Anyone ever have the power company evaluation?

[joseywales]

My neighbor had PECO, our local gas and electric company compete and evaluation. They gave him some tips, like insulating for recessed lighting where possible. Gave him free light bulbs, etc. It was $40, but they’re offering a $25 special.

Im always wary of Greeks bearing gifts. What is their main objective? If it were truly energy efficiency, they would have been here 25 years ago, when the cardboard walls, styrofoam insulation, and leaky windows were installed and perhaps could have prevented the labyrinth HVAC ductwork.

Or am I just paranoid?

 

[reader2580]

Power companies do these things because state regulators require them to do it. The goal of the energy audits is to identify areas where homeowners can reduce energy usage.

Power companies would rather have energy use go up so they make more money.

 

[joseywales]

Agreed, but why push it? Why discount the cost? I would guess they haven't hit their quota, but then I wonder, why not? I'm sure there are plenty of folks that would spend $40 to receive, what my friend said was, nearly $200 in bulbs, etc. BTW, he's far from low income. He did the audit, just to improve energy performance.

 

[D45]

Scam, just to show the government they have an energy savings program and receive aid for having freebies and "educating" people

 

[moparguy1]

I just had one done last week and they are free in my area. They gave me a dozen led bulbs of different types for my house, 2 low flow shower heads and 2 power strips where 4 of the outlets will kick off when not being used. They want to be able to cut your electricity usage down because there power grids have not been upgraded fast enough to keep up with all the new homes and businesses that are requiring electricity. I think it is worth doing just for the free items.


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[kaiser715]

Power companies would rather have energy use go up so they make more money.

Actually, it's the other way around. Power companies want you to conserve energy so they make more money. Power generation facilities are expensive to build, and take years to get to production stage.

Enviro-mentalists fight coal and nuclear. The last two nuclear plants built in the US were Watts Bar, which began construction in 1973, was completed in 1990, and didn't go online until 1996, and River Bend, which was built in 1977 and went online in 1986.

 

[jimindm]

We had one several years ago. I would guess it was triggered, because we were using more energy that most of our neighbors.

The guy came out and gave us a few fluorescent bulbs, the faucet aerators, low flow shower heads. Fifteen feet of pipe wrap for the hot water, and a jacket that went around our old hot water heater. Did comment about adding some roof insulation.

In the end he said we did have the largest house on the street and we heated a 24x30 garage out back. He could see where we would always have the biggest utility costs on the block.

 

[joseywales]

We had one several years ago. I would guess it was triggered, because we were using more energy that most of our neighbors.

This is what I believe is triggering mine. We get the letters all the time. We have an 18' above ground pool, with a gas heater. We now have a mini-split HVAC unit in the finished basement, more draw than some around here I guess. Plus, I work from home. We did install a tankless water heater, so that should help.

All of my windows need replacing. When the wind blows, you can feel the air coming through the power outlets, since there is no insulation or real wood to stop it. Not much PECO can do about that

 

[bwringer]

They do the same thing here. As noted above, the goal is to manage energy use -- aside from the environmental benefits of mining and burning less coal, NG, etc., it's a hell of a lot cheaper to get everyone to use 1% less energy than it is to build 1% more generating capacity.

It's also important to manage peak usage. I get an extra $5 a month off my electric bill in the summer because they installed a widget on my heat pump to allow the power company to shut it off for short periods of time. By rotating these AC/heat pump shutoffs through the city, they can control the huge summer spikes and avoid the need to add expensive "overflow" capacity. Most people never even notice the shutoffs, and I'm at work during the day anyway.

 

[finn]

We participated a couple of times, with twe different focuses.

The first time was when cfl bulbs were becoming popular, while the second time was a couple of years ago with led lighting.

I doubt that i’ll Ever have to buy another light bulb.

Also got shower heads and a set back thermostat.we got two almost free heat pump water heaters through a related power company rebate program. The $1000 water heaters ended up costing $50 for the first one and nothing for the next one a year later.

 

[ddawg16]

We participated a couple of times, with twe different focuses.

The first time was when cfl bulbs were becoming popular, while the second time was a couple of years ago with led lighting.

I doubt that i’ll Ever have to buy another light bulb.

Also got shower heads and a set back thermostat.we got two almost free heat pump water heaters through a related power company rebate program. The $1000 water heaters ended up costing $50 for the first one and nothing for the next one a year later.

Yup^^

The reality is, the number of people using energy is not going down.

The best way to make sure there is enough to go around, reduce how much we use.

