Anybody still supporting Craftsman

[JBrew227]

If you guys want to support Americans who probably need the money, appreciate it, and will likely spend it in your area buy good used tools at the local flea market. Chinese **** is taking over here for one reason. Because people are buying it. Yeah it really is that simple.

It really is and the scary part is most people dont realize it really is this simple.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Sears is not priced high, its rock bottom.

Yep.. I have always thought of Craftsman as a John Q. Homeowner ,
bargain line of tools... There is nothing expensive about a Craftsman socket set or RP wrenches..... Reasonably priced tools for that bargain price is what lured many people into Sears... The Baseball, Apple Pie, and USA Craftsman tools tradition maybe helped their sales in the past?? Craftsman has been a household name for many families..... The good old days???

 

[PugetDude]

I will not buy any Craftsman hand tool not made in the USA.

I have no interest in their ""imported"" hand tool line, and have found SOME of their latter USA produced tools to be trash, so will limit my Craftsman purchases to USA sockets.. But I really don't need any more sockets, either

If you guys want to support Americans who probably need the money, appreciate it, and will likely spend it in your area buy good used tools at the local flea market. Chinese **** is taking over here for one reason. Because people are buying it. Yeah it really is that simple.

"For the period ended Aug. 3, Sears Holdings Corp. lost $194 million, or $1.83 per share. That compares with a loss of $132 million, or $1.25 per share, a year earlier. Excluding one-time charges, it lost $1.46 per share."

Cause and Effect...

 

[brit road garage]

i bought a 174 piece craftsmen set from costco last month and every last piece is usa made

 

[85camaro]

Too many COO issues with way too many tools. It's exclusively Snap on for me these days.

 

[whyNick?]

Re: Anybody still supporting craftsman

simple logic, we live in a world of idiots in 2013, 50 years from now those idiots that managed to live will be old idiots, they just disguise with with whimsical charm. we are on the right side of the bell curve of evolution.

Yes, but maybe by 2063 we'll have finally resolved the debate about Craftsman COO.

 

[m.b.0331]

Re: Anybody still supporting craftsman

Thank you for your service, sir. People like you make me thankful for being American!

You are very welcome!

This thread reminds me of the last few times I've gone to Sears with my dad. He'd pick something up off the shelf, check to see where it was made, and if it was foreign, put it back on the shelf and mutter some comment along the lines of "This country's gone to hell in a handbasket." It was kind of comical but got me thinking about why he, and now I, feel that way in regards to Craftsman tools.

That feeling is not nostalgia for the "good old days" when everything was American made, nor was it a thought that Chinese tool quality is subpar to American (Craftsman officials assure us that the quality is equal).

It is a feeling of disgust directed toward the corporate bigwigs. The way I see it, the only reason to manufacture tools in China is so the few at the top make more money. Chinese workers are paid poor wages, and environmental regulations are nonexistent, compared to those in America. I guess I can't blame a person for wanting to make more money, but when it comes at the expense of American workers and the environment, it really disgusts me.

I guess the corporate folks would say they manufacture tools overseas now to allow for low, competitive prices for consumers. But we really need to think about the greater cost of these low prices.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Anyone who experienced a Sears black Friday rush last night knows that people don't care about COO as much as we on Garage Journal do! The items were at peoples price points and therefore items were sold.

 

[jjjrmx5]

I will, but I will also cherry-pick as I have always done.

Used C'man at the fleas and garage sales all day long.

Hard line tools as long as the quality is still there.

I'm not a C3 nor C'man power tool fan since the 80's when the quality started to deminish.

Instead of all-encompasing for most hand tools from A-Z as a quality seller, Sears is now now a hunt and peck style of purchase for me.

It's not ALL ****, but the QC , quality and design vs. the price certainly has not been in favor of the consumer in many many years for many items.

I hope they survive. I really do.

 

[bwringer]

So where in the world did the old man in the OP get the idea that Craftsman hand tools have a "no questions asked" replacement policy?

