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Anyone familiar with EPS Building-Solid Core Buildings?

SShink

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I'm going to put up a 30X32X12 pole barn for a shop/man cave, and someone on a Facebook garage page recommended looking into EPS Buildings: http://www.epsbuildings.com/solid-core.php

Turns out, they are VERY competitive with the steel outer/OSB/styrofoam/OSB construction method. They are $8-9K less than a standard pole barn, and that's WITH R18 wall insulation. I'm in MN, so would likely bump up the insulation to R26 for just another $1K more.

Is anyone familiar with them or this type of construction?

I'm still vetting it out, but so far looks like the best way to go.
 
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I've built a few homes with this method. They do very well. The first one I built was in the mid 1990s when they burst on to the scene. It was poorly designed and executed as a product and I sent the representative home with a lot to think about. They have improved a good deal over the years.
 

Voi

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I talked to this company back when we were considering SIPs for our cabin.

It is a hard topic to search on Garage Journal due to the three letter acronym. Best to use Google and include site:garagejournal.com in your search queries.

Back then as I recall they didn't have the solid-core designation. Their shop packages were very inexpensive but the prices were with trusses and not SIP roof panels.

Remember you'd have the full upfront foundation costs with this type of construction so comparing it to a pole barn building package isn't necessarily a direct comparison.

However, some have used SIPs in place of girts and metal on pole barns. I'm not sure how the SIP to slab or SIP to ground detail is dealt with in this type of construction.
 

Jbullfrog

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As long as you can keep birds and mice out, it's ok. Spray foam is more expensive, but adds structural rigidity to the building in addition to an air tight shell.
 

yeldogt

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I/2 of my studio is SLP's -- walls and roof panels. Mine is simple panels 36 x 32 with 10' walls -- cathedral ceiling w/ pipe collar ties. Three windows on one side and twin 4x8 hinged doors on the end (8x8 opening).

It's on a regular foundation -- came with drywall interior on each panel -- the outside pine shiplap applied after structure was up. All the services must be surface mounted.

They are great buildings -- it's incredibly quiet and energy efficient. Like being in a cooler.

I did a timber frame building and used the panels on the exterior for part of it -- in that building the interior wall was not included and the panels had custom routed spaces for utilities.
 

theoldwizard1

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There are several video series on YouTube about SIP building assembly. It can be a DIY build except maybe for the SIP roof panels. A typical gable roof usually requires a true ridge beam supported on each end by a column.

Most of these builds use a 2by (6 or 8 or 10 or even 12) lumber to splice the panels together. An 4'x8' panel can easily be erected by 2 people with no extra equipment. Adding some material handling equipment save a lot of time in move each panel from the storage pile to where it will be installed. Standard width is 4' but I think the make lengths up to 24' !

For DIY, there are a couple of tools you should invest in. A couple of impact drivers (or maybe even a collated screw gun), a battery operated large capacity caulking gun (you will use an ENORMOUS amount of adhesive), 4' and maybe 6' level.


If I ever build a house, it will use SIPs.
 
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honEXduner

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There are several video series on YouTube about SIP building assembly. It can be a DIY build except maybe for the SIP roof panels. A typical gable roof usually requires a true ridge beam supported on each end by a column.

Most of these builds use a 2by (6 or 8 or 10 or even 12) lumbver to splice the panels together. An 4'x8' panel can easily be erected by 2 people with no extra equipment. Adding some material handling equipment save a lot of time in move each panel from the storage pile to where it will be installed. Standard width is 4' but I think the make lengths up to 24' !

For DIY, there are a couple of tools you should invest in. A couple of impact drivers (or maybe even a collated screw gun), a battery operated large capacity caulking gun (you will use an ENORMOUS amount of adhesive), 4' and maybe 6' level.


If I ever build a house, it will use SIPs.

All of what he said and get two of the electric caulking guns - makes for quick work of joining panels. Hot knife is helpful too if having to make site cut joints or reliefs due to foundation tolerances.
 

Stuart in MN

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My neighbor built his garage with SIP panels some years ago. It's a 3 car, with a second story for his wife's studio. It went together very quickly with the help of a crane, is very easy to heat or cool, and is very quiet inside. At that time he had to look for a while to find a contractor who would work with SIP panels for a reasonable price (I think mainly because not many were familiar with them), it may be easier today.
 

Gummi Bear

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There is SIP, and there is ICF.

ICF is solid core. Basically it’s an engineered styrofoam block system, that you slurry fill with concrete. Add whatever finish you like on the inside and outside. Really high insulation value.

I’ve worked on both building types. Both have pros and cons, and their own idiosyncrasies.

I would consider building either type of structure on my own dime.



I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...

Henry David Thoreau
 

Lelandwelds

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The chipped wood block concrete stuff is impressive. Fastwall and another company. Aerated autoclaves concrete is cool too.

My favorite is tilt wall with a thick layer of XPS on the outside. I watched a 2 X 4 shot from a cannon at 175 miles an hour. Toothpicks. Loved tilt wall ever since.