I just finished an addition to my house....went from 1027 sq ft to over 2100 sq ft. My utility bills are only about 15% more now than 10 years ago. My house is a lot more comfortable....and a lot quieter.

As a metric.....the t-stat is set for a max of 69 deg. Heat shuts off at 9pm....and won't go on until 6am or if the temp drops below 62 inside.

This morning, it was 43 deg outside and 65 in my house at 5am.....and the heat never came on during the night.

 

[marinusdees]

Our utility company regularly sends an enclosure with the monthly bill comparing our energy usage with the "average" in our "neighborhood", whatever that means. We always compare unfavorably. My daughter, with the same situation, walked her "neighborhood" and found everyone compared unfavorably. Maybe this is a case of statistical "damn lies" being used to make everyone feel guilty and sell insulation, furnaces, water heaters?? Jus' sayin'

 

[sberry]

They wanted my neighbor to do something to a tiny heat pump, it would have taken over 13 years just to pay for the materials which amounted to a little wire. Same for the efficiency appliances, the **** would be worn out 2x before the savings kicked in.

 

[padroo]

Power plants are really inefficient, they always have to generate more than is needed because the excess can't be stored. I have read that in the future with electric cars plugged in that the power will be reversed and fed back into the grid at times when demand is high.

 

[6768rogues]

There is probably a fee or tax on your utility bill that helps to fund those things. If you are interested, have them do it.

 

[runner1]

Anybody remember the '70's and '80's, when they were BEGGING people to go "all-electric"?

 

[apollo11]

I got a free fridge and microwave about 6 years back

 

[Fly YX]

When I move to Wisconsin I bought a house that was built in 1927. I wanted to do the renovations myself because I've seen a lot of houses done that look good but after a year to start falling apart because the renovation was not done correctly. The last time I house was done was in the 50s and it was only the kitchen and the bathroom. My heat was an old oil furnace and it was costing me$1,000 a month to heat so I wanted to convert to gas had to call the gas company to run new line to my house. When I did that they told me I had to have an energy audit I asked what that entailed when they said they looked at the windows and the insulation I told them that I would fail the audit original windows and no insulation. Well they came by and did the audit and of course I failed and ask some what happens next they said I could not get gas until my house was more energy efficient. At this point he was telling me about the focus on energy program and they would come and replace my furnace insulate my home and look at my appliances and water heater and put a fan in the bathroom. I ended up getting a new furnace and they insulated my home and gave me a bunch of compact fluorescent lights. They would have replaced my windows but apparently the contractor that they use to do the work scammed them and now they don't do the windows anymore go figure.

 

[reader2580]

I suspect the state requires power companies to do a certain number of energy audits and they reduce the cost if not enough people are taking them up on the offer.

It doesn't make sense for a power company not to want to sell more electricity. They make no revenue or profit from electricity that is never sold. Say you owned a company with a plant that could make 1,000 widgets per day. There is demand for 2,000 widgets per day. Would you just keep on making 1,000 widgets a day, or would you expand the plant to keep up with demand even though it costs money?

My electric bill shows me using about half the power of my neighbors so there are people who are below average. Same thing for my parents on a different power company.

 

[malibu101]

I don't know the details, but I know this...
The company that I work for gets notices from the utility company at times of high use (middle of the afternoon on a hot sunny summer day) to cut back our electric useage.

If we cut back to, or below, a magic number they pay us for NOT using electric.
It's cheaper for them to do that than to build new plant and transmission lines.

 

[Jimithing616]

On this note, here in my area of MN, we actually get a monthly printout of how our power and gas use compares to our neighbors, ranking us against them. Haha, it's always nice to know you're the jerk in the neighborhood who's melting the glaciers and killing baby seals because you want to heat your 3 car garage/shop throughout the -10 degree winters while running all your power hungry tools.... I usually don't look at it

 

[reader2580]

I don't know the details, but I know this...
The company that I work for gets notices from the utility company at times of high use (middle of the afternoon on a hot sunny summer day) to cut back our electric useage.

If we cut back to, or below, a magic number they pay us for NOT using electric.
It's cheaper for them to do that than to build new plant and transmission lines.

Peaking power is much more expensive than base power. Power utilities don’t like to pay more for power than they sell it for. A company built a peaking power plant here a while back. They can charge enough for peak power to keep the plant idle much of the time.

 

[Andy8430]

I had an energy audit done a couple years ago. It was free and I’d recommend it.

I was hoping they’d calculate cost savings of adding insulation to my attic, however the calculation they provided was very generic and was the same as on their website.
He did upgrade my garage thermostat to a nicer Honeywell programmable unit and installed a low flow aerator on the kitchen faucet.
He had one of the power strips mentioned in an earlier post, however they charged for them so I opted out.




