anyone ever cheat on adding garage area?

[garager]

city will only allow me a 22 x 24 garage.
i have poured cement 3 feet wide, 6" deep all the way around my foundation.
once i build the garage and pass inspection i want to add to the outside of the garage.
if i can add 3 feet on 3 sides of the garage i effectively have a 28 x 27!
the 3 foot area would be built in a lean to fashion.
it only needs to be 5-6 foot high and 3 feet deep so as to house tool boxes or bench or shelving or such.
i can cut out a couple 2 x 4's of the wall and double up and brace the others for the load support.
clear as mud?

anyone have any ideas or thoughts or comments?
anyone ever done anything like this?
i was told the rear of the garage would be the easiest place to cheat or extend as my roof will peak in the rear and front (reverse gable?).

thanks for any comments
p.s. my yard is 250 deep and could support a 30 x 40 but for some reason city council (yes, i applied for a variance) wont allow any more than a 22 x 24!

 

[G M]

You could probably get away with as long as your neighbors don't rat you out.


I guess I feel a bit better now, what can you do with 22x24????
The limit here is 880 sqft and I feel that is too small so I am applying for a variance to get 960 sqft.

 

[garager]

glad i made somebody feel better!
i will have a 6 foot privacy fence so the neighbors wont see to much!

 

[Rex Ruby]

Request a hearing for your variance.
Explain that your property supports the larger size and that 22 X 24 does not support your hobby.
Ask for the largest size, then compromise to a smaller one but bigger than 22 X 24.

 

[OH-MAN]

Not to sure about your method of adding to the size. The outside walls are the main support of the roof.
The lean 2 idea is a bit scary structurally to me . I am not an engineer and do not even own a train set. I have been involved in construction for 30 years. try the variance first.

 

[bdaz442]

I sure am glad I live in the country. I didn't even get a building permit when I built my 30' x30'
Garage. I don't like the Idea of someone telling me how to spend my money on the property I paid for.

 

[garager]

Request a hearing for your variance.
Explain that your property supports the larger size and that 22 X 24 does not support your hobby.
Ask for the largest size, then compromise to a smaller one but bigger than 22 X 24.

been there, done that, 22 x 24 is all i can get!

 

[garager]

Not to sure about your method of adding to the size. The outside walls are the main support of the roof.
The lean 2 idea is a bit scary structurally to me . I am not an engineer and do not even own a train set. I have been involved in construction for 30 years. try the variance first.

i will double up the support beams (2x4's) to support the roof ,only going to remove a few any way, remove just enough to get tool chest's in.
and then build the 'lean to' just like a regular wall only extended out 3 feet.
maybe i can even have it built that way.

 

[BetterDays]

I know it *****, but can you build another building (smaller) and attach the two with a walkway of sorts?

Say, 12X12 office?

 

[trovato]

Want to know what really pisses off building inspectors and zoning boards? Ask for permission to do something, and when they say no, do it anyway. I wouldn't do it. Either A) fight them more. Hire lawyers. Work on developing "political connections" or B) Come up with creative ways to do something livable, like the things mentioned already. Is the 22x24 the limit on the building or the footprint? You might be able to do a cantelever design that will not increase the footprint. Have you ever seen the "containers" they load onto ships? They're kind of like the trailers that semi's pull, without the wheels. I've seen people buy these, and use them for storage. They are technically movable, so usually they are usually not considered to be structures by the powers that be. They are rather industrial and ugly though. Maybe you can add a couple of extra garage doors and park a couple of those things right up to the building. Then you can offer to get rid of the hideous things if they'll let you make the garage bigger! Well, I'm not really serious about that. Anyway, if it were me, I wouldn't openly defy the city council.

 

[64coupe]

It won't make the floor space any larger, but utilizing vertical space can help. Go with a second story or at least storage trusses for utilizing the space up top.

 

[ZRWON]

I guess I feel a bit better now, what can you do with 22x24????
The limit here is 880 sqft and I feel that is too small so I am applying for a variance to get 960 sqft.

I agree with 64 coupe. You might consider 10 ft ceilings (or more) if you can't get approval for a bigger footprint. I've seen a lot of creative storage ideas at this forum site...some hanging from the ceiling and others with small balconies for storage, etc, especially with catherdal type ceilings and dormer windows. Good luck.

 

[Wile1Coyote]

It's Warren slip the inspector a $100 and I'll bet he would approve anything you wanted.

 

[ZRWON]

city will only allow me a 22 x 24 garage.
i was told the rear of the garage would be the easiest place to cheat or extend as my roof will peak in the rear and front (reverse gable?).thanks for any comments
p.s. my yard is 250 deep and could support a 30 x 40 but for some reason city council (yes, i applied for a variance) wont allow any more than a 22 x 24!

