Any scratch TIG weldors here?

[stioc]

Between the mig and stick I never felt I needed any other welders. But for about $70 to convert my stick to a scratch TIG I decided to see what all the fuss is about. Well I'll be darned this TIG stuff is fun

Until tonight I knew almost nothing about TIG and scratch TIG so everything from unpacking and putting together the TIG torch, grinding the tungsten, hooking up the Argon etc all happened a few hours ago. For practice all I had was some 16ga sheet and a very eager me

Ran a few flat beads to get the hang of the scratch start. I thought I was going to need more tungsten than the filler rod lol. After a few experiments I started to get the hang of it and started adding filler metal. I still have long ways to go but so far I'm liking TIG especially the clean burn part (no spatter and smoke filled garage).

Time to go get some more scrap metal to practice.

Anyone else doing old-school scratch start or has the rest of the world moved on to the fancy inverters and HF TIG already?

 

[Jlarson]

We still scratch start quite a bit doing field work off of our engine drives. Roots and hot passes on pipe mainly. Pretty common in industrial work.

 

[stioc]

@Jlarson, that's pretty cool and what I've heard that in the field and for sanitary stainless scratch start is still the most common method.

I was wondering if others here are doing it so we I can ask some newbie questions like what works best start the arc. I tried rocking the cup and that worked 50% of the time without sticking. I tried a straight quick up and down tap and I think that worked better for me. I'm thinking a sharp pointy tungsten is probably easier to start with?

Also I noticed the amps stated on the machine are way underrated for TIG. For stick I never noticed the settings being too off but for TIG I put a clamp meter and found out that at 60amps it was putting out 90amps. Perhaps because TIG has lower resistance than a stick electrode.

 

[readhead]

That's how I learned as a sheet metal apprentice. I didn't know there were pedals until I moved to another shop a couple of years latter. We used Miller Thunderbolts running on 120 volts. I would just scratch toward the puddle, find my line and go. That was before auto darkening hoods.

 

[thejimmy]

Been welding for 40 years, only a few times did I use scratch start. Well we're all in different fields of welding that's just what I've experienced.

Hope you continue learning, one day you'll have a chance to try HF and a pedal, in the shop it's the way to go. (or least from my POV)

 

[OccupantRJ]

Scratch tig is all I have known for the last 38 years. Here is a thread I started on the subject back in 2010. I have welded some fairly thin stuff with mine over the years using silicon bronze filler rod.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65000

 

[dr_clyde]

Lots of modern welders have Lift-arc, which is like a modified scratch start. It senses when you touch and lift, and adjusts the amps accordingly. I use it all the time. Very, very handy for large weldments and out of position work. I also use it for all my pipe welding.

I've done my fair share of scratch start with a valve torch too though. Takes some practice to start clean and snap out without leaving arc marks everywhere.

Lots of welds out there done with scratch start.

 

[sberry]

Nuke was all scratch but that was in the early 80's. I never did see the actual welding machines. I regret not hunting them up and seeing them. They had terminals on each floor in the auxiliary building and various places in the containment where it wasn't laid out in conventional floors so much.
The lead was huge and they actually issued you a tool box, chest, simple box about 18x18x24 or so and a remote which was about half that size. It had huge resistors, big lead, 4/0 to it and the lower you set it the hotter it got. Guys made ovens out of them, short it out and adjust the current for the heat.
The terminal had lead sockets on it, right side for reverse for stick and left for straight tig. Valve on the torch for gas, could have the helper/partner adjust it if wanted but no foot or finger control. A forum guy said they now use Maxstar, makes sense, so much cheaper and easier, cost about the same or less than the remote we used then and 12 cord instead of 4/0 lead.
Someone had it all figured out, grinding was done air, just add a t anywhere you could and add another hose. Such a managerie every once in a while they would strip it back. Lights were 120v on strings but 10 wire and twist lock, 3 way pig tails and 30a. For sticks were issued paperwork every day, then went to the rod trailer, got a oven the put some rods in, they were already hot, took it to your work area and found somewhere to plug it in.
They used ****** Chemtron Atom Arc rods, had to be super fussy on starts or get porosity, must have cost millions in repairs and it made a guy very disciplined. The positions were very cramped, tight, blind, some mirror work and even 2 mirrors and 3 bends in a rod. Burn an inch off each, 25 rods to go 3 inches sometimes. Only salvation was time was on our side, no one in a hurry.
Place was too small and cramped, had a **** load of stuff added since the original design.

