Any recommendations for power generator?

[Ryan Wilke]

I'm considering to look into obtaining a portable and/or temporary electrical power supply generator that would be used in the event of a power outage. I didn't locate any such discussions when I typed GENERATOR into the "search" box here.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to have it set up so I could turn off my main feed breaker at my house power panel, then via a 220V plug tied into the panel supply, I would plug the generator into it which would in turn supply my house with power?

I'm thinking I'd likely need about a 5000KW - 6500KW unit.... I'd want to run a frig, a chest freezer, a submersible waterwell pump and a few light bulbs when necessary. I doubt I'd need to weld & run EVERY light during such events....... Does anyone have any suggestions, recommendations, thoughts on this subject?

Thanks in Advance!
RW

 

[Stuart in MN]

The most important thing about hooking up a generator is safety. A lot of people will plug the generator into a welder outlet or something like that, but it's really a bad idea. You need a manual transfer switch that makes it impossible to backfeed power out on the power line.

A typical method is to separate the essential items (refrigerator, furnace, a few lights) from the main breaker panel, and hook them up to a separate subpanel that's wired to the transfer switch. Here's a pretty good article on how to do the installation: Popular Mechanics article

 

[Ryan Wilke]

Thanks, Stuart!
That looks like about what I was looking/thinking about!

Thanks once again!
RW

 

[Sundowner]

right now, there's a Generac 7Kw generator quetly sitting in it's box on the side of my house. the electrician is coming on Monday to hook it up for me.

neat little system. it sits on it's own foundation on the side of the house, it plumbed into my natural gas line, and there's an automatic transfer switch attached to the breaker panel in the basement. after a 30 second continuous outage, it will automatically start the engine, cut street power to the breaker box, and then engergize a predetermined number of breakers. the bigger the generator, the more breakers you can use. the 7kw can power 8 breakers, which is all I need. all said and done, the bill was like $3k.

I can not afford to lose power. I have a lakefront home with a really high water table and I'm one of 3 homes that I know of in the neighborhood that has a real basement. even if I'm not home, the basement must have power at all times to keep the sump pump pumping. the sump pump MUST LIVE!

furthermore, as I am in the boondocks, when the power goes out, I lose my well pump, my septic pump, my heat, and my lights. I can't drink, I can't flush, I can't stay warm, and it's freaking dark out in the woods.

 

[DIGGER_DAVE]

The artical shows an excellent way to include "back-up" power.

But one CAUTION!

The "jumper" used to connect the generator to the new panel uses MALE plugs.
(with exposed prongs)
Which means the plug prongs on one end or the other COULD be HOT!
So .. handle with CARE!

 

[JohnZ]

We got tired of the unexplained outages from our Mickey-Mouse power company (Detroit Edison) three years ago, and installed an 18-KW Generac fully-automatic standby system; timing is everything - installed it in June, six weeks before the famous 3-day "regional outage", during which it paid for itself immediately. Details at the link below:

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=359956

 

[DIGGER_DAVE]

JohnZ, now THAT'S the real deal. Independance!
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the operating costs of your system running 24/7 vs. what you pay for the cost of your utility service

I was involved with setting up a computer server outlet that is VERY sensitive to power outages. The primary power back-up is done with "Battery Back-Up" units that have about 2 hours capacity.

If the system (local utility) is "down" for MORE than 60 min., then a diesel powered generator automatically starts and is "eased" into the power system. (engine powered generator systems take a few moments to "sync")

Once the generator settles in, the power is directed to the Battery Back-UP units to re-charge their batteries. They do this because the Battery Back-Up units have MASSIVE "line surge/filters" in them and by keeping the batteries charged, they continue to operate on them. (computers are a LOT more sensitive to fluctuations)
Actually the entire system operates off the battery back-ups; 365/24/7.
The "switch over" time for the BBU's is measured in nanoseconds; the computer equipment never sees a "hick up!"
This saves on a double set of filter and surge protectors.

Once the local utility is back on stream, (they wait for at least 10 min. in case of false starts) the BBU's internal battery chargers take over.
The generator remains running for another 15 min.
Just in CASE!

A side bar for those who use you computers a lot, and live in areas that are "prone" to power outages;
(I'm adding this because a lightning storm just "knocked" my utility power OFF; and I'm on BATTERY BACK-UP! And I'm sitting here in the light of the monitor screen!)
.. if your planning to purchase a battery back-up for your system, get one BIG enough to power ALL your accesories! CPU, monitor, modem, AND a small lamp!

Mine is good for about another 40 min. But; I've "babbled" enough!

 

[Stuart in MN]

The artical shows an excellent way to include "back-up" power.

But one CAUTION!

