Any market for a precision tool set?

[rtz]

Take a 5/8" wrench for example. Does it measure out to exactly .625? If you had 20 of them do they all measure out exact?

I propose a set of sockets and wrenches consisting of 3 sizes in every size. They could be marked like this:

5/8+
5/8
5/8-

They will all fit the fastener; but one of them will fit it best. It's been my experience that a lot of hardware is sloppy as in how it's made. I'm sure you've had a bolt or but and neither the 1/2" or 13mm is a nice fit and in time if you take an item apart enough times; the hardware gets all chewed up and looks like it's been taken apart a lot.

Would there be any market for a set of sockets and wrenches that have been sorted and marked? I'm thinking for the assembly of something and not wanting the fasteners all marked up.

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

Take a 5/8" wrench for example. Does it measure out to exactly .625? If you had 20 of them do they all measure out exact?

I propose a set of sockets and wrenches consisting of 3 sizes in every size. They could be marked like this:

5/8+
5/8
5/8-

They will all fit the fastener; but one of them will fit it best. It's been my experience that a lot of hardware is sloppy as in how it's made. I'm sure you've had a bolt or but and neither the 1/2" or 13mm is a nice fit and in time if you take an item apart enough times; the hardware gets all chewed up and looks like it's been taken apart a lot.

Would there be any market for a set of sockets and wrenches that have been sorted and marked? I'm thinking for the assembly of something and not wanting the fasteners all marked up.

Knock yourself out. For the sake of consistency, and because I am conservative in nature, I will keep buying the time-proven standard sizes.


Report back when you're up and running.

 

[moon_tanner]

I have mostly Gearwrench, Craftsman, and vintage PROTO & Armstrong wrenches for breaking lose fasteners.

If there is a fastener that is rusted on and I really need to brake it free in one shot, I'll cycle through the three brands I have to find the best fit in that size.

I use different brands specifically for the reason you described.

 

[rsanter]

Yes there is
They make mill spec fasteners and mill spec tools.
Typically companies like snap on that can hold better tolerances get those contracts.
There are also specific wrenches and sockets for specific applications that the general public won’t see or need

 

[Mbsk01]

I would buy a set of wrenches marked in decimal just for the novelty of it.

"Hey, pass the .5625, will ya?"

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

I would buy a set of wrenches marked in decimal just for the novelty of it.

"Hey, pass the .5625, will ya?"

Sorry Bubba, all I have is a 2303/4096"

 

[Spacey_G]

Here's a webpage that will give you ASME standard tolerances for width across flats: http://www.amesweb.info/Fasteners/Bolts/Hex-Bolt-Dimensions.aspx Similar standards exist for wrench openings, although I don't see it on that site. (They do have a page for allen wrench tolerances). Maybe you could make a couple of fits that cover different ranges of clearances.

If you're going to make precision tools, you may as well make one set that has less clearance on a standard bolt head. Maybe you could make an argument for a larger size to fit on crusty fasteners, but now you're talking about a very expensive tool set that doesn't have enough of an advantage over standard tools.

 

[BuffettFan]

ASME standards are great. If the manufacturer chooses to follow them.
Unfortunately, there is no enforcement or penalty for NOT adhering them.
In my experience, you get what you pay for, so generally, the higher end stuff is going to meet the specs, while the cheaper, (read chineseium) stuff, doesn't.
I had a customer a few years back who had me machine some large, 3", 4" and 5" NPT valves requiring me to thread mill the male and female threads.
Of course, we bought all of the thread gages and inspected 100% of our threads.
When he went to assemble, with his on-line purchased components,nothing fit.
Some were too big, others too small. He was understandably pissed.
I asked him to bring all of the components back to the shop, which he did, and we checked our machined parts and the On-line parts. Ours all gaged perfectly and the on-line stuff was all over the place.
Standards are great as long as everyone follows them.
BTW, we ended up machining all of his components after that.

 

[Zewnten]

In wood working most guys have chisels in this setup, a true 1/2 inch and along narrow and wide 1/2 inch chisels . Just depending on the fit you want but I'm not sure how this would work loosening bolts and nuts.