 

[sberry]

They had a couple stick tests and a whole load of tig, small, big pipe, instrument tubing, I heard about 30. At first a guy figured it was good to get several but it all paid the same and more you got the harder, I think they had pipe in corner mirror test if I recall.
Scatch tig carbon and stainless. You could bench build some assembly but some it in place with so much interference couldn't see across a small room.
Wish I had a few pics.

 

[PoorOwner]

if you run out of filler rod I have seen people just cut some wire from a mig wire spool for thinner sheet metal, 0.035 or thicker

 

[jsaw]

30 years ago I was taught how to use a carbon in the electrode holder to strike an arc, and to use everdur (silicon bronze) to join metal.
I used the method to attatch body panels on a truck.it did not warp them too badly.

The teacher that taught me said that the method was used to join galvanized steel because it did not get hot enough to burn the galvanizing

 

[Jlarson]

I strike with my filler rod a lot, takes some practice to get the hang of.

All of my suitcase TIGs are either lift arc or HF, my two shop machines are HF but we still use the scratch setup outside a lot.

I just did job, i should have taken some pics of but the weather was getting crappy, were we put two halves of a 5' diameter horizontal tank back together, TIG open root and flux fill and cap. Beveled the halves and hooked a TIG adapter to the cables and went at it.

 

[stioc]

That's how I learned as a sheet metal apprentice. I didn't know there were pedals until I moved to another shop a couple of years latter. We used Miller Thunderbolts running on 120 volts. I would just scratch toward the puddle, find my line and go. That was before auto darkening hoods.

That's cool. I didn't know the Thunderbolts came in the 120v variety too.

Been welding for 40 years, only a few times did I use scratch start. Well we're all in different fields of welding that's just what I've experienced.

Hope you continue learning, one day you'll have a chance to try HF and a pedal, in the shop it's the way to go. (or least from my POV)

Lots of modern welders have Lift-arc, which is like a modified scratch start. It senses when you touch and lift, and adjusts the amps accordingly. I use it all the time. Very, very handy for large weldments and out of position work. I also use it for all my pipe welding.

I've done my fair share of scratch start with a valve torch too though. Takes some practice to start clean and snap out without leaving arc marks everywhere.

Lots of welds out there done with scratch start.

Thanks, yeah after sticking the tungsten to work piece I can see why the lift arc or HF is so much more common nowadays. Once I get going it's actually not too bad.

Scratch tig is all I have known for the last 38 years. Here is a thread I started on the subject back in 2010. I have welded some fairly thin stuff with mine over the years using silicon bronze filler rod.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65000

That's neat RJ. I was surprised how easily I could weld 16ga even as a complete newbie without burning through the metal. Just need more practice, especially establishing the arc.

They had a couple stick tests and a whole load of tig, small, big pipe, instrument tubing, I heard about 30. At first a guy figured it was good to get several but it all paid the same and more you got the harder, I think they had pipe in corner mirror test if I recall.
Scatch tig carbon and stainless. You could bench build some assembly but some it in place with so much interference couldn't see across a small room.
Wish I had a few pics.

Yeah it's kind of fun to step back in time and appreciate how things used to be before they got easier.

if you run out of filler rod I have seen people just cut some wire from a mig wire spool for thinner sheet metal, 0.035 or thicker

Haha, good tip, thanks. I'm pretty stingy with it right now so I'm using it all up lol

I strike with my filler rod a lot, takes some practice to get the hang of.

All of my suitcase TIGs are either lift arc or HF, my two shop machines are HF but we still use the scratch setup outside a lot.

I just did job, i should have taken some pics of but the weather was getting crappy, were we put two halves of a 5' diameter horizontal tank back together, TIG open root and flux fill and cap. Beveled the halves and hooked a TIG adapter to the cables and went at it.

