Anyone else think the M12 series a bit underpowered???

[Jarhead0408]

I bought the $99 special at HD yesterday and tried them out after work. Yes I fully charged all 3 batteries.

Before even using them on anything I just played around and pulled the trigger on both. To me at least they both seemed really underpowered. They actually sound like my DeWalts in their last 30 minutes of battery life.

However, I went out last night to the shop to see how powerful they really were. The driver/drill seemed slow when drilling in a 4x4 block of wood on the 1st power setting. On the 2nd it did much better, but still seemed to be reluctant. I haven't tried a paddle-bit or driving screws yet. I'm assuming it'll drive a screw just fine though.

The little impact got tried next. I was already figuring on disappointment based on the performance of the driver. Much to my surprise, the impact works pretty well. While I don't have torque specs available, I used the impact with a 1/2" drive adapter to drive loose the wheel studs on my JD F725 mower as well as to loosen the top frame bolts on my 20-ton press. Just for giggles I had tried to loosen the bolts on the press with a wrench initially, and they didn't budge. I also went to the other wheel on the JD and used a long handled ratchet and extension and tried to take the studs out. They loosened up, but it took a grunt to do it.

Overall I feel as if the driver is underpowered, but would be great for the wife to use inside. I could probably use it outside in the shop for spinning out various screws under the hood too.

The impact on the other hand seems to me to be the more useful of the two. I can easily see using it with a socket adapter to work on my Honda's engine, or for spinning out oil/transmission pan bolts. But I do wonder if just getting the M12 ratchet might not be better?

Another member posted this set up here, I'm thinking about returning the $99 set and getting this instead, and later picking up the M12 ratchet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331396399546?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

What do ya'll think? Is the M12 set underpowered for your needs? What will you be using the M12 set for? What do you think about the other set? Who would return this set?

 

[Paco Pena]

You will find the performance likely picks up after a couple charge/discharge cycles. I have bought the M12 fuel tools for my son to use at work as an auto tech. He loves them as do other techs. Compact and lots of grunt. If you need more then get the M18 line. Big difference between the standard versions and the fuel series with the brushless motor.

Paco

 

[Jarhead0408]

You will find the performance likely picks up after a couple charge/discharge cycles. I have bought the M12 fuel tools for my son to use at work as an auto tech. He loves them as do other techs......

Paco

Hmmm, I hadn't thought about that. Does your son have the 1/4" hex impact?

 

[hackwelder]

I bought that set too and love it, very much prefer the smaller size and lighter weight of the 12V tools and they have enough power for many jobs. I do have 18V tools and use them for bigger stuff.
The batteries alone are worth more than $100 and the M12 line is huge so I'd keep the set for that reason if nothing else.

 

[mikedprince]

I have several pieces of the M12 and absolutely love them for the DIY stuff I do around the house. On occasion, I have the break out the DeWalt 18v series, but most of the time give me the M12.

 

[Ign]

When you ask a 12V tool to provide constant twisting torque (drill) you really can't expect much. An impact is more powerful because it impacts. How much force could your wife apply to something with a 6" lever vs using that same 6" lever with a small hammer hitting it?

The 12V drills (particularly brushed) are for light duty use. But I love 'em on ladders, for overhead work, and even used the hell out of my 2410 drilling out 4 broken bolts on a SBF water pump 'cause it fit so well in the engine bay. I also use mine with a countersink to de-burr thousands of holes per purchase order.

I'd be miserable without the OPTIONS of both M12 and M18. Sometimes my tiny '88 Ranger is the better vehicle, sometimes I gotta have the '08 one ton....

 

[Jarhead0408]

Some very good points there Ign. I appreciate your comments.

What really rang out was your mentioning of using it for overhead work. I've used a 18v DeWalt overhead before for drywall and a few other tasks. You quickly get tired of the weight involved.

I'd love to have the ebay set I listed earlier, but the funds only allow for one set currently. Not sure which one I'll end up with ultimately. Whichever one I choose I'd likely pick up the 2nd set next year.

 

[itguy08]

I don't know I'd use a special cheap kit as a representative of the whole line. The batteries and charger are probably a huge part of that kit. At retail they are, what $90 right there. Even knocking off 50% that's $45. Something has to give and my guess is it's the drill.

Looking at the specs of the drill, it does seem decent. I've got the older hammer drill and have run spade bits (up to 1") in it - slower going but it gets the job done. I don't think the non-Fuel stuff is meant to replace 18V stuff but be a good for lighter tasks. More along the lines of finish carpentry vs framing stuff. The hammer drill is immensely useful for small fasteners like Tapcons. It will do great for smaller holes but for bigger stuff, out comes the 18V Fuel.

You want to see weak - look at the other 12v stuff. My other 12v drill, the Hitachi DS10DFL has even less power and it's surprisingly useful.