I WANT TO ADD MY 2 CENTS TO "CHEATING". I DID MORTGAGE LOANS FOR A FEW YEARS AFTER I RETIRED AND SAW MANY DEALS FALL THRU BECAUSE THE APPRAISAL AND/OR FINAL INSPECTION NOTED UNAPPROVED ADDITIONS/CHANGES TO THE APPROVED, "AS BUILT" PLANS ON FILE WITH THE PERMIT ISSUING AGENCY. HUD, FHA, VA, ETC WILL NOT APPROVE LOANS LIKE THIS AND THE COST TO CORRECT IS BIG $$!
PLAY BY THE RULES (you may not like them, but it's hard to beat the gov't red tape).

 

[Jay H 237]

been there, done that, 22 x 24 is all i can get!

Did they give you a specific reason as to why? I understand that you tried but there must be some reason that you can't go bigger even though your property can support it.

If they're concerned about the nieghbors looking at such a big building you could offer to plant shrubs around the perimeter of the property so they don't have to stare at the building. Sure, it may take a few years for them to grow tall enough, but it may pacify the nieghbors if they're the ones objecting to planning and zoning.

 

[bmwpower]

Did they give you a specific reason as to why? I understand that you tried but there must be some reason that you can't go bigger even though your property can support it.

If they're concerned about the nieghbors looking at such a big building you could offer to plant shrubs around the perimeter of the property so they don't have to stare at the building.

You're right. Sounds like you only took the arguement so far with the township.

Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, there should be some sort of variance process for building structures. I had to hire a lawyer for mine. He in turn followed the township's procedures and filed all the paper work, posted ads in the newspapers announcing the planning board meeting (with my issue on the docket) and argued in my defense. Turned out not to be too much of a fight as no neighbors showed up...guess who won? Best $500 I ever spent.

 

[kartracer55]

Like was mentioned about building size vs. footprint... you could probab;ly rig something up, like a storage area that was elevated off the ground say a foot or two comming out of the back. This way the buildings footpring is not actualy any larger.

 

[danski0224]

Some towns are using aerial surveillance. The bigger question is what happens if you get caught....

 

[jvo]

Where I live, we're allowed 14% of our lot size for garage square footage. This gave me 24 x 28, but the inspector allowed me to go an extra 2 feet, to 24 x 30, as long as it didn't push me over the 15% mark. I built a garage with full loft, had to get special permit from the city, as normal height is 14 feet to the peak of the roof, from the ground. My house has a 10/12 pitch roof, and must be 30 feet to the peak, or so. They sent letters to all my neighbors, it cost $400.00, and was posted in the paper, no-one objected. I think the key is to build a nice looking structure. If you build a warehouse, people will naturally object.
I have a friend who built onto his garage, sort of, with enclosed cold storage. He has the river valley behind his house, no neighbors back there to complain. Claims he built close, it looks like its attached, but there's not one single nail or screw attaching this enclosure to the actual garage. Surround 2 sides, and he can store 4 cars and a Fordson tractor in there, along with a lot of fenders and tools.
Build a BIG garden shed, check into the regulations for that. Here, lots of guys do it, and its legal as long as its not on a concrete foundation. i.e. on wooden skids, that can be moved easily.

 

[dodgecharger-fan]

Have you ever seen the "containers" they load onto ships? They're kind of like the trailers that semi's pull, without the wheels. I've seen people buy these, and use them for storage. They are technically movable, so usually they are usually not considered to be structures by the powers that be. They are rather industrial and ugly though.

I've seen an ad somewhere for a company that converts those things to look more like a yard shed and even has a few different choices for doors.

I saw one somewhere in Massuchusetts this weekend and it was covered in vinyl siding. The doors weren't altered in any way, though. That and the flat top was the only thing that gave it away...

 

[donsm4]

Well, here is a solution I am using. I constructed a 10' wide by 30' long awning that pivots on the side of the garage. It is supported on the outside edges with three 8'X2" dia. light steel poles. It is covered with the heavy plastic tarp silver and black. I made sides with the same type tarp material with the black showing. These roll up or detach. I poured cement as a pad. The awing will pivot flat against the side of the garage when not in use. It's a temporary awning and not a building addition...Don

 

[sca037]

Well, here is a solution I am using. I constructed a 10' wide by 30' long awning that pivots on the side of the garage. It is supported on the outside edges with three 8'X2" dia. light steel poles. It is covered with the heavy plastic tarp silver and black. I made sides with the same type tarp material with the black showing. These roll up or detach. I poured cement as a pad. The awing will pivot flat against the side of the garage when not in use. It's a temporary awning and not a building addition...Don

When we built our detached garage at our old place (Plymouth, MI) they had a 7% lot stamp rule, so our 50' x 150' city lot only allowed us a 525 square foot building. I tried all avenues to get a variance for more space (I wanted 24' x 28') but was shot down at all levels, in spite of the fact that not only did none of my neighbors object to the plan they actually signed a consent form on the deal. I proposed some alternatives (like the awning Don mentioned) but if it was attached to the structure at any point it was included in the square footage so not helpful. 24' x 22' cranked out to 528 so that was what I built and had to live with until we moved to the country
Even if I wanted to try and add something later, our fences were restricted to 4' high so there would have been no need to even resort to satellite photos to call me out on it.

