@qqzj reading through this figured I'd share a recent diagnose and repair that i recently had on my F150 hopefully will give you a sense of what you might be up against if you try to do this professionally. First off I'm not a professional mechanic but would consider myself and advanced DYIer and have tackled some fairly challenging repairs on my own vehicles over past several years. Recently noticed I was having trouble filling up my fuel tank would only go about 1/2 tank before gas would come out the neck as I was filling it. No codes or drivability issues just couldn't fill the tank without going exceptionally slow at the pump. A few weeks later I got a code and check engine light for something like unable to draw down fuel tank vacuum (it may have been P1450 IIRC but not positive about that). Asked alot of questions and watched a lot of you tube videos and received many various suggestions on what could be causing problem. Purge valve, vent valve, damaged fuel neck, missing fuel neck flapper (my truck doesn't have one but at one point I was trying to see if it somehow became unattached and was partially blocking tank neck), bad gas cap, clogged EVAP canister were all potential possibilities. Rather than just throwing parts at problem I tried my best to diagnose problem. Checked the purge valve and found it to be working properly and put vacuum Guage on it and actuated solenoid through scan tool and confirmed it was working, disassembled the EVAP canister and confirmed it was not clogged (major PITA project), tried my best to confirm nothing was stuck in filler neck, ran grease around fuel cap, reset codes and tried to see of the code came back. Finally had to drop the gas tank and test fuel tank pressure sensor and found it to be bad. The pressure sensor is part of the vent hose assembly that runs from engine bay to tank and back to evap canister. Major project to replace. To top it all off none of the auto supply houses show this part as part of the system I had to go directly to Ford and it was a $300+ assembly. The new part number used a different connector so had to buy a new harness and figure out wiring. At end of the day I tracked down problem and repaired it myself. Had I listened to all the tips it would have potentially cost $1000s to throw parts at it. I'm sure someone with the right subscriptions would have diagnosed issue more quickly but that costs a lot of money in addition to test equipment. Just think about what you might be up against before jumping in. I'm sure this is fairly representative of typical problems you might face on a daily basis if you were doing this professionally. Good luck!
Anyone does mobile auto repair diagnostics?
- Thread starter qqzj
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haveissues
Well-known member
I helped a friend put a ****** in a sentra at my house and it needed to be programed once installed. A guy came to my house with a laptop, hooked it up to the car and the internet, then messaged someone who remotely programmed it. Apparently it was some sort of service that had just about every manufacturers oem software available remotely. He mostly does work for body shops and charged $150 to program it.
richfinn
Well-known member
Quite right, except if your doing mobile auto diagnostics that avenue has most likely already been explored, more often than not the parts cannon has been previously deployed (and then some) and you are the last resort before the vehicle is effectively a write off.
And they want it fast and cheap as the customer is rapidly losing patience.
I've come to the conclusion that trying to sell any kind of "Science" to idiots is a f*cking tough game, as they only have a very basic grasp of consumerism
richfinn
Well-known member
This is what UK guys are using, depending on what programming they do for you they charge you a set fee per job. Obviously good battery support etc. Is a requirement.
richfinn
Well-known member
And mobile sometimes implies roadside. GLWT.Quite right, except if your doing mobile auto diagnostics that avenue has most likely already been explored, more often than not the parts cannon has been previously deployed (and then some) and you are the last resort before the vehicle is effectively a write off.
And they want it fast and cheap as the customer is rapidly losing patience.
I've come to the conclusion that trying to sell any kind of "Science" to idiots is a f*cking tough game, as they only have a very basic grasp of consumerism
richfinn
Well-known member
Very often, you will be outdoors in the rain just to add to the misery
bwringer
Well-known member
You might have a look at a Youtube channel called Pine Hollow Diagnostics; he does pretty much what you're describing.
www.youtube.com
I don't really know what he charges or how the business side of things works. But some of the statements earlier in this thread make sense; he deals with a lot of stuff that's been monkeyed with and hacked up by the parts changer monkeys at the local dealers.
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics
This is the official channel for Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, based in State College, PA. Applying the scientific method and basic principles to automotive diagnostics and repair. Most videos feature live troubleshooting of automotive drivability and electrical problems. Playlists are...
www.youtube.com
I don't really know what he charges or how the business side of things works. But some of the statements earlier in this thread make sense; he deals with a lot of stuff that's been monkeyed with and hacked up by the parts changer monkeys at the local dealers.
richfinn
Well-known member
Even with Ivan's impressive skill level I believe he held on to his day job for a long time, not even sure if he does PHAD full time now!!You might have a look at a Youtube channel called Pine Hollow Diagnostics; he does pretty much what you're describing.
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics
This is the official channel for Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, based in State College, PA. Applying the scientific method and basic principles to automotive diagnostics and repair. Most videos feature live troubleshooting of automotive drivability and electrical problems. Playlists are...