I have seen an earthship in New Mexico. I saw a strawbale house being built in North Texas. There's some off grid hippies who built houses in West Texas from newspaper and borate. They drive in circles dragging a rear end with the yoke poking through a barrel. It has a lawnmower blade inside. When the paper is re pulped, they dump spit wads into slip forms. When dry, they move the forms up.

Conventional is easier to get past bankers, code enforcement, and HOA. Hard to believe anything is less expensive ro build than a pole barn or red iron.
 
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MushCreek

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I was going to go with steel skinned SIP's for our house. They don't use solid lumber to join panels, so less thermal transfer. I wound up going ICF because it was easier for one old man working alone, and there's an ICF contractor about a mile from my house. I stacked and braced the walls, but hired his crew to fill them with concrete. It makes an icredibly strong, quiet, and efficient structure, but it's not the cheapest route. Had I had the money, I would have roofed the house with SIP panels.
 

yeldogt

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I think the whole point would be to build the whole building out of SIP's -- including the roof ...and that requires a crane. These things are all designed and manufactured in a factory -- they come basically as a kit. Most around me are 2x6 framing lumber on the edges -- they have the cutouts for the framing attachments -- it all flows together and bolts together.

The roof panels are self supporting on the utility buildings. Obviously, there are limitations in the size of the roof ....
 

honEXduner

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I think the whole point would be to build the whole building out of SIP's -- including the roof ...and that requires a crane. These things are all designed and manufactured in a factory -- they come basically as a kit. Most around me are 2x6 framing lumber on the edges -- they have the cutouts for the framing attachments -- it all flows together and bolts together.

The roof panels are self supporting on the utility buildings. Obviously, there are limitations in the size of the roof ....

Depending on the size, they can be assembled with only a telehandler. Fun part is the glue lam ridge beams with the fork but it is doable most times.
 

yeldogt

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Depending on the size, they can be assembled with only a telehandler. Fun part is the glue lam ridge beams with the fork but it is doable most times.


That would be dangerous ... the roof panels are long.

My building is not new -- it's pushing 20 years. While it has a ridge -- it's not structural in that the ridge is supported on the gable ends to the foundation. The roof panels all lock together and lock to the walls ........ are self supporting.

some of the new ones are really slick -- they interlock and others have splines.
 
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honEXduner

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That would be dangerous ... the roof panels are long.

My building is not new -- it's pushing 20 years. While it has a ridge -- it's not structural in that the ridge is supported on the gable ends to the foundation. The roof panels all lock together and lock to the walls ........ are self supporting.

some of the new ones are really slick -- they interlock and others have splines.

Not necessarily, depends on the size, layout and lifting fixtures. I set an entire house and garage, including glue lams with nothing more than a JLG Telehandler. Granted our roof panels were 8'x~18' or 20' long I believe with splines to interlock.
 

theoldwizard1

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At that time he had to look for a while to find a contractor who would work with SIP panels for a reasonable price (I think mainly because not many were familiar with them), it may be easier today.

A friend of a friend had the same problem ! Contractors were had a ridiculous up charge for assembling a SIP house. He wound up going with double 2x4 exterior walls.
 
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theoldwizard1

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I was going to go with steel skinned SIP's for our house. They don't use solid lumber to join panels, so less thermal transfer.
Most architects and SIP manufacturers want you to go with 2by splines for more structural capacity, especially on homes that have a second floor.
 

jack stand

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I went to a 3 day seminar on sip's construction. The "teacher" stressed over & over about the importance of sealing the panels at the seams and pay particular attn. to the ridge of a SIP's roof. The slightest air leak (condensation) WILL cause eventual panel de-lamination & structural failure. Not a simple repair. He also stressed interior moisture (from people living, cooking, laundry, showers, ect) and the importance of the "V" in hvac in terms of a serious HRV system. Now he may have just been trying to put "the fear of God" in us in no uncertain terms, but it's one of the possible issues that stuck with me.
He has built over 300 sip homes in the VA area and had very good class imo. He also noted that (in VA) he only used 3 1/2" walls, it was the air tight qualities that made the difference over even the latest "air sealing" methods, like 5 times MORE air tight over stick framing.

edit; this was the reason why I asked the OP if the sip's panel mfr. was erecting the shell.
 
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Randy in Maine

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My 28x40x12 building uses SIPs. But it pretty much just a big rectangle. My ceiling used the "SIP ceiling panels" and I have a conventional cold roof on trusses. Very tight, very strong, and very energy efficient. I bought the other lumber stuff locally.

Mine are made polyurethane foam, but you can get them also in EPS for less money.

I got mine from here http://www.murus.com/
 

yeldogt

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I would like to see that on a video !

The panels are basically 2x6's or 8's with foam -- it's no different vs typical construction. The roof on a framed house does not have a structural ridge -- you only need one if no collar ties. The ridge is just a nailing surface.
 

850xpeps

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Around here they are priced high. I would personally stick with and icf wall.
 

Lelandwelds

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I think the length limit comes from 20 ft OSB being the longest common length at a reasonable cost.

The snap lock style of metal ones used for coolers on the interior of conventional buildings can be any length that can be trucked. The fancier load bearing exterior kind has integral rain screens and bolted connections. They can join panels for longer lengths. They make some huge factories and refrigerated warehouses out of the stuff. I think one of the cooler features is the 30 year paint job applied at the factory.