My only real complaint with the M12 stuff is if you work it hard it will blow through the batteries like crazy. But other than that they are great compact tools for the small to medium jobs. In a pinch they will work for large jobs but it will be slow going.

 

[cnk]

The $99 M12 set was for the brushed version of the tools if I recall. They are not much different from any of the other 12v tools from other manufacturers IMO. It's when you step up to the Fuel line with the brushless motors that the M12 line really starts to shine. I use the M12 Fuel 3/8" impact for everything when working on my cars except for lug nuts and other high torque applications where I use the M18 Fuel 1/2" high torque impact.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[akacoke]

for $99 plus tax i picked up a m12 drill. impact with 2 small batteries and one large battery at homedepot. im pretty happy with purchase.

 

[quattroJoe]

I don't feel that the power is lacking at all in my M12 tools, though most of mine are Fuel (brushless) and I'm using the RedLithium 2.0 batteries. Like itguy08 said, I don't think the holiday "special" bundle is a fair representation of the overall line.

 

[Builder302]

I got the same set this weekend. I used them to hang Christmas lights, perfect for the task, including using the regular drill for drilling the concrete anchors in decent mortar.

I used them both with my kreg jig too, no power issues in 3/4 wood.

I then used the drill for 1/2 holes in 16 gauge steel. The drill hung in, but was slow. Grabbed my makita 18 volt and buzzed through it.

I love my makita 18 volt set, but needed an extra drill for occasions, decided to go with this as it was almost the same as a bare tool in the makita. I am pleased with the purchase.

 

[Ricky112]

Love my m12 brushless, use it every day as an apprentice auto tech

 

[RivennHewn]

Here's an idea. Buy tools that suit your needs.

Not everybody wants/needs/cares to pay for top end power.

They have an intended purpose/target user.

They aren't under powered, you just didn't do your homework.

 

[dnschmidt]

Nothing that's 12V is all that powerful. The thing about 12V is compact size and does most of what you need. If powerful is what you need M18 Fuel delivers that. 12V Fuel is quite powerful for 12V but you have a choice to make size and weight or power. Seldom do you get both.

 

[Jarhead0408]

I don't think it was a lack of homework on my part. I've read about the M12/M18 series here for months now. It all seems to be pretty good as a whole. You can't really judge how powerful a drill is until you have it in your hands.

The drill is the sticking point for me. It just doesn't seem to have any oomph IMO. The impact I like. I imagine I'll like the M18 3/8 Fuel version even better. Both the M12 brushless drill and the M12 ratchet seem to be everyones favorites. I think I'll be returning these and use the money for something else.

Thanks for all the comments though.

 

[kctyphoon]

i think tasks like drywall are the perfect for a set like that, and small stuff like hanging electric boxes.. just because they might be "capable" of doing more, i feel is only meant to be for the ocassional use.. i drywalled my enitre home by myself, with 10' vaulted ceilings in my living room, with the old 7.2 volt dewalt screwdriver.. at the time, that was the best tool i ever purchased..

anyway, if the 12v drill isnt enough for what youre doing, i cant help but feel you may be asking too much of it. i have most of the dewalt 12v max line, and i love them, but its not something i would pick up if i were going to build a deck.

 

[Jarhead0408]

That's what I'm thinking as well ^^^ I think I'll be heading down the M18 route instead.

 

[RivennHewn]

Just re-read my post, and it sounded a little bitchy. Apologies.

I have the M12 line, and it doesn't leave my house.

I use DeWalt 20V at work.

Big difference, but for Johnny home owner stuff M12 is great and I like the small size.

 

[G_P]

My little M12 drill easily has twice the power of my old Ryobi 18v which was twice the size.

I do find the Hackzall to be a bit of a letdown though. It seems to be marketed to plumbers and such but it turns out it has a computer module inside it. I was using it to cut out an old drain pipe and a bit of water dripped on it and it just died instantly. The white LED stayed on constantly but the trigger did nothing. Took it apart and found the board full of surace mount chips was wet and the inside of the case was full of metal/plastic/wood dust from previous jobs. Blew it dry and sprayed it with electrical cleaner and it works again, but its kinda a letdown to realize that something made to cut metal can be stopped by some metal dust or a few drops of water.

The first generation batteries **** too. I have 3 of them that just randomly stopped working. All the cells in them check out fine, but the microchip in them has decided to tell the charger to reject them now.

 

[kctyphoon]

My little M12 drill easily has twice the power of my old Ryobi 18v which was twice the size.