 

[Spacey_G]

ASME standards are great. If the manufacturer chooses to follow them.
Unfortunately, there is no enforcement or penalty for NOT adhering them.
In my experience, you get what you pay for, so generally, the higher end stuff is going to meet the specs, while the cheaper, (read chineseium) stuff, doesn't.
I had a customer a few years back who had me machine some large, 3", 4" and 5" NPT valves requiring me to thread mill the male and female threads.
Of course, we bought all of the thread gages and inspected 100% of our threads.
When he went to assemble, with his on-line purchased components,nothing fit.
Some were too big, others too small. He was understandably pissed.
I asked him to bring all of the components back to the shop, which he did, and we checked our machined parts and the On-line parts. Ours all gaged perfectly and the on-line stuff was all over the place.
Standards are great as long as everyone follows them.
BTW, we ended up machining all of his components after that.

While there's no enforcement of the standards per se, it would be unwise for a reputable manufacturer to make tools that don't work with most of the hardware out there that was made to the standard.

In short, buy quality parts and quality tools.

 

[Tynee]

I had a customer a few years back who had me machine some large, 3", 4" and 5" NPT valves requiring me to thread mill the male and female threads.

I’ve been messing with pressure piping for 15 years. Never seen a 5” threaded anything. Out of curiosity, what’s the application?

You may now return to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[MayerMR]

Take a 5/8" wrench for example. Does it measure out to exactly .625? If you had 20 of them do they all measure out exact?

I propose a set of sockets and wrenches consisting of 3 sizes in every size. They could be marked like this:

5/8+
5/8
5/8-

They will all fit the fastener; but one of them will fit it best. It's been my experience that a lot of hardware is sloppy as in how it's made. I'm sure you've had a bolt or but and neither the 1/2" or 13mm is a nice fit and in time if you take an item apart enough times; the hardware gets all chewed up and looks like it's been taken apart a lot.

Would there be any market for a set of sockets and wrenches that have been sorted and marked? I'm thinking for the assembly of something and not wanting the fasteners all marked up.

I think it sounds like a neat concept, but as others have suggested, you'd basically have a very limited market for the following reasons; 1) Price - you've likely have to charge quite a bit for these sets because of the very fact that they are precision, they must have tight tolerances, otherwise your +/- sockets wouldn't mean much. Your supplier will definitely charge you a premium for this. 2) Because of the low volumes you'll have to start out with, you'll not be able to capitalize too much on volume pricing. 3) You'll not have any Brand Equity with which to leverage against - you'll have to build up your reputation from scrap. 4) You'll have to have some pretty great marketing and collateral to substantiate the value to escape the "novelty tool" effect that is so prevalent in the tool industry. And lastly, 5) The basic concept that you're probably charging well over 3x (prob closer 10x) the cost for a single set of sockets, granted you're getting 3x the sockets...but yeah.

So, not to be all doom and gloom and disinterest someone who is thinking outside the box. I'd suggest doing something like the following instead; rather than offering a precision set of sockets, I'd suggest offering a full set of *quality* sockets in the more obscure standards, something like Whitworth, etc. And then have a very targeted focus on your target market. Like in the aforementioned example, people who restore antique and vintage British motorcycles (and I'm sure other antique British goods) - only advertise in areas where those, admittedly niche, folks spend their time. Small circulation magazines and web forums - that'll help keep your costs down.

Still, you're not likely to retire of your venture any time soon, but I'd be willing to bet that you'd sell more units than your first concept. And if you do it right, you'll get some reputation (Brand Equity) and hopefully additional capital to reinvest in your new venture.

Good luck OP!

S/F,

-Matt

 

[cheechi]

I would buy a set of wrenches marked in decimal just for the novelty of it.

"Hey, pass the .5625, will ya?"

I wish someone would mark sae wrenches 3 ways (0.25, 1/4, 4/16) or 2 ways ( 0.5625, 9/16) for sets that don't include 7/32 or 11/32. Or hell even just do them all in 32nds.

However, fractions don't need significant figures and I bet that's why they will never stamp them with decimal equivalents. Same manufacturing tolerances you'd get 0.2500" and I'm sure they wouldn't stamp it that way even if it becomes a thing.

 

[Gmonkee]

I have old Brit made A/F wrenches marked in decimal. I got them for near nothing as nobody wanted weird marked tools.

Eagle brand maybe from the early 50's?