The "jumper" used to connect the generator to the new panel uses MALE plugs.
(with exposed prongs)
Which means the plug prongs on one end or the other COULD be HOT!
So .. handle with CARE!

I looked at the article again, and I can't see where it shows a male connector but you raise a good point - there shouldn't be any exposed prongs with power on them. The connector on the side of the house should be a male instead of a female.

 

[DIGGER_DAVE]

I looked at the article again, and I can't see where it shows a male connector but you raise a good point - there shouldn't be any exposed prongs with power on them. The connector on the side of the house should be a male instead of a female.

I guess you and I can call it a "draw." The "extention" connection cable has a FEMALE (house side) plug on the one end; and a MALE (generator) plug on its other end.

But, I'm not sure if you got the "***" mixed on the house side - you said, "The connector on the side of the house should be a male instead of a female."

It is a MALE on the house side; which makes me even more nervous if kids were playing around with the receptical. If the power was present at ALL times, (not clear in the article) someone could get a nasty shock. This would be a situation where a LOCKING cover should be installed on the outside receptical.

 

[the intimidator]

http://millerwelds.com/products/enginedriven/blue_star_series/

go blue 6000 watt's power 13 horse honda 185 amps@20% and 130 amps@60% duty arc welding you cant go wrong with it as it is portable has enough power to run near anything and you can weld if you need more the step up to the bobcat 10'000 watt's 2 alt/gen whatever they are so you can weld and use power too'ls light's ect at the same time and you cant beat the price once you figure in the cost of buying the welder and the genereater when i was looking for a genset last year it came down to a honda and the bluestar and i will tell you the miller was cheaper then the honda was plus i could weld with it i will be a bluestar owner this summer that's for sure and the miller's are abought as reliable as they come

 

[rockwithjason]

What you need is a transfer switch. You can build a set up using a disconnect switch and a small panel but you generally won't save any money that way. Just buy the transfer switch and be done with it.

 

[Spencer Was Here]

I'm thinking I'd likely need about a 5000KW - 6500KW unit.... I'd want to run a frig, a chest freezer, a submersible waterwell pump and a few light bulbs when necessary. I doubt I'd need to weld & run EVERY light during such events....... Does anyone have any suggestions, recommendations, thoughts on this subject?

Thanks in Advance!
RW

Ryan, I have a 7500 watt rated, 10,000 watt surge Dayton brand (Grainger's) generator that I no longer need. It has a 14 HP Brigg's V-Twin w/overhead valves and full pressure lubrication. It has electric start, though it needs a new battery. It starts so easy with the pull cord that I haven't bothered replacing the battery even though they are only about $30. I also bought the optional wheel kit for it to make it easier to move around. There are only 135 hours on the machine and I have maintained it well. This is a contractor grade generator, not the kind you are going to currently find at Home Depot, etc.

I'm not sure where you are at in Michigan, but I'm over near Muskegon. I'd be willing to either deliver it or meet you part way depending on where you live. If you or anyone else is interested in it then respond here or send me a private message. I will take the time to post some pictures if someone is really interested, otherwise I have better things to spend my time on this weekend.

I also have a nice little Honda EU3000i inverter that I am considering selling if anyone is interested in that. The reason I no longer really need these two units is because I have bought a large Lincoln Ranger 10,000 welder/generator and I also now have a smaller Honda EU2000i inverter that will both suit my needs just fine.

Moderators, please feel free to delete this post if it violates the forum rules.

Thanks, Spence

 

[haulna]

I have the same power needs as you. I had a transfer switch wired in and purchased this Yamaha. It has no problem running my 3 HP well pump and other appliances. I also have the option to take it with me when power is needed away from home.

http://www.yamahagenerators.net/yg_d.htm?

 

[BoilermakerFan]

I'm considering to look into obtaining a portable and/or temporary electrical power supply generator that would be used in the event of a power outage. I didn't locate any such discussions when I typed GENERATOR into the "search" box here.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to have it set up so I could turn off my main feed breaker at my house power panel, then via a 220V plug tied into the panel supply, I would plug the generator into it which would in turn supply my house with power?

I'm thinking I'd likely need about a 5000KW - 6500KW unit.... I'd want to run a frig, a chest freezer, a submersible waterwell pump and a few light bulbs when necessary. I doubt I'd need to weld & run EVERY light during such events....... Does anyone have any suggestions, recommendations, thoughts on this subject?