I do find the Hackzall to be a bit of a letdown though. It seems to be marketed to plumbers and such but it turns out it has a computer module inside it. I was using it to cut out an old drain pipe and a bit of water dripped on it and it just died instantly. The white LED stayed on constantly but the trigger did nothing. Took it apart and found the board full of surace mount chips was wet and the inside of the case was full of metal/plastic/wood dust from previous jobs. Blew it dry and sprayed it with electrical cleaner and it works again, but its kinda a letdown to realize that something made to cut metal can be stopped by some metal dust or a few drops of water.

The first generation batteries **** too. I have 3 of them that just randomly stopped working. All the cells in them check out fine, but the microchip in them has decided to tell the charger to reject them now.

this is one tool that i think dewalt did better than milwaukee.. the 12v max saw is awsome for small jobs.. so far ive used it to cut out copper pipes for installing a new slop sink in my basement, and to cut out some drywall for a hidden in-wall safe... 2 jobs where the small, articulating saw was perfect..

 

[Jarhead0408]

Just re-read my post, and it sounded a little bitchy. Apologies.

I have the M12 line, and it doesn't leave my house.

I use DeWalt 20V at work.

Big difference, but for Johnny home owner stuff M12 is great and I like the small size.

No worries man. Figured you had a rough day or something. Of course, part of the problem might be that I've never used anything less than my 14.4v Dewalts. Usually I'm using 18v. Guess I'm jaded with the larger stuff?

As far as size is concerned, they look pretty awesome. Sometimes I'll have a dead vehicle come in that I can't put in the shop to work on because another vehicle is in there. In the case of a torn ****** pan, I would have to leave the bay door open and drag a air hose/ratchet out there to do the R&R. With this tool I could leave the bay to conserve heat and zip those ****** bolts off pretty quickly.

The driver would come in handy where it might be hard to fit a full sized drill.

Decisions-decisions.

 

[Banjorear]

I'm happy with the purchase. I used both tools all weekend. I used the drill to drill through 1/2" plywood with a 1 3/8" spade bit. It did get caught and stop once, but for what it is I thought that was pretty good.

The drill is only a 3/8" drill. It is meant for small stuff. I think it is well worth because there are going to be times when you need to drill something and can't get into the space with a big or full size drill.

I can see using the impact 10X more than the drill, but I'll glad I have them. I am going to buy the bare 3/8" M12 Fuel impact and use the XP battery that came with the kit on it so that only was worth it to me.

 

[rockfordmarv]

I too thought it was a tad underpowered, but i'm not putting up a deck with it either. I'm about 80% sure i'm going to keep the m12 stuff and buy the ratchet.

I already have an adequet Rydgid 18v set that will suffice for larger jobs.

 

[St-rider]

I bought the Milwaukee set from HD also. Still in the box though.
They had a similar package from Rigid for the same price but with one small battery instead of two. If I remember correctly, the Milwaukee drill has a 275 lb./inch rating and the Rigid is 400 lb./inch. Has anyone done a side by side comparison?

 

[Banjorear]

I too thought it was a tad underpowered, but i'm not putting up a deck with it either. I'm about 80% sure i'm going to keep the m12 stuff and buy the ratchet.

I already have an adequet Rydgid 18v set that will suffice for larger jobs.

I was all hot for the ratchet, but I think I'm going to go with the 3/8" M12 impact. I'm sure you can get into more places with the ratchet, but I'm thinking I'd get more mileage out of the impact gun.

Does anyone have both and care to add your experiences?

 

[BioNerd]

The cheaper tools yes. You know there is like 10 drill/drivers.
But, compared to other brand 12v, Milwaukee seems better.

My set is mostly fuel, and I really don't think 18-20v are necessary for what I do.

I've never had to ask anyone to let me borrow their 18v because my 12v isn't cutting it.

 

[BioNerd]

That lil ratchet is weak tho, I've used it.

 

[carterbeauford]

I built an entire pole barn using an M12 1/4 hex impact to drive Timberlok screws, not underpowered at all.

 

[T45]

They also have the m12 #2408, which is the hammer drill/driver (non-Fuel). I looked around for other reviews of the 2407 and basically found none online. People seem to think the 2408 has some guts despite being smal and not having the fuel's brushless motor.

I am wondering if maybe milwaukee dumbed down the m12 a bit to cut costs and get people into more expensive parts of their system? I don't think I need a fuel drill but I need something solid in the small form factor. CPO has #2408 kits going for a decent discount, so that might be an option to consider.

For ~$200 you could get a Fuel Impact Driver and non-fuel the Hammer Drill and have a pretty powerful combo at a very fair price. It would add a little weight, but if you get more solid construction, the two-speed impact, and two tools with maybe more longevity.

Anyone care to chime in on the #2408 (brushed hammer-drill/driver)?