 

[Stooge]

No i dont support craftsman, but to be fair, i was never a big fan of craftsman before the move. I think the only pieces i have in my box in my shop are most of a set of 1/4&3/8 torx bit sockets, ( us made but they are soft and dont really get used) and a 1/2" drive 17"breaker bar and donated all of my cman us made sockets to my father. I did buy a 1/2 to 3/8 adaptor that was non us made probably a year ago and i snapped it tightening a shock bolt. first bolt it had been used on and was on a breaker bar, strictly because of space limitations, not for leverage, and was only being tightened with an sk ratcheting wrench. I decided that would be my last purchase, its still in my center console but it wasnt worth the gas driving back to warranty it for another disappointing piece, where its us made counterpart had lasted me years before being misplaced.

 

[jjjrmx5]

So where in the world did the old man in the OP get the idea that Craftsman hand tools have a "no questions asked" replacement policy?

Well, that IS the Sears/C'man handtool policy as far as "I" know it and is on most every hand tool they make.

Power tools, no.

C'man hand tools, yes.

If it says C'man you get either a new one, a "deemed equal" replacement (or rebuilt ratchet swap out for ratchets) or a store credit.
No questions asked.

I;ve never had a question asked in decades for any return I have had at a store. None.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

Some took the OP the wrong way. There are 20 yr old dumb asses, and 70 yr old dumb asses. I will say I've always respected my elders, but lately my confidence in a their wisdom has been shaken. My default will always be to respect, however. The old guy in question has likely just checked out and is blindly following the brand. But hey, CM has been good to him.

I still buy Craftsman if USA.

 

[Stokes_]

Bought a USA made screwdriver set for $11 at costco the other day. I will say that I'll never buy Chinese Craftsman though. Never.

 

[skulldrinker]

I can remember back in the day when I had my 'craftsman' blinders on. (70's & 80's) I looked at no other catalog. I don't like how they muddied up the name by adding import to it. If they wanted imports they should of chosen a new name for that line and left Craftsman be Craftsman. All would have been right in the world if they'd had done that. I think that's called 'mud-tooling'

 

[mikegt4]

I saw an interview of Calvin McDonald, former CEO of Sears Canada, on a business news show the other night. He said that Sears is in a Liquidation mode. Real Estate is it's valued asset.

 

[CWP1616L]

I support the American companies that make the tools for Craftsman - like Ullman, Western Forge, and Stride-Imperial. I don't support the department store that owns the brand name.

 

[foreverfalcon40]

I really do believe in USA made tools and tools from certain countries. China does make good tools, I have a Blue Point Pliers kit (Reg Size and Mini) that has served me well in my Road box that I bought another set to keep in my home box. If I were to buy SO x3 that is 300-400 just in pliers (only three in the set). Chinaman is just down right awful! I have near 1,000 USA Cman tools. I have 3 boxes and all of them have the foundation of the 255 piece tool kit. About 95% of my CMan tools are COO USA with the exception of Rebranded Knipex Cobras, Hose Clamp Pliers (France), & my Chinaman Rivet Gun (Exploded on my 2x so far in a few months as well as the magnetic trays). I put my Cman Hammers Blow for Blow against my BluePoint USA Hammers they all hold up well. I will still stand behind USA made Craftsman and just spent about $30 today on USA Stuff. I purchased another Cman Pro Pick Set, 6 or 7 Piece Long Hex Ball Socket Set, 2 Punch Holders. If it is made in the USA it is for me. What upsets me is when I my Cman Industrial iimpact sockets break or wear out I will have to warranty them out for Chinaman. When the time comes (I hope not) I will be looking into another brand...SO b/c the guy is here once a week compared to WIlliams where I have to send it out & pay for shipping on my dime.

I don't give 2 shits what kind of technician you are...if you take your job seriously you will obtain good quality tools. I have a fellow technician has a tool cart filled with HF tools and it is down right insulting that we wear the same uniform. I want nothing to do with him (when it comes asking for help...he is senior to me in years and rank) I have had to lend him tools b/c he broke his! I believe if youtake your job/profession/project seriously you will take your tools purchases as well. You are employed in the USA so use USA, it is like these illegal/legal VERY HARD TO TELL NOW A DAYS b/c the legals can't SPEAK ONE WORD OF ENGLISH...it is insulting and mind boggling.