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[toolmiser]

We had an energy audit done 25 years ago soon after we purchased the home. Showed us some things like insulating the box sills. Time goes by we built a second story, and another audit is offered complete with blower door test, and infrared camera. We had always had energy conservation in mind when doing remodel, but things change and we found some holes that we fixed such as around can lights, and use foam insulation in the box sills, added additional insulation in the attic-this time cellulose to prevent air leakage. The power company paid for most of it, and redid the blower test which got us to a point that the inspector didn't think we could get for air tightness. We do have an "air to air" for fresh air. I don't know how much it has saved us, but when I could see the cold spots (Wisconsin) I knew they needed to be closed up.

 

[6768rogues]

I suspect the state requires power companies to do a certain number of energy audits and they reduce the cost if not enough people are taking them up on the offer.

It doesn't make sense for a power company not to want to sell more electricity. They make no revenue or profit from electricity that is never sold. Say you owned a company with a plant that could make 1,000 widgets per day. There is demand for 2,000 widgets per day. Would you just keep on making 1,000 widgets a day, or would you expand the plant to keep up with demand even though it costs money?

My electric bill shows me using about half the power of my neighbors so there are people who are below average. Same thing for my parents on a different power company.

Suppose the power company can demonstrate that they are trying to get people to conserve and for that effort, the power commission lets them raise their price. If not for that, their share holders would have to dish out $2 billion to build another power plant to keep up with demand. What would you do if you had that decision?

 

[2level]

I didn't realize that some utility co's have a separate charge for energy audits. Around here, it's buried in the bill / rates.




I doubt that public utilities would be promoting energy conservation if it lowered their overall budget / revenue. They do it because it's mandated. Bad thing is -- they're allowed to increase the rates to make up any revenue differences caused by ratepayers successful efforts to conserve.

 

[83VillageRepair]

My neighbor had PECO, our local gas and electric company compete and evaluation. They gave him some tips, like insulating for recessed lighting where possible. Gave him free light bulbs, etc. It was $40, but they’re offering a $25 special.

Im always wary of Greeks bearing gifts. What is their main objective? If it were truly energy efficiency, they would have been here 25 years ago, when the cardboard walls, styrofoam insulation, and leaky windows were installed and perhaps could have prevented the labyrinth HVAC ductwork.

Or am I just paranoid?

Back in the 80's most power companies overbuilt generation that was not fully utilized so then they were trying to encourage more usage. Fast forward to today and most power company's generation is fully utilized and it is in their best interests to shave the peak so as not to have to build more generation and transmission.

 

[JackAndy]

Peaking power is much more expensive than base power. Power utilities don’t like to pay more for power than they sell it for. A company built a peaking power plant here a while back. They can charge enough for peak power to keep the plant idle much of the time.

This. If a utility exceeds the peak demand, the generation and transmission plant have to fire up oil and coal generators to meet that demand. This can cost millions if it happens for even one hour. Because of this, utilities have an incentive to flatten the demand curve as much as possible. They invest a ton in load control to manage that but more efficient appliances etc help too.

For instance the latest solar eclipse that happened this summer was a big problem for several utilities because the street lights and other lights were turned on during the same time of day that peak demand occurs.

 

[rsanter]

I work for a power company at an energy education center and this is what I do.
Depending on the state, there are a number of residential and commercial programs.
The money used for these programs are payed for with fees collected in your energy rate. So you taking advantage of this is like getting a little of your own money back.

Why do the utilities do this? Well as said because we are told to do this.
Why are we told to do this? Well that generally comes from goals or mandates for reducing pollution, reducing carbon footprint (the big thing now), but there can be other reasons as well.
What are the other reasons? Well there could be extra load/stress on the grid in certain areas, there could be power plants that have been shut down due to being too dirty, buisness retention, and there are always many political reasons...etc. so if we need the general populous to reduce energy load on the grid a little then we can generally do that with rebates on EE (energy efficient) items that can be installed or through training.

You asked why they were not doing this 20 years ago? Well in CA we have been doing this for 35 plus years. In other more populated states they have been doing this for a long time. And in some stated they have been doing this for less than 10 years or are just getting started now. Perhaps there have been commercial or industrial programs that have been in place for years and they are just starting this on the residential side.