 

[firebox40dash5]

I'd look out for cheap Fuels on ebay/CL, and keep the batteries, then wait a bit for people to forget this sale and recoup some money selling the brushed ones. Even if you only got $40 for both, $60 for 3 batteries isn't bad. Milwaukee will honor the 5 year tool warranty back to the manufacture date without proof of purchase, and the Fuel tools can't be too old, so buying from a 3rd party doesn't pose much of an issue there.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I bought the $99 M12 set this week, havent really "USED" it for actual work, just the obligitory play with my new toys once the batteries were charged. I bought it for use in the house...99.00 is worth it to me to not have to always have my drill & batteries in the wrong building...when I needed it in the house it was in my shop, when I needed it in the shop it was in the house.

At the end of the day, its a small 3/8" drill. Its claim to fame IMHO is the price and size/weight. I've got the M18 Fuel Drill and its just not a fair comparison to compare it to the M18 Fuel AT ALL. Dont forget its 12V...12V tools were the hot ticket back in 1998..here in 2014 the 12V tools to me pack more performance then they did back then and in much more compact & handy packages.

Small, Light, Handy = M12 Brushed is fine
Big Heavy Bas-*** Powerful = M18 Fuel.

I know the M12 fuel has a big following, but at this time, I'm not seeing where I'd want/need one. About the only thing I wish was that my M12 3/8" Drill had a 1/2" chuck on it. I know it wont drill 1/2" holes in 3/4" Steel plate, but it would be nice to chuck up a 1/2" bit if I needed to drill a hole in a pine board without having to buy 3/8" Shank bits..

 

[ishiboo]

Love the 12V tools, I have Bosch and Milwaukee. Their compact size/weight makes them great for a ton of work. Obviously they have lower power than the larger sizes, but I find them useful for a ton of things.

I also have Bosch 18v and 36v. I used to use the 36v for everything, now since I have so much 18v gear and batteries I find myself using them more. The 36v I use when I have a lot of screws to put in (or something big to drill), since I hate impacts and the 36v will even drive lag screws home without the godawful hammering noise.

 

[chrisexv6]

While we're talking the non-Fuel M12 stuff.....has anyone done a comparison of the old (1.5, 3.0Ah) battery packs vs the new (2.0, 4.0Ah) packs?

Im curious if its worth getting 2 separate M12 Fuel tools to get the extra battery packs vs just getting a combo kit that comes with less 2.0Ah packs and just use the 1.5Ah packs from this deal in their place.

 

[ishiboo]

I built an entire pole barn using an M12 1/4 hex impact to drive Timberlok screws, not underpowered at all.

Doesn't the hammering bother you?

I would much rather use a larger drill and drive them home without the fuss in a situation like that.

 

[truckdriver]

Not sure what you're expecting. I used my non fuel M12 drill to drill 1/2" holes in the frame of my semi truck. Worked just fine for that. I only got rid of it when I got the M18 Fuel drill/impact kit and dad wanted a small drill.

 

[truckdriver]

Doesn't the hammering bother you?

I would much rather use a larger drill and drive them home without the fuss in a situation like that.

Just the opposite. Try it some time and you'll find using the impact is a dream compared to drill for driving any kind of screws.

 

[ishiboo]

Just the opposite. Try it some time and you'll find using the impact is a dream compared to drill for driving any kind of screws.

I have a bunch of 12V impacts as well as an 18V, I almost never use any of them. The hammering drives me nuts. Not sure how it's a "dream", the 36V shoots them in faster than the smaller impacts with no noise/hammering/etc?

And I know the 12v products on Timberloks would spend quite a bit of time hammering.

 

[er3456df]

Doesn't the hammering bother you?

I would much rather use a larger drill and drive them home without the fuss in a situation like that.

Hammering? No snark intended, but have you ever used an impact driver?

All I can say is, to me impact drivers are WAY better for odd angle use, overhead, etc. The impacting reduces cam-out, shortens the amount of time you spend holding your arms up, and reduces the counter-torque on the handle. Can't think of a single downside, really- other than noise?

 

[abvw]

There hasn't been anything that my M12 hammer drill cannot punch through with a good, sharp drill bit. I've drilled out broken studs (and broke plenty of EZ-outs), made holes in dump trucks, punched through concrete walls, polished headlights and rims, no problems. If you're having problem going through materials, you're using the wrong (or worn out) bits and speed setting.

You don't drive screws with the drill, even at 18V (500 in-lb) they are gutless for the job, that's what the impact drivers are for. No counter torque so you don't hit your face when the screw bottoms out. If noise is a concern, put on some plugs.

The ratchet is alright for light duty use, I despise it for auto work, as the "neck" and overall length of the ratchet is too short and find myself having access issues due to the body not being able to fit in tight clearances. When you're torquing down the tool it flexes (the tool makes a creaking noise) a little more than I like. Don't even get me started on the reverse switch and paddle trigger.