Any Oxy/Acetylene guys here?

[66354dream]

Hey guys, I 'm going to be purchasing my first OA ( Oxy/ Acetylene) kit very soon both tanks are about 300CF each and was interested in getting some feed back from people experienced with OA. I've done a lot of research on safety since I have an idea how dangerous the stuff can be, Im planning on using it for welding as well as cutting since I live in a rental property and the land lord will not hook up electricity in my garage ( I run an extension cord from my bathroom to get juice ). Any how this is the kit I'm interested in http://www.cutlikeplasma.com/qs30/products.php?pid=20&detail=true
I figure it's still cheaper than buying a decent air compressor, welder and plasma cutter. what do you guys think? any tips to get me started? words of advise? thanks.

 

[BuildFixModify]

I learned how to weld on oxy/acetylene first. As a word of advice, if you buy used tanks be sure they are owned instead of leased. Also, I don't know much about the kit that you posted the link to. I had a radnor set (which I think is an economy line victor) that worked very well for me.

 

[shawnspeed]

Gas welding takes skill , and should be the first method learned to become a proficient weldor, IMO...Just be sure you pay close attention to the rules regarding handling of the cylinders and gases, especially when transporting acetylene..and adjusting the regulators....no more than 15lbs pressure on acetylene, and no laying the bottles down for transport...That torch kit looks pretty good...looks the same as the Dillon I used when I apprenticed under Ron Fourier....also be sure to check your connections with soapy water , and never leave the bottles turned on after you are done...good luck, Shawn

 

[Leoruiz]

I had a Cobra and got rid of it. If I were buying today I'd get a Smith kit.
I use an old Victor set I've had since the late seventies. Been in twice for a tune up in 37 or so years. I use torches a lot.I need to get with the times and Plasmatize but I do a fair amount of hot bending and preheating so I keep the Victor close at hand.
I can cut just as good as that Cobra. It's all in the tip selection and pressure adjustment.

 

[66354dream]

Gas welding takes skill , and should be the first method learned to become a proficient weldor, IMO...Just be sure you pay close attention to the rules regarding handling of the cylinders and gases, especially when transporting acetylene..and adjusting the regulators....no more than 15lbs pressure on acetylene, and no laying the bottles down for transport...That torch kit looks pretty good...looks the same as the Dillon I used when I apprenticed under Ron Fourier....also be sure to check your connections with soapy water , and never leave the bottles turned on after you are done...good luck, Shawn

Thanks, I believe they were made by Dillon for a while ( 1980's ?) I've been really excited about this.

 

[BD1]

I would check with local supplier on tanks for exchange . While there check on their price for a SMITH or VICTOR torch set. These are proven favorites of the industry for years plus made in USA. Here's a local supplier near me.
http://www.weldersupply.com/C/14/Outfits

 

[66354dream]

I would check with local supplier on tanks for exchange . While there check on their price for a SMITH or VICTOR torch set. These are proven favorites of the industry for years plus made in USA. Here's a local supplier near me.
http://www.weldersupply.com/C/14/Outfits

Thanks BD1, I stopped by a Tri Star welding supply yesterday to get info on getting my tanks exchanged and the guy at the counter was very friendly and said it wouldn't be a problem as long as they are not rental tanks or labeled as property of a company, he also quoted me and I was surprised it wasn't as expensive as I thought it would be.

 

[75CrewDeutz]

Always open the valves slowly and stand off to the side.

 

[Chris Stapley]

Dillon,Henrob,Cobra, they have been made under many names,very desirable amongst the metal shapers ! I'd like a set for my fab shop...

 

[slip knot]

I used my little Victor 101 today. Brazed up some cracks on a tractor hood. The A/O torches are very versatile, welding, cutting, bending, brazing. lots of fun to be had.

 

[kkroger]

Harris Victor or Smith... there is another that I just blanked on the name mine is a mishmash of the three.

 

[404]

If the flame goes out but there is a strange noise out of the torch, turn off all the gas pronto.

It is possible for the flame to jump inside the torch head and burn in there, and the torch will get red hot and eventually droopy. Your wallet will be sad.

 

[Tuscani2718]

If the flame goes out but there is a strange noise out of the torch, turn off all the gas pronto.

It is possible for the flame to jump inside the torch head and burn in there, and the torch will get red hot and eventually droopy. Your wallet will be sad.

Also buy the check valves for the lines. I can't recall their names as I don't use torches often.

As for the torch head never ever use equipment you even think may be compromised. Otherwise torches can be a load of fun

 

[matt_i]

I'd get the flashback arrestors for both gaslines.