Is it a good thing or a foil hat conspiracy?
Overall it is a good thing. They don’t always get it right and sometimes when we are told to push is more political that a true scientific/buisness good thing. But overall like I said it is a good thing.
In the USA we use more energy per person than anywhere else on the planet, we use over two times per person what people in Europe do and over 4 times what people in Japan do.
A little thinning down is a good thing.
In my house, during the summer when I have to run the AC. I still keep my electric bills under $100 a month. This is for a 1900 sq ft house. For a house in a hot area of CA that is a great bill. Most of why is from what I have learned in this job.

So what are some of the bad things that have happened from these programs?
Well this is just opinion but....
The way they have run the promotion on solar I think have over benefited the folks with the money. Also they pushed solar too hard. So hard there in some ways is too much solar and not always in the right area. This is now causing a different kind of stress on the grid that is having to be dealt with.
Green rate, they made a ‘green rate’ on electricity. If you sign up for the green rate we charge you more for using the more ego friendly electricity. Sure, right....like the electrons know the difference. This was just a political BS thing so someone can claim they did something and a company that opt to pay for this can claim they are using green energy without actually doing anything else...like say reducing their energy use....mmmmm

I can go on and on....but don’t want to over bore you guys

 

[reader2580]

This. If a utility exceeds the peak demand, the generation and transmission plant have to fire up oil and coal generators to meet that demand. This can cost millions if it happens for even one hour. Because of this, utilities have an incentive to flatten the demand curve as much as possible. They invest a ton in load control to manage that but more efficient appliances etc help too.

I have my doubts on coal plants being used for peaking power. They take a long time to bring online. I toured a smaller coal power plant in the 80s. The tour guide said the generator could never stop turning as it would flat spot.

 

[Mustang1167]

I looked into what was included with an audit with my supplier. For $435 they come out and replace your bulbs with LEDs, smart power strips and other energy saving equipment. Most of my bulbs are not standard (GU24 socket) so I doubt that would even be included. My walls need better insulation and a couple windows could be replaced. Other then that I’d never recover that $435.

 

[PFSard]

I had one done when I bought this house 6-7 years ago. I paid $99.00 or so. Subsidized by my electricity provider (SRP). Received a ten-pack of compact fluorescent bulbs, couple of low flow shower heads, and a couple of low flow faucet aerators. The firm doing the energy audit pressure tested for leaks, as well as checking common items I could check myself.

I found it worthwhile (if not just for the peace of mind). I used some of their recommendations. Insulation, weatherstripping, energy efficient appliances, etc.

AFAIK, not a scam. They were just trying to decrease energy inefficiencies in households. Expensive to build power plants.

------------------------------------------------------------

As an aside, I am providing a link to a U.S. DOE "Office of Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy" pdf file

Tips on Saving Money and Energy in Your Home
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/10/f37/Energy_Saver_Guide-2017-en.pdf

 

[joseywales]

Thanks for all of the responses. A lot of good to know information.

Man, if they want to help the grid, they should level my house and start over. There isn't enough caulk or duct tape to help the homes in this development.

The fee is $25, so very reasonable. It's usually $40ish I believe.

 

[Farmall450]

Free here. Will get one after Christmas.

 

[xjfish]

Gas company here in central MN charges $100, benefits not worth it for me IMHO.

Local utility (electric/water) company has never advertised or pushed an energy audit. I did get a "free" meter socket from them when I had an electrician do a service upgrade. I think they are happy to sell more electricity here.

 

[Earp69]

I just had one done here. You can get 2 versions done, one they come in with a flir camera and shoot for hot/cold spots depending on outside temp. Also checks attic insulation etc. The 2nd version they do the blower door test. Version 1 is 25 bucks, version 2 is a hundred bucks. But if you make any of there suggested improvements you get the cost of the audit back. The guy was thorough and I should have done this 5 years ago when I bought the house

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[Kevin54]

I had an energy audit done a few years back by our local Co-Op. It was free of charge. They did the blower door test and the FLIR. I received a wall switch thermometer, silicone caulk, couple of cans of spray insulation, and a report and pictures showing what I should do to further help things. Well worth it even if it was $100.

 

[RPH]

I have a buddy that retired as the senior power plant operator at Detriot Edison. His last plant was a summer time peaking plant. The boilers were up to pressure and they ran a small generator for there own in house power. When called to get online he had 1 hour to put the kilowatts online. Anything more than that and another plant got the order. It was always a race to get the big generator spinning up to speed and getting the boiler to push more steam.

 

[tdkkart]

Anybody remember the '70's and '80's, when they were BEGGING people to go "all-electric"?

Yep, and that's why my house, which was built in 1976, is one of the big users in the neighborhood. The heating has been switched to NG forced air, but I still have an electric water heater, electric dryer, and electric stove.