Due to my thrifty ways I purchase a lot of my tools second hand. You name the brand I have it (Cresent, Proto, Williams, SK, Mac, Matco, Utica, Diamond Alloy). My Cman USA will perform and I trust them just as much. Chinaman being evolved it is forcing a lot of people to look el$$$ewhere. There is no way in hell I could have amassed my tool set ups if I had to start with another brand. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I WILL PUT ANOTHER TOOL KIT TOGETHER WITH CHINAMAN not even my road box. But if I had to I will...having good tools goes hand in hand with good mechanical. You can have all the skills in the world but when that tool breaks or is mis manufactured your mechanics are useless.


OFF RANT
Darwinisn, this country is so *** BACKWARDS with equality and help for all it is killing us. Darwinisn: Survival of the Fittiest. This country will help those who need it for the rest of their life. This low life POS unfortunately will pro-create and adds another LOW LIFE POS to the cycle. If the government regulated and cut people off after a certain deadline with no exceptions. These suckers will A pony up or B die. If they die so will their bad habbits and that is OK with me! How can people with special needs hold a job but people who can interact in a normal atmosphere not? Is the job to beneath them? Doesn't pay enough? STOP OUTLIVING your needs!

END RANT

If Sears does tank someone needs to buy the CMAN name back and bring it back home. Can you imagine a Craftsman tool truck? If Gearwrench can do it so can anyone.

I will buy USA Cman as long as it is around, if I wanted Chinaman **** I would go to HF, HD, and or Lowes or the local $1 store.

 

[92GreenYJ]

I'm at the point in my life that I want good tools in my boxes, at least for common and heavy use items. I will still buy USA craftsman if I see it at sears and I will, as others have said, buy some of their power tools. (My shop vac and weed eater for instance, or my router and table)

Fortunately for me I have a little thrift store down the street from my house. They are one of those that buys storage units and such. Family run. They always have a bunch of tools for sale for great prices. I go in there about every other week with my list of missing sockets (damn Hansen trays showing me how many sizes I am missing) and will sort thru the trays and trays of sockets they have. Yes there is a lot of Taiwan and China junk, but lots of Proto, old USA CRaftsman, etc. I even got a Snap On pry bar for 15 bucks there on Wednesday

 

[nicksnothereman]

I have to make at least one ignorant comment tonight. Honestly, it might've been the case that the old craftsman hand tools were probably TOO WELL MADE (for the price). The guys that have been using them for a while probably know this. Should a set of 20 dollar sockets last a lifetime? Nah.

I think there are guys like me that if they (truly) abuse something they'll just replace it instead of using a warranty. If anything, sears was probably late to the party when it came to offshoring suppliers though honestly, chinese made tools are somewhat better than they used to be; for most users this is more than enough for any project they intend to throw at them. If retail prices go down, it's good for them.

The real issue in my head is that most of these other brands (mainly us) has good retail availability. You could have a consumer line and a professional line (such as sk or even stanley proto) side by side in store and everyone would be fairly happy.

 

[sberry]

I agree they were too good for the price. They wanted to keep going down instead of sucking up under SK.

 

[Banjorear]

I'll still occasionally buy a new Craftsman tool, but it MUST be made in the USA. I won't even consider a tool made in china, regardless if it's Craftsman branded or any other brand.

Jim C.

Same here. I actually just bought that large wrench set (26 I think) yesterday b/c out the entire stack, only one was made in the USA. I thought you can't go wrong for $37.

 

[Pumpman1968]

Re: Anybody still supporting craftsman

Careful with the word "all" and describing all 20-something men as you did above. Your generalization has a lot of backing and I see it myself and feel the way you do, sometimes, too.