 

[lwlobo]

Interesting idea but I think its a solution in search of a problem. Can't ever remember thinking, I wish I had a wrench a few thou smaller (or larger) than nominal.

I think you are overestimating the importance of fasterner/tool fit.

If the joint were that critical, most manufacturers would probably go to 12 pt or E-torx or something.

 

[Negen]

Isn't this the reason surface drive/flank drive/spline drive sockets and ratchets are around. I am sure higher quality brands of tools have tighter deviations than some of the lower cost tools. I know the bolts and nuts I get from fastenal are more to specs than home depot or other places. I could be wrong though.

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[equitiesguy]

Take a 5/8" wrench for example. Does it measure out to exactly .625? If you had 20 of them do they all measure out exact?

I propose a set of sockets and wrenches consisting of 3 sizes in every size. They could be marked like this:

5/8+
5/8
5/8-

They will all fit the fastener; but one of them will fit it best. It's been my experience that a lot of hardware is sloppy as in how it's made. I'm sure you've had a bolt or but and neither the 1/2" or 13mm is a nice fit and in time if you take an item apart enough times; the hardware gets all chewed up and looks like it's been taken apart a lot.

Would there be any market for a set of sockets and wrenches that have been sorted and marked? I'm thinking for the assembly of something and not wanting the fasteners all marked up.

There is a market, and it's called snapon. I just checked the three 13mm wrenches I own from snapon (all OEXM1300 of one variation or another), and there isn't even a one thousandth difference between the three when measured with calipers.

There will be more variance with the garbage fasteners than with the tools used to remove them.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Im in if it includes Metric and Yankee screw clockers.

 

[Air21]

Probably the only time you'll see more than a thousandths difference in forged wrenches is between the first months run and the very lasts months run on that particular die, however long those last.

 

[Gmonkee]

Outside if the gj and **** retentive machinists most will never see a need for such a product.

Tooling up three sets of dies each size and keeping them fresh and precise will not be cheap. And that is -before- you can offer a product.

But if it reaches production I would doubt a 2nd set would ever be needed.

Retailers look for the numbers, the mass market to move numbers of an item.
You have to convince a wider public than just machinists that this precision is a real issue and your product gives benefits for the money they will spend.

Most can't tell a micrometer from a C clamp much less read one.
Meanwhile the other side of the issue has been estsblished with modified broaching to off corner, spline drive and metrinch all of which are commercial successes and pretty much the opposite of precision.

Yes. Among a few you will find a market but will they pay a grand each set to offset tooling and production costs? QC will be absolutely crucial to maintaining the image of precsion and perfection your public will demand. One slip hits a public forum and it could sink the entire line.
Not impossible but it will take effort to ensure QC stays perfect at the warehouse door.

Joe Public posts here asking if he should keep or sell his SAE tools as nothing he owns uses them. I do not see him "needing" precision triple redundant socket sets as he brags up his new SK X frame spline drive wrenches.

And the poor Hansen tray addicts will all need valium the first week as they struggle to figure a way to display your sockets.

 

[CR888]

I like the idea of choosing the tolerance of sockets & wrenches. How many of UA have chewed a fastener due to the tool not having a tight fit. I also get it that fasteners have issue too, but when you get that perfect no wobble fit, its kinda magic. Its a tricky one though when you dig into this issue.

 

[pi_guy]

There is a show at Jacob Javits every few years. The show is Packaging, Medical and some other types. But in the Medical there were two companies that sold custom made tools in any material you supply design or pick what they have already done.
But being one of those that have found that SO has a decent degree of accuracy have you tried the Hi Performance sockets?

 

[M6erfan]

METRINCH. Boom!

 

[Tallpilot]

It sounds like Snap-on is about to release some type of Flank Drive Plus socket with better fit in order to remove rounded off fasteners. This is not as extreme as the OP’s suggestion but is a step in that direction.

 

[larry_g]

To have wrenches 'on size' of the fastener will make for a tight fit if you have a fastener that is 'on size' If you check the standards of fasteners and wrenches you will find things have a built in clearance. For most this tolerance works. If you have a need for something with tighter or closer fits then special tools/fasteners will be called for. For general maintenance of current machines and vehicles things work.

lg
no neat sig line