I don't really know what he charges or how the business side of things works. But some of the statements earlier in this thread make sense; he deals with a lot of stuff that's been monkeyed with and hacked up by the parts changer monkeys at the local dealers.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Good diag. Use the purge itself to confirm the sensor can read vacuum, and the smoke machine to confirm positive pressure. Fuel tank pressure sensors can really school you if you're not considering them. Sometimes they're for leak detection, sometimes only for diagnostic of evap system function.
kbeefy
Well-known member
This is hard to explain to people. Diagnostics often require the most expensive technician and the most expensive tools.
Then people don't want to pay for diag. We often quoted double our shop rate for diag, but I rarely charged it.
F diagnosis just clear the code so I can get a better trade in at the dealer.
kbeefy
Well-known member
The Autel stuff is decent enough. I had an Elite, which is very similar to the 908.
If you want a scantool to help yourself and others go for it, but I wouldn't plan on making any money at it.
To add to the list...
Scope
smoke machine
coolant system pressure test set and adapters
Fuel pressure test set
Multimeter
source of wire diagrams
source for factory service manuals
Load tester (I like the old VAT-40, but they're getting hard to find)
I feel like a business where you do basic maintenance on-site or at the parts-store parking lot is a better likelihood of a business that makes money with relatively-minimal risk. Brakes, oil changes, valve cover gaskets, etc. Basic and getting to be really expensive. My boss just paid over $1200 for front pads and rotors ($590) and CV boots ($640) at the Toyota dealership. CV boots are something I'd want to do at a shop with a parts washer, a vise, etc., but nearly $600 for pads/rotors is nuts, and something that could be done for less while still making decent coin.
kbeefy
Well-known member
Chassis ears
Borescope
IR Temp gun
Thermal Camera
Oil pressure test set
backpressure tester
compression tester
leakdown tester
Block test kit
Borescope
IR Temp gun
Thermal Camera
Oil pressure test set
backpressure tester
compression tester
leakdown tester
Block test kit
Look on Freds TDi page... tdiclub.com Many members there with VAGCOM and they're always helping each other out.
The dealer labor is crazy. The price for brake pads and rotors are absolutely gravy train. Relative to that the price for cv joint is not too bad. A new half axle is something like $250. Swapping the old with the new takes some effort.
Well, and boots are a terrible job - getting all the old grease out and new grease back in and not looking like something exploded is a job for people with legit parts washers and stuff I don't have in my garage.
We recently bought a '10 Volvo V70 from a friend. For a car with 196K, it's in damn good mechanical shape and very good cosmetic shape overall. It needed three things - at least one motor mount, front brakes and right CV boots. The parts for motor mounts and brakes are ready to go in my garage. I didn't even bring the car home before dropping it off at the place that has serviced it most of its life to have the boots done. No problem paying those guy their money to do that job.
Anyway, my point is I might have paid somebody to do the plugs (and, as it turned out) the valve cover on my mom's car last week. It's a three-hour round-trip drive, and what took me a decent chunk of time would probably have been a quickie for an experienced wrench who brought a fairly complete set of tools, a small compressor and a few other things I didn't (I brought more tools than I needed just to do plugs almost by accident, which was lucky when I found spark plug wells full of oil...
). I wouldn't have paid shop-money to avoid all that, but...2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
My employer charges MORE for a pad slap than diag. Labor rates keeps rising but not their diag charge. It's worth about 40min right now. So that's what ya get. It should be 1.5x or at least 1:1 with the labor rate, but everyone afraid to spook the public on the phone or at the counter. 450 for pads and rotors? Confidence all day.
As others said, diag quickly becomes a time game. Punt the off the wall cars and get paid nothing or double down and hope you can make the time.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Only works as side work. Once you get a price low enough the cheap asses will pay, there's no money to pay taxes or insurance. Mobile mechanics, cringe, typically are cash only and do subpar slap it together work. If your boss wanted to save money, he could have gone elsewhere to other shops and got a cheaper brake job. Mobile mechanic rates around here are 60% of a real shop on labor. No parts markup. So if the dealer is 100 an hour, you're getting paid 60 to drive through traffic, disassemble and actually figure out what it needs, get the money from the customer, drive to the parts store, drive back, reassemble, test drive.
And everything that ever happens after that is also your fault. Usually I see guys doing the shittiest slap it together work, getting the cash, and bolting. Block the number afterwards. Doesn't seem worth the hassle to me to do brake jobs on the ground with no air and possibly get robbed.
bwringer
Well-known member
... right under the big sign that says "no repair or maintenance here".
Not that I've ever seen this enforced. Or that there's a good way to enforce it. Once they've started, the fastest way to get rid of them is to let them finish.