I wish I had better news, but that's my story!
Brian

 

[bmwpower]

Funny how a lot of people are mentioning % of lot size. Mine was calculated against the HOUSE size, which was a max of 20%. My final plan turned out to be 30%.

 

[comquat1]

Do you have a walkout lot or daylight lot or neither? I currently have plans to build on a walkout lot I purchased. I was looking at a 13-1400sq ft house with a four stall garage attached. It would be the max allowed in proportion to my living area. Then I saw a neighber two lots down put up a house with a three stall garage (looked normal) but when I looked closer I realized he put spancrete in so not only did he have a three stall garage in the front of his house, but he also had three stalls underneath the garage (accessed in the back with a single garage door).

I called the city with regards to how that works with our % of living area rule and they said that they do not count the undergarage area as garage space. I didn't really understand why, but I wasn't going to question either. Maybe it's because that area could be used for living space, who knows, but it is an option if you have the right type of lot.

 

[trovato]

Mine was calculated against the HOUSE size, which was a max of 20%. My final plan turned out to be 30%.

So, would you be allowed to make the garage bigger if you made the house bigger? What if you put the awnings on the house? How about a nice big screened in porch?

 

[bmwpower]

So, would you be allowed to make the garage bigger if you made the house bigger? What if you put the awnings on the house? How about a nice big screened in porch?

Remember, in my case I had to get a variance, therefore I could have made the garage even bigger than it currently is. Not sure how it would have been perceived by the zoning board. It may have posed a problem - I'll never know.

In my case, it was calculated against (heated) living space. A screened in porch may qualify in some areas, but probably not in mine since it has to be heated living space. An awning is definitely not living space.

Either way you look at it, the township gets you for $$$. You make your house bigger ($$$) to enable you to make a bigger garage ($$) and you end up paying even more taxes for both ($$$$).

*****.

 

[TOO Z MAXX]

Kind of ***** you cant do what you want with your own property. As long as the neighbors dont care they should let you do what you want. I swear the gov wants to control everything.

 

[garager]

i thank everyone for their comments and ideas.
i have not decided exactly what i am going to do yet ... or when.
may not do anything, might just go with what i got.

hmmm ....i wonder what the rule is on dog houses? lol

 

[Aspen]

Good luck on your pursuit. I just sucked it up and went with the largest one that I could(20'x24') in the city of Chicago. This is actually pretty generous considering I live very close to downtown Chicago. I cheated a little in height though and got an extended gable style roofing that will allow me to put in a car lift(for a 3rd car) and sqeeze in a mini loft on the second floor.

 

[XR7G428]

Call it something else...

In my case, my contractor knew how to work the system. He added some interior walls and designated the area as a "hobby room". Where I wanted a shower in the bath, he called it a "Closet". This was needed to convince them that this wasn't an apartment. All of this reduced the area called "garage". I am also adding central heat and air to create "living space". This dramatically increases the appraised value of the addition.

When I asked to build a big garage and shop. I got shot down. Just by changing the definitions of what was being built, it all flew through the process without a whimper.

The key is that you can turn an interior closet into a shower with out anything more than a remodel permit. There is no definition of what makes a hobby room different from a shop. You just have to use the right words.

 

[bmwpower]

In my case, my contractor knew how to work the system. He added some interior walls and designated the area as a "hobby room". Where I wanted a shower in the bath, he called it a "Closet". This was needed to convince them that this wasn't an apartment. All of this reduced the area called "garage". I am also adding central heat and air to create "living space". This dramatically increases the appraised value of the addition.

When I asked to build a big garage and shop. I got shot down. Just by changing the definitions of what was being built, it all flew through the process without a whimper.

The key is that you can turn an interior closet into a shower with out anything more than a remodel permit. There is no definition of what makes a hobby room different from a shop. You just have to use the right words.

VERY good point.

 

[vettescout]

The covenants in my subdivision would only allow 800 sq. ft., however when I checked further I found there were no restrictions other than setback and a right of way that had been granted to the power company IF,
I attached the garage to the house sooo, now it's 1600 sq. ft, you an generally beat them if you try!

 

[indyjps]

one idea is to use over sized trusses to hang out over the extra pad you are pouring. the structure would be the size the city wants but you still have a roof over the concrete area. what do you know, if you built it right you could move the walls in the future??, also suggest going as tall as possible by using a rat wall of some kind, i have an 8X12 loft in my garage that holds a tremendous amount of stuff and enough headroom to walk under it, could even put your bench under the loft with extra lighting. good luck

 

[garager]

Even if I wanted to try and add something later, our fences were restricted to 4' high so there would have been no need to even resort to satellite photos to call me out on it.

so i guess i will have to grow grass on the roof?

