehicles that were up fitted for what they done. Then there was the trucks of the towing service and an armoured truck service that every vehicle was upfitted.

Exhaust work was just a job that you learned to hate. many of the units were sort of just cut off behind the converter and pieced together on the upfitted truck. This was the mid 80s when tow trucks sort of started getting wheel lifts.

When new they just sort of got turn downs, and we sort of were tasked with getting them out the back, plus repairs along the way. The boss bought a used exhaust bender and that made it much easier to get areas that you could put a clamp on, that a clamp would actually seal.

At the time I raced karts and had bought a used wire welder for home use from the snap-on guy a year or so before the boss bought the exhaust bender. It was a 110 unit and worked for what I needed it for. Believe it or not, at work we had a arc welder or oxy-acet. You can not imagine how many pipes I welded up with a cutting head and wire coat hangers.

I got to the point that I would bring my welder in when I knew we could use it, and before long I just left it at work, and took it home the few times I needed it there. The boss seen it being used and always said some day he should buy one.

Not that he did not pay anything, a set of tires here a tank of gas there, it was what it was. After about a year or so the snap-on guy came in and had welders on sale. The boss started dealing with him on a new one with mine in trade. When I made it out on the truck, I told the dealer I was not sure what kind of deal went down but I owned the welder.

He said he had talked with the boss about it and even mentioned that I bought it used from him a few years prior. He told me not to worry it would be OK for me. Next week came and when he showed up we packed up my welder to load on the truck, just as the dealer was unloading not one, but two new ones. I looked at the boss and he just said he figured I had worn mine out for his business, and one of the new ones was mine. He just asked if he could keep my gas bottle, until he could get one for me in a few days.

The second time I worked for a guy in the early 90s. He was what it sounds like your situation. He had a bout the basic of scan tools and it was a GM and ford only. I think it was a OTC monitor 2000. To be fair cars were nothing like they are today. That scan tool had one or two lines of information on it, and it did work pretty good for what it was.

I went from 75 hours a week at the towing shop, to a 40 hour a week job. I found I worked a lot at home, and needed a scan tool. I ended up buying the snap-on red brick. Let me tell you to go from two lines of information to what the brick had, and throw in all of the adapters that made almost any make of vehicle possible.

I got it and took it home and the boss came over the next day and said he had a jeep to scan. I asked him how we were going to do that with his scan tool that did not have the connectability. He just looked at me and said, well you have the ability. I told him that tool went home and that I bought it for me to make money.

Lets just say that for a few months he paid me to use my scan tool at work. It was not long and he had one bought also.

I would just say that you need to buy tools for you to make money on. That can be any way you want to do it. Just remember you boss will get the big pay back in the end, when it comes to billing the customer.

You have had a lot of answers on different scan tools. Some will say I drink the snap-on kool aid, but they really have a great product. Most service all makes all models, and that is what you want. Some already have a scope feature in them. What is nice is that you can see the test, what kind of pattern you are looking for, and the scope is already set and ready to go as far as triggers, volt setting and such. To get the best out of it.

If you buy one from snap-on, be sure that they still support it. Electronics are moving fast, and there will likely never be another red brick that they will service for decades. But like others have said they build it and they sell it, and it is aimed towards the automotive repair industry.

Last but not least it sounds as if the shop owner has many tools, it may just be time he invests in his shops future. You may just sit down with him and discuss where he sees the shop in a month, a year or ten years. It maybe he only wants to do under car work, and not need a scan tool. Be able to pick and choose jobs that it is not required to have one.

Just make sure you are doing it for you and for you to make money. How ever that works out for you. I have only had the snap-on line of scan products, so I can not tell you about others. I can tell you though that as I have upgraded along the way, many adapters and test leads are absolutely compatible.

I appreciate your thoughts! I absolutely do need to talk to the boss about how he could compensate me for an investment in a scan tool.

Everything that I've bought to this point has been for my own comfort and peace of mind. 30" x 24" Masterforce toolbox with most of the hand tools that I could use, took in a drawer full of pliers, bought a full set of screwdrivers as all the screwdrivers that the shop has are broken off and decades old. That was only $15 of my money and has already made things there much easier. I've probably spent about $1000 up until this point. My criteria is always "If I didn't have this job would I keep the tool at home?" and if the answer was yes then I just go ahead and get it. I didn't feel like cleaning out my 2002 Craftsman 41" toolbox plus it has bad casters on it so that's why I picked up a new box.

The one exception is the topside creeper and that's because it made such a big difference in my job. I remember a few days before I got the topside creeper I was crawling all over a Jeep doing an intake manifold and was very worried I would break off an EGR valve or some such. Now, I have no issues. A few things are relative duplicates, such as picking up a full set of Pittsburgh combination wrenches in both metric and SAE, but the tools I kept at home are my grandfather's made in the USA craftsman. I should get a cheap 1/2" socket and breaker bar for the shop as I don't want to take in my Craftsman stuff.

I bought a carpet extractor because I have 4 vehicles I want to clean and some carpet in my house. Cost me $800 to buy it but if I paid to have my cars done plus the house that's $500 right there. It's not going to the shop until we come up with a reasonable compensation plan. I could get up to $100 a car for a shampoo but it's cold right now and I don't have a warm shop for cars to dry out in.

 

[joetech]

Update. Looking at Snap-On scanners, older versions of what is currently sold by Snap-On- Ethos Pro, Modis Edge, Ethos Edge. Has taken a lot of research to figure out what would work.

Had the privilege of trying out a Foxwell today. What a piece of turd.

 

[joetech]

Bought a Ethos Pro tonight as well as a Fluke 87V. Hope I will be satisfied with both of them. Spent $550 on the Ethos.