One of the wildest scenes of chaos I've ever witnessed was a 24-hour Autozone at about 1:30 am. (My wife left the oil cap off her car's engine after an event, and needed the car in the morning.) There are dozens of Autozones all over and around Indianapolis, but for quite a while they designated one location to stay open 24 hours. So out of the entire population of Indianapolis and surrounding counties, every soul with circumstances requiring post-midnight auto repair was there.
It was a warm night, and there was an entire extended family off to one side with a pickup in the air and the transmission lying on the ground. Three men were working on the car, and the ladies were chatting and watching several kids sleeping in portable cribs. They seemed to be the most sane people there. There were at least a dozen others with hoods up and cars in the air attempting major work in the parking lot.
Two guys had a scooter with bad rings but apparently no flashlight, so they were revving the scooter mercilessly right in the entrance where there was a little light, sending huge clouds of white smoke directly into the store. Not sure what they hoped to accomplish in a place with no scooter parts...
Inside were at least 50 tired, sweaty, grumpy people, and one absolute psycho spent at least 30 minutes (or at least the entire time I was there) screaming, cursing, and shrieking at the absolute top of his lungs because they wouldn't give him a free radiator they didn't have. Not sure why they didn't kick him out and/or call the cops; I think everyone in the entire store would have applauded.
Your example just shows how much you can benefit from such a service. If you have access to a decent tool, your journey would be much easier. The final fix is still annoying thou. Watch this
I usually cringe when pads and rotors cross the $200 line combined.
I hope he got more than boots for $640. Entire axles cost less than that.
The chain-shop up the road from my mother quoted her $250 to do pads. Not pads and rotors. Not pads and turned rotors.I usually cringe when pads and rotors cross the $200 line combined.
Pads.
I came and did both with very good-quality components for under $200.
In the BMW world, pads are rotors are pretty much always replaced together. I have no idea if that's a judgement call in the world of Toyota, but since A) it's my mother and B) I had no idea (nor did she) how many miles those rotors had seen beyond the set of pads, it seemed like false economy not to replace them.
I don't know why, but stuff like that pisses me off.
I forget what the quote was on the failed top motor mount that took literally less than 60 seconds to replace, but it was also enough that I replaced all four motor/transmission mounts with decent 3rd-party mounts more than worthy of a 2002 Camry with 170K+ miles. If any of fail to outlast the car (doubtful), I won't mind replacing them.
This is the kind of stuff I'm thinking could easily be done from a truck (or, in my case, my wife's mini-van
).I had that thought too, but (A) he'd already had the work done and (B) the dealership would have charged him even more for that, which is funny since I have to think the actual-labor is non-trivially less. Either way you're R&R'ing the axle, and a lot less fiddling in between and after with the new one. He's not a DIY-type at all, and even though we were good friends before he became my boss, I think he's hesitant to ask for favors these days. (I would have been fine to do brakes and replace an axle - would have pointed him to an indy for the boots...)
I also had boots done recently on the new-to-us Volvo, but the indy shop charged very-reasonable time and shop-rate for it and the parts were pricey-but-not-crazy. So we kept the old axle rolling.
nbpt100
Well-known member
a 24 hour AutoZone? What could turn out bad? I have never heard of a 24 hr Autoparts store. It is a 1st for me. I have heard of a repair Shop that runs 24 hrs. There was a shop(maybe still is there?) in Chicago that fixed taxi cabs and police vehicles that was run 24 hrs a day. They specialized in Crown Vics. There was an interesting piece written up about them, somewhere? Maybe 15 years ago?
I do feel bad for people that do not have a place to work on their cars. I mean like simple repairs. Not pulling a trainsmission. You would think more of the rent a lift places would be more popluar. I understand liabilites. You will get morons that do stupid stuff. I know. Some how they need to be screened out.
I now try to avoid going into an AutoZone. The only place I have every seen a heroin addict removed from the bathroom(In a NH store) by police and EMS. Their prices are pretty high and their stock is down. They will tell you which store has it, as a positive. You hope it is close. My Indy store can get just about anything the same day. They send a truck to the warehouse 3 x a day and they always have stuff. Price wise they are about the same as Autozone, but I do not have to waste time driving around for something I want that day. If I have time it is the usual sources on line.
nbpt100
Well-known member
This is the Corporatizaton of the Auto repair world. Pre-pandemic, A Ford dealer quoted a lady friend of me $425 for Front pads and rotors. I bought mid grade stuff on line and did it for her for under $100.
The managers at these Corporate shops are put under enormous pressure to hit monthly sales goals. Where I live, I have heard plenty of stories where they just lie to women to scare them in to immediate repairs. I am sure there are good ones out there, but in a market that is competitive and plenty of affluent people around it attracts managers lacking integrity. Someone with experience and integrity woul likely not take the job in one of these places.