I'd be really careful where you set down the torch while lit. It will light something like paper or cardboard in a big fire in 1 second, almost before you can react to the mistake you just made.

I'd be really careful where the hot slag is going when you cut. It will also roll under somewhere and light dust bunnies on fire.

So, I'd cut outdoors on concrete or asphalt with short green grass all around. I'd heat or weld on a thick steel tabletop or a heavy vise.

56% silver solder and white flux is a really amazingly strong thing for small parts.

 

[mike13u]

.... and no laying the bottles down for transport...good luck, Shawn

You can transport acetylene bottles horizontally. Just secure the bottle.

 

[BD1]

You can transport acetylene bottles horizontally. Just secure the bottle.

REMEMBER to let bottle stand upright before using for the same amount of time it was laying flat or longer.

 

[kkroger]

True Story, City of Kansas City Water Department was working on a line a block from my house and they had their bottles laying in the back of their truck, using them that way....

No singularity formed, no Black Holes... but it did give me the heebie jeebies....

 

[Shootingblanks]

I've got a Victor set and no complaints here.



Used it to cut, braze, weld, heat up stuff with rose bud. Very versatile, especially living in the rust bolt. Practice common sense and safety and you'll be alright. I check all my connections for leaks with a soapy spray bottle. I learned gas welding first and Mig and Tig come easier after learning gas.

I just had my acetylene filled and it traveled horizontally secured. Acetylene is unstable and volatile and I heard to let the bottle stand an hour or so after transporting vertically. I usually let it sit 12-24 hours since I usually pick the bottle up after work and sits till next day I need it.

 

[Dagny]

any LP users out there getting popular around here.

 

[bsaint]

I use Harris 50-8 or 50-9 handle for welding. I love it.

 

[Leoruiz]

any LP users out there getting popular around here.

No. They use twice the oxygen and require jet engine pressure. The only thing I'd consider it for might....might.....be a poor mans CNC cut table.Plenty of guys here use it too.It brazes half *** and will NOT weld.
The cutting is decent. I like the fine control and low pressures with acet.

 

[Steevo]

I think starting with an O/A torch set is a good idea.
Everyone should have to weld and cut using O/A before being allowed near a MIG, TIG, Plasma or any other modern welding tool.
And they should learn arc welding with a real stick welder.
All of this makes one a much better welder in the long run.

 

[rockinacummins]

Do not buy that cobra set. I have the dhc4000 and it is the biggest ************* I've ever wasted money on. It definitely doesn't cut like a plasma. And doesn't weld any better than a standard torch and welding tip.

Probably could practice with it enough and get better results, but I definitely don't recommend it for a beginner

 

[jimgood]

I agree with others that have said that starting with O/A is a good idea. You'll learn puddle control. I started on O/A as well. Well, that's technically not true. I actually started welding when I was a horseshoer and using a forge. While the principles are the same, the techniques are altogether different. But I digress.

The reason I went away from O/A is that I was/am using fairly thin gauge steel. I got a lot more distortion because the heat affected zone (HAZ) is much larger when you're using a O/A torch. You have to be mindful of that. After you weld, the metal shrinks and things start moving.

That's not to say you don't get distortion when using TIG or MIG. It's just not as dramatic. There are probably ways to plan for and mitigate that movement but, other than clamping the **** out of stuff or using a rosebud to preheat or reheat, I never really got any concrete advice on controlling it with O/A.

 

[66354dream]

Do not buy that cobra set. I have the dhc4000 and it is the biggest ************* I've ever wasted money on. It definitely doesn't cut like a plasma. And doesn't weld any better than a standard torch and welding tip.

Probably could practice with it enough and get better results, but I definitely don't recommend it for a beginner

Thanks for the heads up, I've been searching for info from people with real world experience with the kit and haven't been able to find any till now.

 

[nonhog]

Have my set up waiting for me to try it out. Looking forward to trying fusion welding sheet metal with it. Last I recall using a torch was in the late 70's
I am starting over also. Good luck to you!

 

[zkling]

any LP users out there getting popular around here.

I use oxy propane. For my needs it works great and is a cost/hassle saver. Granted I don't have the need to gas weld.

 

[ilovevocs]

The steel supplier I buy from locally has been using oxy propane for years and he raves about. Said for the cost and convince factor he won't go back. All he does though is cut. They don't do any fabricator.

 

[PCO6]

I use O/A for hammer welding sheet metal. It's the only way to do it properly without using filler rod. Using MIG wire to weld 2 sheets of metal together makes it impossible to run the welded joint through an English wheel.