But think about all the 20-something Afghanistan and Iraq War vets. No way in hell do we want to be lumped in with the above stereotype, nor do we fit in with it. We're in college or the workforce now and are more than capable to run this country when the time comes. We can find jobs, and we WANT to work. We're professional and have experience leading, serving, and just busting our asses in general.

No way am I offended by the stereotype of the weak, lazy, videogame-playing jack*** 20-something. Just remember that not everyone is like this...

Absofeckinlutely the exception! Glad you were not offended as this was NOT the intention. You guys are, unfortunately, few and far between.

 

[Pumpman1968]

Re: Anybody still supporting craftsman

To all those that are just sure the younger generations are useless, lazy, and degenerate, don't forget that that is exactly what your parents thought of you. Were they right?

I'm sure there would be a lot of offence taken if I were to assert something like "All men over 60 should get the hell out of the work force because they are old and useless know-it-alls that accomplish nothing. Stop sucking the system dry."

Is this an accurate statement for a few individuals? Sure it is. I have worked with a few. Is it true by and large? Absolutely not. The knowledge and experience possessed in the collective brains of those a little on the grey side is a national treasure that must be passed on or lost. So pass it on, or be content in the knowledge that it will be lost.

The young and inexperienced are just that: young and inexperienced. At some point, everyone was young and inexperienced, even the laureates on this board. That is not a character flaw.

I know my parents didn't think I was lazy.

I am not a betting man, but, I would wager a weeks pay that the majority of the guys on here grew up exactly as I did. When we were young, we worked on our bikes.......then onto motorcycles (or ANYTHING with an engine and wheels)........then onto cars.

We got outside, got dirty, climbed the hills, built forts and played ball.

When I was young we cut firewood, bailed hay, mowed grass and shoveled snow.

With the exceptions pointed out, youth today have no social skills, can't speak or spell the American language.........let alone proper English.......and have to be constantly externally stimulated to the point that imagination is lost.

I see young men everyday that SHOULD NOT be allowed to hold a screwdriver because they might poke themselves in the head. Remember the post about the metric flat head screwdriver........really not all that funny when you stop and think about it.

Sure.......when we were young, we lacked experience. What I see today in young men is that they could care less about gaining that experience. As I said, there are exceptions, but, what I see is an overwhelming majority of mouth breathing self imposed idiots that aren't smart enough to turn their hat around to keep the sun out of their eyes...........

 

[Davefr]

Re: Anybody still supporting craftsman

The way I see it, the only reason to manufacture tools in China is so the few at the top make more money.

The Sear's financial data sure reflects this doesn't it

There's only one reason and that's because the US consumer has a love affair with cheap Chinese goods. There's nothing a retailer would rather do then sell high end but demand would drop to nearly zero.

Retailers/manufacturers are pretty good at trying to give consumers what they want. And they want cheap goods from China.

 

[Agentwho]

I know I'm going to get bashed for saying this but I do put the China Craftsman stuff in my toolbox. It does make me sad that almost all of their tools are not made here in the US anymore. Believe me I wish they were but I don't have the cash flow to be picky right now. The quality isn't really that bad, Its not as if they come just fall apart in your hands and to warrenty one just takes a trip to the local Sears. The sad trueth is I would rather buy some decent China tools than go into debt with the Snap On guy.

 

[Zrxpilot]

Nothing wrong with Craftsman tools. I've got 90% of a 250 piece set I bought nearly 25 years ago. They have served me well. I don't wrench for a living but do way more in my garage than 99% of the people I know. Its been a long time since I have had to borrow a tool from anyone.


Do the sockets wear out? Yes. specially if you put them on a 1/2" impact. I've replaced several over the years. Do the ratchets break? Yes, specially if you put a breaker bar on them. Did they take them back? Yep. No questions asked. If you only have "x" amount of tool money to spend, it doesn't make sense to blow your entire allotment of tool money on only a few quality tools. I would rather have everything I need and buy a new whatever once ever blue moon.