If you are going to buy local why not keep the profits local? Go to an indy shop, if you can.
bwringer
Well-known member
It was both a brilliant idea and a terrible idea.
Hey, I'm glad they at least tried it. It solved a problem for me once, I got out alive, and it's a fun story. And despite the utter chaos, it apparently solved problems for a lot of people.
Same for 24 hour Walmarts and grocery stores, which appear to have quietly disappeared. They solved a lot of problems for a lot of people, and it's not really their fault the clientele at 2:00 am is so... um, well, interesting.
I was referring to the factory service manuals/checklists/wiring diagrams etc by "service". My scan tool can do everything shown in that video and I did actually use some of those procedures (In my situation I had a different issue with different code). Even with the right scan tool, you also need to have experience with various systems to know what PIDs to monitor and what to look for. As I said I'm not a professional mechanic and this was my first experience with an EVAP problem so there was a bit of a learning curve just figuring out what components are included in the system and what the values should be under various scenarios.
Just an observation in video, he actually was throwing parts at it before actually making a diagnosis (of course he probably already diagnosed issue and ordered the replacement part before making video) but the takeaway on video is plug in the new part and see if it works. I wanted to know with pretty good certainty that the new part would fix the problem before I even ordered it. Turned out to be special order and needed to wait a few days for it you won't have that luxury doing this in somebody's driveway.
Also I have an advantage in that I only need to know what should be happening in my own cars. As a pro, you would need to know what to look for in many different cars. As an example, the Ford ECU has a bleed off resistor internally in the fuel sensor circuit, so my scanner was showing about 5V on control circuit with the sensor attached and I thought, incorrectly, that this was a good sign while looking at live data pids. It wasn't until I disconnected the sensor and saw that it was still showing voltage through scanner on control circuit that I knew that something was up. This is a "quirk" if you will, on how Fords behave. Not sure what would happen had this been a Chevy or Ram but I don't need to know this because I'm not charging anybody for a diagnosis. Certainly would have expected you to know it had I been paying you to make same diagnosis. I'm not trying to discourage you, just offering some other viewpoints which you may or may not have considered before spending a ton of money in pursuit of doing something you may not have background to do competently (I don't mean that disrespectfully just basing on some of your earlier comments in this thread). Anyway, best of luck hope it works out for you.
Wow, got to do front pads and rotors on my son's BMW (2010 328iX) best I could find was $226 for a front kit from FPCEuro and that comes with lifetime warranty on parts so thought it was a no brainer. Under $100? Even with no labor how is that even possible?
You answered your own question. Ford vs BMW.
OK so Ford rotors what $20 each? Pads $20 so $60 in parts? Add tax and shipping call it $70. $29 labor? My spidy senses are tingling...
Wow, would never have expected that. Learn something new everyday. Personally I'll stick with brakes and rotors from a name brand being that they're brakes and all, lol...
I already forget because I didn't care but weren't they Powerstop or something? That is a brand.
bcschief
Well-known member
Where do you get your parts prices?
The AutoZones around me are pretty great (but I live in a bit of a Shangri-la zone - even our scruffy isn't that scruffy compared to some places I've lived). They recently opened up one very close to me, which I find pretty puzzling since I doubt there are very many DIYers very close, but whatever. I'm pretty happy with it, and the store has been well-stocked so far.
The thing with FCP is for consumables their prices are high because they'll hypothetically replace them if you send the used-up pads and rotors to them (at your cost...).
I like them for a lot of things on the Mini/BMWs/Volvo in the family, but generally not that kind of thing. RockAuto great for somethings, AutohausAZ is very good, PelicanParts can be as well.
Generally, I'm going to an Indy for just about everything, and there are some great ones around here (the shop for the BMWs is called "West German Garage" and has been there long enough that the name wasn't nostalgia -
). Before she talked to me, my mother went to the place closest to her house, which is the same place I had tires delivered to from TireRack a while back. My boss has lived overseas so long that he's forgotten how stuff works here. He's a work in progress - lol.I was just pulling them out of thin air trying to figure out how it would be possible to do front brakes and rotors for under $100. Apparently it's possible if you go to RockAuto... personally I wouldn't trust brake parts being sold at those prices but that's just me...
bcschief
Well-known member
On my own car 17 Ford Focus SE Pads $48.99 Rotors $71.49 each that gives you $191.97 for parts and book time for pads and rotors is 1.5 hrs. labor at $75.00 dollars an hour comes to $112.50 labor for a total of $304.47 parts and labor. The parts prices are actually lower than Alldata quotes for parts prices, but I quoted parts prices of Autozones website.
Yeah sounds about right to me I was just questioning another user who said they did the job for under $100 and then somebody else said it was because it was a Ford and not BMW...