 

[hornett22]

i say go for it!

screw the bastrds! the zoning and building guy is in trouble for illegally zoning his own property for three building lots,after they told him not to. it's out of control!

 

[randii]

Anyway, if it were me, I wouldn't openly defy the city council.

I hate to agree with this... but in the end, after years of fighting one stubborn neighbor with a grudge and spare time to burn, working with a mostly well-intentioned city council and building inspector, I have given up fighting them hand-to-hand.... and moved to working around their rules. Smokey Yunick would be proud, I think -- it ain't cheating if the rules aren't broken, and there is always room BETWEEN the rules.

For instance, if you're limited in square footage, build the largest space you can (go ad tall as possible -- second floor, maybe?). Then build a car-port adjacent to it. Overhang the hell out of the roof (low pitch helps, here) and use outside cabinets... or tarping out to the side from exposed eaves and rafters.

If all that fails to be enough room and I establish more 'marital credit' such that I won't be killed in my sleep ... since I ran the shop roof peak parallel with the property line, I could push the front/back walls out to expand cheaply in permanent construction, or easily add a car-port forward/backward with trusses. Due to county rules, I need to add it as 'habitable space' and not garage -- but the requirements of such 'habitable space' lend themselves quite well to a heated woodshop, paint area, etc.... and if you've just gotta have the garage space, you're fine as long as you are willing to drive through french-door type openings and not a roll-up door.

As always, your inspector may have different opinions (even than the codes he's been charged to enforce!), so try to work with them as much as possible to identify the local rules, before you start working the spaces between said local rules.

Randii

 

[randii]

Getting Creative with Temporary Awnings

FWIW, I expanded the heck out of my shop, but planned ahead for side storage in the 8' aisle I have between the fence (property line) and shop wall. I overhung the legal limit and used exposed rafters from which I can run a a 'temporary awning' (requires no permit) by extending the eaves on the house side of the shed. If you span more than four feet with this tarp, add some uprights to support the outer ends.

I have tested out simple and cheap EMT conduit that runs diagonally dow, inline with the rafters, to the property line, where it hooks to vertical conduit uprights run just inside the fence. The whole tarp can be rolled up and under the eaves for storage, or draped over the conduit ribs just inside the fence. If I tarp the whole sideyard, I get 8'x 48' of quasi-indoor space (nearly 400ft^2)! Next summer, I'll be rebuilding that old side fence, and will be integrating lateral stabilization for the conduit ribs as I build. I've learned that how well you tension the tarp is directly related to how long it lasts -- I have gotten a few years out of year-round well-stretched poly tarps, and figure I can get more if I roll them in under the rafters during the dry season.

I live in California, so snow-loading is not a concern. Obviously, your climate may vary...

Randii

 

[randii]

Well, here is a solution I am using. I constructed a 10' wide by 30' long awning that pivots on the side of the garage. It is supported on the outside edges with three 8'X2" dia. light steel poles. It is covered with the heavy plastic tarp silver and black. I made sides with the same type tarp material with the black showing. These roll up or detach. I poured cement as a pad. The awing will pivot flat against the side of the garage when not in use. It's a temporary awning and not a building addition...Don

Looks like Don beat me to it -- I didn't see this post earlier becuase of how I have my browser set up. Gotta say it works for me! Rebuilding that side fence is a way for me to keep that neighbor on my side -- that and using a nice silver tarp instead of neon blue.

Randii

 

[Donzi4me]

Some towns are using aerial surveillance. The bigger question is what happens if you get caught....

This is true....

When I applied for my permit for my garage, they pulled up my aerial view, and placed my proposed structure on the screen. It compaired all the set backs and % of lot coverage before a permit was granted.

I would play by the rules. You may be able to "bend" them a little, but you don't want the local authorities after you.

 

[JBS Motorsports]

Zoning Laws ****!! When I built my garage(96 x78) on 80 Acres and followed ALL thre local zoning laws they denied my permit. The building inspector said because it was so big I must going to do Commercial work in it and I was not in a business zone. After trying to tell him it was only a hobby with me, he said so sad to bad and denied my permit and sent me to the zoning board of appeals. (My FIRST MISTAKE!!) Went to hearing and they could see no problem and said issue the permit. I built the garage and when done My neighbor(who is a 1/4 mile away, but could SEE the garage decided the file an article 78 law suite against both the town and myself. After going to court and winning and having the neighbor file a appeal and winning again and a YEAR later and $10,000.00 poorer we now have the garage we wanted in the first place.I say build it and let the prove it's wrong!!!!