 

[HDMac07]

Davefr and many others have made great points. Retailers across the board would much rather sell high end, quality products if the demand was there. There will always be cheap tools, cheap cars, cheap guns, and the list goes on. I will never hold it against a young mechanic for buying Chinese Craftsman products to get started with. Anyone who STARTED with Mac, Snap-On, Williams, SK and so on were more than likely handed their tools from a relative who no longer used them but wanted them to have a good home. Luckily, I came from a family full of blue collar workers who were kind enough to donate their hard-line tools to me - wrenches, sockets, and so on.

I try not to bash anyone for buying any tool that is using it to make a living or simply keep food on the table. Many folks forget that some truly do have to buy and use what they can to get by. If I have an extra USA tool laying around that doesn't get used often, I give it to a fellow tech who can get more use out of it. Being a tool-snob makes a man no better than those who intentionally buy cheap tools just because they are cheap. If a tool works, it works, and I pay much more attention to the work ethic of those around me than to how many dual 80 ratchets they can fit in their double stacked KRA. Don't get me wrong, I have my fair share of truck tools, but realistically.. the tools don't make the tech, but a good tech can benefit from quality tools.

I hate that Craftsman has gone over-seas at least as much as anyone on this board, but just for the holiday season I hope that we can all look beyond the COO and think about the youngsters out there getting their first set of wrenches for Christmas or the husband who'd rather fix his own car than drain the savings to have someone at a dealer - like me - fix it. It's a shame that they can't continue to produce affordable tools in the USA, and although I won't purchase many more Craftsman products, they are the best that some can manage!

 

[finn]

I keep seeing these threads bashing Craftsman, and just don't understand the Hate.

Craftsman has always been a sort of high end homeowner / hobbiest product, priced so the casual and even semi professional consumer can have access to a product that will get the job done.

They never really competed with the likes of SnapOn.

Their combination wrenches cost a little over a dollar each on sale yesterday, and even the Professional series were around $2.00. That , and they still look to me that they will get the job done for the target market.

You can't even get a cup of coffee for that (and Coffee isn't American made either).

Sears is under no obligation to produce here.

Our televisions, electronics and just about everything else is sourced worldwide, and why do we expect hand tools to be any different?

 

[TJJP77]

I think what started this race to the bottom for Craftsman was the constant sales and absurdly low prices they advertise. I also realize that they may not have much of a choice but to cave in.

I remember buying my first "big" set from them back in the 1980's and they rarely put things on sale with the exception of a few things like small screwdriver sets. I think I paid full price for my set, but I needed it and couldn't wait around to see if they were going to have a sale. I actually ordered out of the catalog and had to wait for it to come in to the store - they didn't stock the set I wanted in store.

Fast forward to today, and with the exception of a few specialty tools, 85%-90% of my tools are Craftsman. Of those Craftsman tools, 98% of them are US made. It depresses me to walk into a Sears store now and see what they have done. I'll still buy US Craftsman stuff (if it's still made here) if I need it and don't have it, but like others, I will not buy Chinese Craftsman tools. Other than the raised panel ratchets and their propensity to fail, I've never really had a problem with any of my Craftsman tools breaking - but then I always use the right tool for the job and don't abuse them.

 

[yaidunno]

Sears is under no obligation to produce here.

This is very true, and on the same note, nobody is being forced to purchase Craftsman tools.

The only problem i see is warranting USA made tools with Chineese ****. If i pay the premimum for a USA tool and it gets replaced with a lesser quality piece, i have a problem with that. As such, i am not spending another dollar on the brand. My sockets will be replaced with SK because im sick of the cheap chrome flaking off. The remaining few Cman tools i own will get used untill they fail or will be sold.

TV's and electronics are an entirely different market (obviously). They will be out dated and presumeably replaced in 5 years time. Hand tools should last a lifetime, no questions asked.

 

[bwringer]

So where in the world did the old man in the OP get the idea that Craftsman hand tools have a "no questions asked" replacement policy?

Well, that IS the Sears/C'man handtool policy as far as "I" know it and is on most every hand tool they make.

Power tools, no.

C'man hand tools, yes.

If it says C'man you get either a new one, a "deemed equal" replacement (or rebuilt ratchet swap out for ratchets) or a store credit.
No questions asked.