 

[machine_punk]

The folks who use the Henrob & clones seem to really like them. I've seen them in use, but never tried one myself. It looks like it could be awkward to hold for out-of-position welding.

I have the Meco Midget for small stuff (steel and aluminum sheet). I have the Meco Aviator, with a cutting attachment, if I need to cut with a torch).

I have a Victor 100 for heavier material. The victor 100 has a cutting attachment (CA1350), if you want to be able to cut with it. I bought a vintage Victor 100 (not the "F" or "FC" model), then sent it to a torch/regulator refurbisher to get it tuned up. Works like new and it was is old enough to have been made in the US. There is very little which can go wrong with a vintage torch and everything was built to be 'rebuilt,' instead of thrown away.

Now that I've done a little bit of welding, I think I'd choose Harris torches, if I had it to do over again. (the 15-3 Aircraft Torch--but I tend to weld small/thin stuff). I think they have the cutting attachments for them too.

I actually recommend going to your LWS (Local Welding Supply) and see what they stock. I've had really good luck with relatively-low prices at my LWS, once I opened an account (it is truly a LOCAL welding supply, not one of the big chains).

The Wall Mountain Oxy-Acetylene welding DVD is pretty good for the price (Amazon or Northern Tool). For me, it really helped to have someone actually show me how to use the torch. Some of it is not very instinctive and very hard to write out in words. I ended up taking a 4-day torch class and feel confident in using the torch that I teach others to use the gas torch at Metal Meets.

Kev

 

[66354dream]

Would any of you happen to have any information on where I can sign up for one of these torch classes? I 'd really like to sign up for one.

 

[GRX]

I have both Oxy/Acetylene and Oxy/Propane set ups. Propane produces less heat yet gives a much cleaner flame. Plus it has a very different heat profile - difference between inner & outer cone. Easier to make a larger reducing flame area. Comes in handy when soldering softer materials and working more reactive metals. Gold, silver, copper, and platinum are very different animals than ferrous materials.

 

[taumac]

I think starting with an O/A torch set is a good idea.
Everyone should have to weld and cut using O/A before being allowed near a MIG, TIG, Plasma or any other modern welding tool.
And they should learn arc welding with a real stick welder.
All of this makes one a much better welder in the long run.

I totally agree. I choose to learn the "old" ways cause it would make me appreciate new technology and you don't have a nice mig or tig around. You got a torch set or old stick welder to get the job done.

I have both Oxy/Acetylene and Oxy/Propane set ups. Propane produces less heat yet gives a much cleaner flame. Plus it has a very different heat profile - difference between inner & outer cone. Easier to make a larger reducing flame area. Comes in handy when soldering softer materials and working more reactive metals. Gold, silver, copper, and platinum are very different animals than ferrous materials.

I was made to believe that propane is good for cutting and heating but not welding. It's was cheaper than acetylene. You saved the acetylene for when you needed.

 

[stihlntime]

On the farm we use propane. Simple reason is convenience. We don't run 30 miles for acetylene. Doesn't get near as hot, doesn't cut quite as clean. We only use it for cutting heating or bending. My old Victor set is at least 40 years old. We have 50' of hose on our set up. I've seen some clean cuts with acetylene but plasma is in a different league.

 

[machine_punk]

I took Kent White's 4-day Torch Intensive. (Kent White, Tinman, TM Technologies). He runs classes out of his shop near Nevada City, California. I live close enough to drive there, but a few guys flew in for the course.

I highly recommend this course. By the end of it, you'll understand soldering, brazing & welding with the oxyacetylene torch. You'll know how to adjust the torch for different metals, including steel, aluminum, stainless steel & copper. You will walk away from the course with enough knowledge and experience to make your torch do what you need it to do.

He usually seems to run the torch course in early December.

https://www.tinmantech.com/education/workshops/

Here is an assortment of test pieces I had at the end of the course

View media item 52482
Kev.

 

[KenS]

I have both a Cobra set and Victor torches for oxy-acetylene. I also have a Hypertherm Powermax 30 plasma cutter (now replaced by the improved Hypertherm Powermax 30 XP).

I think you may find cutting with the Cobra frustrating compared with the simplicity of a dedicated plasma cutter. (Some small plasma cutters have built-in compressors, but most need a clean, dry air-supply from a compressor). A standard oxy-acetylene cutting torch will out-perform the Cobra hands down.