Thanks in Advance!
RW

I plan(ned) to install a large natural gas or military-surplus diesel generator for my house. I have an outdoor, NEMA 3R double-throw saftety switch. It's a 250Vac, 200Amp switch. Basically it's a manual transfer switch, with On-Off-On switch positions. The upper On position is the utility, the lower On position would be the generator. Each local utility is different, so check into your local code. I say this because my local utility/code requires a solid neutral even when on generator power. I have the ability to wire my neutral switched or solid so it wan't a big deal, but I argued that if there was a ground fault in the system, I could end up backfeeding the grid through the neutral (with over 200A of power). I also have the accessory switches and contact blocks for the switch so that when I flip the switch down to generator, it will automatically start the generator and can illuminate a light inside the house to remind me the generator is on... It's not automatic, but we don't take very many vacations and it's only critical to have power when we're actually home, so I saved a lot of money this way.

Well, that was the plan. The reality is, the switch is in my garage still in it's box. The switch is HUGE (it weighs over 70 pounds) and I don't have enough exterior wall space to mount it were it needs to go without running a lot of conduit around a corner of the house which would look unsightly.

The utility company also upgraded our grid since I'm right next to a university. We had straight line winds almost two years ago that wiped out the area, most of my neighbors one block over were without power for 9 days. We lost power for less than 45 minutes. That was the only time in six yers I've been without power for more than 5 minutes. "Knock on wood!"

So... If your interested in a whole-house, manual transfer switch with the optional pieces to hook it up to meet any local code (switched/solid neutral) send me a PM.

 

[Ryan Wilke]

If you or anyone else is interested in it then respond here or send me a private message.

Hi Spencer,

I sent a PM to you.
If you don't get it, let me know..........

Thanks,
RW

 

[Spencer Was Here]

Hi Spencer,

I sent a PM to you.
If you don't get it, let me know..........

Thanks,
RW

Ryan, I just sent you a reply to your PM.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I guess you and I can call it a "draw." The "extention" connection cable has a FEMALE (house side) plug on the one end; and a MALE (generator) plug on its other end.

But, I'm not sure if you got the "***" mixed on the house side - you said, "The connector on the side of the house should be a male instead of a female."

It is a MALE on the house side; which makes me even more nervous if kids were playing around with the receptical. If the power was present at ALL times, (not clear in the article) someone could get a nasty shock. This would be a situation where a LOCKING cover should be installed on the outside receptical.

I went back and re-read the Popular Mechanics article. On the last page of the article, they describe how their cable has a male connector on one end and a female on the other. The male end of the cable plugs into the generator and the female end connects to the house. On the side of the house, they installed "a Hubbell inlet, NEMA L14-20P. This is nothing more than a male plug instead of a receptacle." An L14-20P is a male connector and looks like this:

If the generator cable is not connected to the house, yes the prongs on the connector are exposed if someone lifts up the weather cover. However, the connector isn't energized since it's isolated by the manual transfer switch. The only way it can be energized is if the generator cable is plugged in and the generator is running, and of course then there aren't any exposed parts.

If it was done the other way, with a female receptacle on the side of the house, it would mean the generator cable would have a male connector with exposed prongs on both ends (aka a suicide cord.) If someone started the generator with the cable not connected to the house, it would be energized and potentially hazardous.

 

[Benchloader]

After Rita my Craftsman 5600 (Generac) and a few good extensions cords ran my fridge, upright freezer, a window a/c, a few lamps, a pc, the tv & dvd player. After we got water it also powered the washer. Clothesline is solar powered.

Hardest thing was fuel. roughly 10 gal a day, then the oil changes every 25 hours.

 

[Ryan Wilke]

Well Fellas,

I ended up buying the portable 7500W generator from Spencer. Spencer also included a very nice length of cable to connect the generator to an appropriate connection box. The generator appears to be in excellent shape and started on the second cord pull! Thanks again, Spence!

Now I'll start to gather the parts necessary to "wire in" a user-friendly connection for it. The Pop. Mechanics article was very good and answered many of my questions. Thanks again, Stuart!

Benchloader,
That's a good point regarding having at least 10 gallons of fuel on-hand and some motor oil to boot. I think I'll look for a least 1 or 2 more 5-gallon fuel cans to fill & have on hand as well.

And thanks again to everyone else who took the time to provide their advice and thoughts here!

Until Later,
RW

 

[JohnZ]

JohnZ, now THAT'S the real deal. Independance!
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the operating costs of your system running 24/7 vs. what you pay for the cost of your utility service

I really have no idea what the operating cost is, although the spec sheet says it requires the equivalent of 288,000 BTU at full operating load (about twice what our furnace requires). When Edison craps out, it's usually only for an hour or two, maybe four or five (except for the 3-day regional outage in 2003); frankly, when it's 5 below zero outside, I don't care what it costs in natural gas consumption to operate it - I have heat, light, and full functionality in both the house and garage, and life goes on as normal - all we have to do is re-set the digital clocks, and we don't even have to be home.