Any Northeast Ohio HVAC pros on here?

[Garage Junkie]

So this isn't really garage related, but there is so much knowledge and experience on this board, that I figured I would come here looking for some help. Besides, if I could put this project behind me, I could spend more time in the shop!

So last year I purchased a nifty heat exchanger system that takes the heat otherwise given off by a central air condenser and puts it into the pool instead. This will work especially well for me since we are heavily wooded and don't get that much direct sunlight each day. Plus, it claims to make your AC heat exchange a bit more efficient.

The problem I'm having is that this system depends on some install expertise. Without going into tons of detail, I have spent the winter-spring figuring out the electrical/controls side of the system and believe I have that part finished and ready to test. Now I'm stuck trying to find someone to do the refrigerant work. The sytem acts as a second loop that bypasses the condensor coil when the pool calls for heat. When the pool doesn't need heat, the AC system operates normally. To accomplish this, you must install a refrigerant switching valve (some i guess call it a reversing valve) and a normally closed valve on the other side of the loop. Then complete the copper loop between the unit and the AC Condenser and recharge the system.

So I talked to 3 HVAC companies face to face, and cold called another half dozen. No one wants to mess with this. Their reasoning ranging from no time to spend figuring it out to too complex etc. I even asked a couple companies if they would be willing to just bill it as time and materials for however long it takes. "No" seems to be all I get. Is there a better way to ask for this kind of work? Anyone know someone in OH that would be willing to do this? Some told me to call a pool company, so I tried that. As soon as I said AC, they said call an HVAC company.....

Pics of what I'm trying to work on if it helps:

The bigger unit in the foreground is the one I want to connect to. The blue cylinder behind it is the heat exchanger.

 

[brewchief]

I work for an HVAC company and can see not wanting to do that job, if anything goes wrong down the road we would not want the blame.

That said I would try calling a few companies that do commercial refrigeration work as it may be something they would be willing to do. A company that deals with geothermal equipment may be another possibility.

 

[jd_1138]

I don't think the AC condenser will generate enough heat to heat the pool? If it's cold enough to have to run the pool heater, then you don't want to waste energy running the AC. Seems illogical.

I'd get some solar panels and/or solar pool heaters instead.

 

[Garage Junkie]

Good point Brewchief- I guess I automatically assumed I would lose any warranty on the AC system (there isn't any at this point), but I did not stress that with anyone I talked to.

One place pointed me in the direction of commercial- they immediately said no as soon as I said it was residential.

I had forgotten about the geothermal folks- I'll look around for someone tomorrow... thanks for that idea!

 

[Garage Junkie]

I don't think the AC condenser will generate enough heat to heat the pool? If it's cold enough to have to run the pool heater, then you don't want to waste energy running the AC. Seems illogical.

I'd get some solar panels and/or solar pool heaters instead.

The folks that made the unit did all the calcs- my 5 ton AC unit should provide enough heat to maintain the pool above 80 degrees here in Ohio. Good for spring opening? no. Good to keep it open in the fall? no. But the house does get enough sun to require cooling, so why throw that heat away literally feet from the pool works? And cost wise, this saves money over time through efficiency gain in cooling the house versus pumping water through a vertical loop to solar collectors on the roof. Initial costs between the two systems are similar if you do most of the work your self.

With that said, a solar system would be working right now while I'm begging someone to come over and braze copper.

 

[Dagny]

Keep looking and asking around there has to be someone around there who can do it. I've made a living doing jobs like that,not specifically pool heaters but things others are afraid of.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Looks like a solid concept. Runs like a geothermal condenser. I can understand why comtractors wouldn't want to get involved, but I don't see why it shouldn't work. If I was close enough, I'd give you a hand with the install.


Tommy

 

[sseddon641]

My suggestion would be a post On Craigslist to find someone that does hvac work and wants to do side jobs, or even better buy some copper fittings and some pipe and learn how to braze and diy. As far as charging the system when you are done you can always buy a set of cheap gauges and refrigerant online to get it done and me or another hvac tech on here could help you fumble through it. If i was closer I would also give you a hand but I also enjoy working on weird things you don't see everyday.

 

[Rock Hound]

Might want to check the vocational schools in the area also. Since they are not for profit and there is no hourly rate they might be willing to work on it just to work on something out of the ordinary.

 

[Garage Junkie]

Found a local firm that specializes in geothermal willing to take it on. Will hook it up in a couple weeks!

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Great! Post up with details!

Tommy

 

[rburke65]

Yes, seems like this would be an interesting post to watch. Good luck.

 

[David C]

I suggest you hire a local mechanical engineer, someone that specializes in HVAC systems.

You are asking the contractor to do two things, design the system and do the installation work. The design is more than what most small HVAC contractors can provide and what you are requesting is not a simple design. You may need to add or replace water pumps. The added HX would change the pressure drop in the refrigerant system. The control system for this would need to be integrated with the controls for the AC and pool system.

This is a lot to ask of an HVAC contractor, and what they are likely concerned about is the tinkering required to get it working as well as repeated calls that it doesn't seem to be working in the way you expected.

Get all of the specifications on the additional equipment you purchased as well as all the make model of all of your existing equipment and take it to an engineer.

I would ask your engineer to first review the equipment to see what you might expect to achieve in terms of energy transfer to your pool and compare it to an estimated cost of the installation including design. Do this before embarking on a full design which would include drawings and written specifications.

Consider also that you would be adding complexity to your refrigeration and pool systems that might require future maintenance.

For what it is worth, if someone asked my engineering firm to design this I would tell them I couldn't get to it for at least a year maybe more. The problems resulting from a home owners expectations, as well as managing the contractor, would materially exceed any reasonable fee. Not saying there isn't an engineer that would be happy to have the work.