Where the Cobra excels is with delicate work and also gas usage. It only uses 4 PSI of oxygen and acetylene, and this makes it an ideal torch for a small porta-pack type torch set. The problem is that most oxygen regulators are not that sensitive with that low a setting. And dedicated low-pressure regulators can get expensive quickly. Cobra instructions offer a solution, but I find they can still be a little finicky to get a consistent adjustment.

In my opinion the Cobra is highly over-priced. A little brass cap that covers a port when the torch is not being used for cutting costs $25.00 from a dealer, but about 75 cents for a similar brass plug from a plumbing supply house. I think that's one reason it's sold through a small network of dealers who make their money through substantial markups. The dealers are often very convincing salesmen who know their product and give great demonstrations-- but then again so do Veg-A-Matic demonstrators. You will never see Cobra dealers do a side-by-side comparison of their Cobra vs. a plasma cutter. But they claim their torch "cuts like plasma."

In recent years dealers have added a rosebud tip for the Cobra (Dillon, Henrob, DCH2000-- the early models from overseas used non-standard gas fillings), but it costs almost $100.00!

I bought my set for $100.00 from a pawn shop that had no idea what is was. At a more competitive price-point, the Cobra might be worth some consideration. But you will probably be better served with a Victor or Smiths set. (The Victor torch is the one that stays attached to my regulators, while the Cobra is in its box on the shelf and only used for special occasions.)

In my shop the oxy-acetylene mostly gets used for heating stubborn fasteners. My Hypertherm and mig welders get the most use.

If I was in your shoes I'd look for something like a Hobart Handler 140 mig unit (110-volt) for welding, and a Powermax 30 XP (110 or 220 volt) for cutting. If you can only afford one, get the mig and use a grinder with cut-off wheels for cutting until you can afford a plasma cutter.

 

[MoonRise]

I have both Oxy/Acetylene and Oxy/Propane set ups. Propane produces less heat yet gives a much cleaner flame. Plus it has a very different heat profile - difference between inner & outer cone. Easier to make a larger reducing flame area. Comes in handy when soldering softer materials and working more reactive metals. Gold, silver, copper, and platinum are very different animals than ferrous materials.

Ummm, not quite.

Oxy-acetylene produces a higher flame temperature (~5720F, neutral flame) in the inner cone than oxy-propane (~4579F, neutral flame).

Oxy-acetylene also has more heat produced in the inner flame cone (~507 Btu/ft3) than oxy-propane (~295 Btu/ft3).

But oxy-propane produces more heat in the secondary flame (the outer flame cone) at ~2268 Btu/ft3 than oxy-acetylene at ~963 Btu/ft3.

Oxy-propane produces more total heat (~2563 Btu/ft3) than oxy-acetylene (~1470 Btu/ft3).

(however, the total heating value for both fuels is the same on a per pound basis, at ~21,600 Btu/lb ).

So oxy-acetylene produces a hot and 'intense' inner flame, good for welding steel.

While oxy-propane produces a less intense inner flame but more overall heat than oxy-acetylene, so it is nice for 'heating' applications where the intensity of the oxy-acetylene flame is either not needed or not desirable.

Oxy-propane (or other non-acetylene fuels) works pretty good for cutting of steel (because the oxy-fuel flame is only there for preheat, and the actual cutting is from the oxygen cutting jet).

Propane as a fuel also doesn't have the 1:7 withdrawal rate safety limit that acetylene does.

 

[GRX]

Ummm, not quite.

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That is pretty much what I said. The Oxy/Propane flame has a different heat profile. Going from one mix to the other in the same shop the difference is obvious. According to my Machinery handbook Propane produces less overall heat.

Oxy/Propane flame = 4,080 F°
Oxy/Acetelyne flame = 6,330 F°

 

[dr_clyde]

That is pretty much what I said. The Oxy/Propane flame has a different heat profile. Going from one mix to the other in the same shop the difference is obvious. According to my Machinery handbook Propane produces less overall heat.

Oxy/Propane flame = 4,080 F°
Oxy/Acetelyne flame = 6,330 F°

Yes, but flame temperature is different than heat volume. Temperature and BTUs are 2 different things.

You can produce a much larger volume of heat per unit with propane because you can draw it off the cylinders faster than acetylene.

FWIW, I have acetylene. I do enough small intense heating that the propane flame isn't sufficient.

 

[joeswamp]

I took Kent White's 4-day Torch Intensive. (Kent White, Tinman, TM Technologies). He runs classes out of his shop near Nevada City, California. I live close enough to drive there, but a few guys flew in for the course.

That's a pricey course (esp if you have to fly in), but spending a few days with someone who is possibly the best O/A practitioner on the planet is probably worth it. When that guy holds a torch it turns into a magic wand.