Anyone ever subdivide land?

[pmiranda]

I thought it'd be a good idea to buy an acre or so a little further out of town while it's still possible and relatively cheap, but most acreage is either part of a development which would have restrictions/zoning/etc not conducive to a garage-mahal, or it's 10+ acres and way more money than I'm comfortable spending. Anyone have experience buying a big piece of land and selling off a bunch of it? How long did it take? What problems did you run into?

 

[rodnok1]

Around here 2 acres min or it has to be re-zoned, just something to think about. You might have similiar restrictions in your area and might bite you. Is the land city water and sewer? If not the land has to pass perk tests or it's useless to break it up, some states it is very restrictive these days. You would have to pay for survey work also. It's gonna cost you money to make money(or break even) on buying and dividing land.

 

[logical]

Knowing your specific local zoning, code and property laws is critical and it's different everywhere. There are costs you may not realize. Let's say you buy 10 acres in an area that requires minimum 2.1 acre lots and well/septic systems.

You may be able to just pay the surveyors and fees to divide it up and sell...but your customer is now likely a developer and he'd rather buy his own chunk of land.

If you want to sell to individuals you may have to do test wells and perc tests/soil tests, more surveys, maybe deal with any wetlands regs, and still the legal and gov. fees to get it broken up.

Some areas may even require you to build fund sidewalks, streetlights, storm drains, etc....be very careful of this stuff.

 

[Packard V8]

What I found in two different states is developers have bought and paid for zoning codes and enforcement which makes it difficult-to-impossible for individuals to sub-divide.

When I wanted to sub-divide a parcel, I spent days and weeks in the zoning and planning departments and was told what I wanted was impossible. A local developer owed me a favor from helping him fix up and sell a classic car. I told him about the stonewalling I was getting. He went down and had the zoning and lot splits done in an hour. He said just what I told you above. The developers take care of the city/county employees so they will enforce the rules to the highest limit with individuals. Then, when the owner gets frustrated, they'll sell cheaper to a developer who can then get the zoning and permits easily and cheaply.

Your results may vary.

jack vines

 

[pmiranda]

Thanks guys, good advice...
I also thought about finding something in a light industrial area, but that's really tough to actually buy... most of that stuff is sewn up tight by the commercial developers that only want to lease it.

 

[luvair]

I tried for one property and it was a huge ordeal in my town. Needed to get approvals from all abutters(neighbors), get surveys, get sign offs for wetlands and coastal(if near waters) among other challenges. Ironically, I still felt it could be done over months, maybe years, but was become more downsides than upside potential for me.

Check with your town hall and local real estate attorney for experiences in your town. Good luck.

 

[djmartins]

The developers take care of the city/county employees so they will enforce the rules to the highest limit with individuals. Then, when the owner gets frustrated, they'll sell cheaper to a developer who can then get the zoning and permits easily and cheaply.

A fine example of corruption in America, the most corrupt country in the world.
This sort of thing needs to be stopped.....

 

[tdkkart]

Around here county law says you have to own 35 or 40 acres in one chunk in order to begin to consider dividing it off. They've even ******* farmers from selling off a building lot out of the corner of the farm.
There are a few places left that have timber ground available in 5 acre plots.

 

[rosssloan68]

i have done this several times. i call it buying a $2500 piece of paper. find your self the local civil engineering firm. tell them how you want it split up. if you are talking a lot of acreage and a lot of subdividing then plan on buying a whole bunch of $2500 pieces of paper. the last time i did this i split four five acre tracts off of a forty and in the end ended up with a free 20 acre parcel. in todays economy i would have ended up with four $2500 pieces of paper and a spot in bancruptcy court. be careful with real estate right now.

 

[KenB]

One more thing . When I purchased some bare ("unimproved") land adjacent to my property, I was surprised to learn that I couldn't get a mortgage on it. I ended up using cash, but my only other option was to open a second mortgage on my house. When the sale went through, the township decided to assess the property at an absurdly high value, which I then had to fight (and I won!). YMMV.


Ken

 

[logical]

One more thing . When I purchased some bare ("unimproved") land adjacent to my property, I was surprised to learn that I couldn't get a mortgage on it. I ended up using cash, but my only other option was to open a second mortgage on my house. When the sale went through, the township decided to assess the property at an absurdly high value, which I then had to fight (and I won!). YMMV.


Ken

That's another good point to consider. Vacant land that you don't live on is often taxed at absurdly high rates compared to land considered your "homestead". I own the empty lot next to me but elected not to combine the lots (out of fear that undoing it later since it is not garanteed). They did however, since it is adjacent to my "homestead", let me declare it part of my "homestead" and get the lower rate.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I have a buddy that did this in Michigan 15-20 years ago, and he still has to sell his first lot on his 40.

He is not close to me but up near Frankenmuth

 

[T1320T]

Good advise ^^, make sure to check local restrictions, laws & covenants. Locally, we have a "1 time sell off rule" which means that you can sell of 1 parcel, after that you need to go through either subdivision or minor subdivsion procedures.

 

[Grumpy365]

The big thing is access. In my area you have to have 110' of road front to build on a piece of property, regardless of if the property bells out or not.

 

[MScott]

When buying your large piece of land, you can get lucky if the parcel is intersected by roads. In my case, I have a 100 acre long, narrow parcel that is crossed by two roads so there are three "natural severances." I am selling a 50 acre parcel which contains my house to my daughter and SIL, will be building a new house (smaller) on the central 30 acres and will sell an additional 20 acres on the other side of the road to my brother, all without the cost and hassle of obtaining legal severances.
If you haven't yet purchased your land, you might keep this possibility in mind.

 

[Ezzie]

In late 2005 I bought a small 11 acre "hobby" farm from an 80 yr. old couple who wanted to move into the nearest town, closer to families, hospital, etc. It is on a main paved road in the country and he had already started a severance application. It got bogged down due to a dispute with one of his neighbours though and he just wanted out. I bought the place and completed the severance (and paid all the bills of course!). Min. severance was 2 acres and it cost me a little over $6k by the time I paid all the permits, surveyor, special municipality taxes, etc. Then I turned around and sold it for about $175K and used the cash to build my shop and fix the place up. Problem in our area is the land has a special Gov't desination as "Greenbelt" which makes it very difficult to develop and there are a lot of rules. The legislation is intended to confine urban sprawl outward to the north around the Greater Toronto Area and disallows higher density severances for subdivisions, etc. and the destruction of some of the best farmland in the country.

 

[Packard V8]

i have done this several times. i call it buying a $2500 piece of paper. find your self the local civil engineering firm. tell them how you want it split up. if you are talking a lot of acreage and a lot of subdividing then plan on buying a whole bunch of $2500 pieces of paper.

Yep, if you go in cold in many jurisdictions it is impossible to subdivide. However, if the local chiselers; civil engineers, surveyors, title insurance, closing attorneys, realtors, banks get their cut all the problems vanish. But then, so do all your projected profits.

jack vines