I;ve never had a question asked in decades for any return I have had at a store. None.

I've gotten unwarranted interrogations and received far inferior replacements for broken tools several times at various Sears stores.

Actual store practices and experiences vary, I guess.

 

[NWphotog]

Wow. Sears never promised to manufacture in the US in perpetuity. They have been one of the last to move tool production overseas. I wonder why I don't see similar threads about over priced Gearwrench tools produced in Asia but priced like USA? Snap On's Bluepoint? Oh yeah they NEVER did produce in the USA. Asia can and does produce quality products just as US can and does produce ****. You want the most expensive tools money can buy? Then buy it and get over your emotions. A lot of you sounds like love sick little girls that have been wronged. Get OVER it!

 

[skinnymoose]

I wont purchase any more Craftsman....IMO it`s just turned into an over priced Harbor Freight and the fact that they kind of screwed everyone on their warranty with the move to China kind of rubs me the wrong way...I hope they go out of business.

 

[TJJP77]

Snap On's Bluepoint? Oh yeah they NEVER did produce in the USA.

Not true...I have a few Blue Point tools (feeler gauges, tire pressure gauge, etc.) that were made in the USA. I think originally Blue Point was kind of the specialty tool line, like ignition or carburetor tools, then it morphed into the budget/import line over the years.

 

[jjjrmx5]

Not true...I have a few Blue Point tools (feeler gauges, tire pressure gauge, etc.) that were made in the USA. I think originally Blue Point was kind of the specialty tool line, like ignition or carburetor tools, then it morphed into the budget/import line over the years.

Based upon the GJ myriad of info and history, origanally Blue Point sold wrenches and other tools that were not offered by Snap-On. The combining of the two just made the Snap-On tool line and selling model more complete.

It was much later as to when Snap-On took many of the Blue-Point tools in house and offered them as Snap-On making Blue Point the fill-in line.

I have Blue Point ratcheting tap handles that were made by Schroeder and stamped made in Germany, so Blue Point being only Asian sourced low end tools is far from accurate.

Even to this day, the BP tools can be a good quality value if bought at the right time. Still lifetime warranty but only for original buyer unless your driver is very helpful. BTDT.

Now back to Sears talk in 3...2...1...go!

 

[NWphotog]

Not true...I have a few Blue Point tools (feeler gauges, tire pressure gauge, etc.) that were made in the USA. I think originally Blue Point was kind of the specialty tool line, like ignition or carburetor tools, then it morphed into the budget/import line over the years.

Sorry, I was speaking of Gearwrench when I wrote that. The point still stands though. If everything from Asia is **** why would Snap-On dirty their hands with it? Obviously that old song and dance isn't true.

 

[-->]

Most don't know but sears has a new line called craftsman industrial. All of their industrial line tools are American made.

Id like to know more about this actually. Is this rebranded cman professional ? Those were pretty good.

 

[928'er]

Re: Anybody still supporting craftsman

Retailers/manufacturers are pretty good at trying to give consumers what they want. And they want cheap goods from China.

Sometimes you simply don't have any choice.

A year, or so, ago my faithful Bosch toaster bit the dust and I went looking for a replacement. I discovered that you can no longer buy a toaster in this country that isn't made in China - unless you're willing to spend big bucks for a commercial unit from a restaurant supply house.

Try buying a shower curtain that isn't made in China....

 

[HighwayTrout]

Re: Anybody still supporting craftsman

Sometimes you simply don't have any choice.

Try buying a shower curtain that isn't made in China....

http://madeinusaforever.com/codushcuusam.html


Anyway...
Back on topic. I will continue to buy USA Craftsman tools if the need arises and I happen to be in or near a Sears. Truth to the matter is I rarely need a tool these days. I'm not starting out and don't need a "set" of any kind. Those that are just getting started such as a first time home buyer and the like. Well, they probably won't know any better or care. They see the Cman name and trust it cause it's been around forever. Price and convenience is what motivates most people not COO or quality unfortunately.