Yeah I tried the filler rod method and it just stuck to the tungsten...yep, I know, more practice

It's been a fun addition and I can see myself potentially upgrading to HF or lift arc with AC/Alum welding capability in the future. TIG seems great for garage bench work.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Cool, way to jump in head first! I seemingly still use as much tungsten as filler rod.......

Really though, once you get more comfortable with Tig, you won't reach for the Mig very often. Get pickled and oiled material and clean everything with acetone and life will be much easier.

 

[readhead]

Thunderbolts don’t come in 120 volts. They are transformer machines that had 120 plugs on them. I’m not entirely sure what was done to them but it worked and we could go a lot lower on amps for light material. We did a lot of stainless equipment work and finding 240 in an existing kitchen without unplugging something was unlikely. The variety of machines we have now was unheard of 45 years ago.

 

[stioc]

Cool, way to jump in head first! I seemingly still use as much tungsten as filler rod.......

Really though, once you get more comfortable with Tig, you won't reach for the Mig very often. Get pickled and oiled material and clean everything with acetone and life will be much easier.

Haha, yeah everything I know has been by way of jumping in head first. No regrets ever. Except when I start cheap then end up upgrading later and in the process spend more than I could've have had I bought the better stuff to start with

Yeah even though Mig is fast and stick is portable and doesn't care for rust/paint etc with the right rod but you're right once I get good at TIG I think it'll be my preferred welding method for bench work for sure

Found a piece of 1/8" plate burned a few filler rods running 6" beads. The ones that look the best seem to be wetted out, which usually means too hot but lowering the amps make the beads too cold and I spend more time heating up the metal by going slow.

I think for 1/8" may be I should move up to the 3/32" rods and tungsten instead of 1/16"?

 

[kazlx]

Scratch is fine. I did a bunch of stuff with it when I first started. I bought one of those Thermal Arc 95s on Craigslist and used it for about a year after having only used mig for years. I was hooked. You're seriously welcome to come over and just burn some rod on the Syncrowave if you want.

This was all scratch.

 

[stioc]

Scratch is fine. I did a bunch of stuff with it when I first started. I bought one of those Thermal Arc 95s on Craigslist and used it for about a year after having only used mig for years. I was hooked. You're seriously welcome to come over and just burn some rod on the Syncrowave if you want.

This was all scratch.

Awesome, thanks for the offer. Looks like you had that Thermal Arc all dialed in! Looking at that I have long ways to go.

I just looked up Thermal Arc 95s...looks like they are lift-arc start units? Scratch is more ancient yet haha

After several beads I realized my flowmeter is in LPM not CFH so I was blasting the weld with a lot of argon...what a noob!

 

[kazlx]

If I remember, it may have worked both ways, but you might be right. It's been a lot of years since I used that machine. It was enough to get me hooked. But made me realize that having a pedal would be nice.

 

[stioc]

If I remember, it may have worked both ways, but you might be right. It's been a lot of years since I used that machine. It was enough to get me hooked. But made me realize that having a pedal would be nice.

Oh man exactly the same thing here. Love the TIG, but feeling the push and pull between wanting something modern vs. my minimalistic nature of doing it the hard way and hanging on to my transformer machines lol

I've been secretly eyeing the AHP, PrimeWeld and Eastwood TIG...all similar 200amp class machines, all are HF with aluminum capability and under $800 - but that's most likely a next year purchase.

Which syncrowave do you have? 250? they're the big daddy been around forever deal right?

 

[kazlx]

Yea, I have a Sync 250. Watercooled, CK torch. I like the water cooled torches just for the size difference. I've thought about replacing, mainly for size and features, but I don't weld nearly as much as I used to, so it seems kind of silly. The AHP always gets good reviews, but I think if I bought new, I'd just buy the HTP 221. It's basically a Dynasty at half the price, but I've literally never read a bad review. I've dealt with HTP on several occasions and they have been nothing short of exceptional. They have sales a few times a year, one usually right around Father's Day.

 

[stioc]

Yeah I have a HTP plasma cutter but as a home gamer an AHP is more my budget.

I did order a few TIG goodies yesterday that I'm hoping should help:

1. TIG gloves
2. TIG finger
3. Stubby gas lense kit
4. Cheater glasses for my new Viking helmet (getting old ***** lol)