I still think conventional stick built with spray foam is hard to beat for housing. Red iron or pole barn gets the nod for utility buildings and garages.
 

theoldwizard1

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I still think conventional stick built with spray foam is hard to beat for housing. Red iron or pole barn gets the nod for utility buildings and garages.

Applying 10-12" of spray foam to the underside of roof decking is hard to do. Even harder to make it look half way decent.
 

DChristiansen

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They’re going to start framing my SIP house/post frame shop house next week. It is a total package from EPS in Iowa. 1920 sq ft house and 60x80 Shop.
 

Randy in Maine

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My kind of iong story so skip it if you wish...

I had a basic idea of what I wanted in my 28x40x12 garage back in 2009 (during the mortgage crisis so a lot of people were not too busy) and took my general plan to my local building supply company. They drew up the plans on autocad for me for $100 (and applied the $100 to my first lumber purchase).

My local excavator guy was a huge help. He knew everyone. He pointed me to the good concrete guy, the good electrician, and the good paver guy for the driveway. I wanted good guys and was willing to pay them to do good work. They all did without exception.

It helps to have a good concrete guy. The guy I used was used to doing commercial buildings and my job was so small he did it in his "slack time" and gave me a deal since I was not in a big rush. He able to get the 8" thick stemwalls (4' deep for me) on 24" footers level and square. He was right on the money for square and within about 1/4" for level. That was good.

My carpenter guy (a buddy) had never put one together before, but he and his teenage helper guy and me sometimes did it all without a crane. In a week we had the "box" up and secured. The panels were only about maybe 200 pounds each and were basically 4' wide x 12' tall.

A PT 2x8 was screwed to the top of the stemwalls and a 2x6 was screwed to that. My SIPS were sort of grooved to straddle those 2x6. My panels used a "cam" to sort of lock them to the next panel. Lots of construction adhesive, spray foam between panels, and big nails. 2x6s screwed together locked up the corners. On top of the SIPS another 2x6 locked them together from the top and another 2x6 on top of that for the tusses. Again lots of construction adhesive and nails. LDLs beams were used over my 2 8x8 garage doors.

The guys who built the trusses delivered them to the roof for an extra $100. Money well spent.

My ceiling SIPs hang from the trusses (with more adhesive, spray foam and screws, and that really tightened up the whole building. The actual roof is cold though and has soffit and a ridge vent vents. I put sheetrock on the bottom of the ceiling panels and painted it white. My interior walls are all 1x8 shiplapped pine that I put poly on because I wanted it that way. My exterior uses pine log siding stained to of match my cedar log house. It works.

My shop is sort of over built though. I beefed up the roof trusses from 2x4 24" OC to 2x6 ones 16" OC. I used Advantek plywood roofing 5/8" thick vs 1/2". I wanted it to be strong and for me not to worry about snowloads. It is quiet also since I live with close neighbors.

I paid about $20K for the high quality SIPs delivered. They are likely more than that now but I would still do it again that way.

I have radiant floor heat in there on top of 6" of 4000 psi insulated concrete and it stays very comfy all winter and summer. For cheap money heat.

The big savings for me using SIPs over stick built is that they are all built in a factory where everything is controlled during the construction process. Everything was delivered to my jobsite on one semi in about 4 weeks well packaged. All of the adhesive, spray foam, big screws, etc. and instructions came with it. My big savings were in the labor to make it happen quickly and there was very little waste for me to deal with (at $120 per ton). Even here in Maine it can be tough to find really good quality lumber stock even though I had a really good local lumber company to work with and they did very well and saved me numerous times.

My wife's next husband will be impressed.

Sorry that was so long.
 
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theoldwizard1

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My big savings were in the labor to make it happen quickly
As mentioned before, general contractor have very little experience with SIPs. Probably not many framers either, but they would pick up on the system very quickly. Crane operators would have no issues assuming the panels are rigged properly for lifting.

You need a good on-site supervisor/inspector to make sure adequate adhesive is used in the proper locations and the proper size and number of fasteners are used.


Did your SIP company help you locate GCs and framers ?
 

theoldwizard1

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My shop is sort of over built though. I beefed up the roof trusses from 2x4 24" OC to 2x6 ones 16" OC. I used Advantek plywood roofing 5/8" thick vs 1/2". I wanted it to be strong and for me not to worry about snowloads. It is quiet also since I live with close neighbors.

2x6 16" OC ! How much snow do you get up there in Maine or do you have a 2:12 pitched roof ! :bounce:
 

yeldogt

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My kind of iong story so skip it if you wish...

I had a basic idea of what I wanted in my 28x40x12 garage back in 2009 (during the mortgage crisis so a lot of people were not too busy) and took my general plan to my local building supply company. They drew up the plans on autocad for me for $100 (and applied the $100 to my first lumber purchase).

My local excavator guy was a huge help. He knew everyone. He pointed me to the good concrete guy, the good electrician, and the good paver guy for the driveway. I wanted good guys and was willing to pay them to do good work. They all did without exception.

It helps to have a good concrete guy. The guy I used was used to doing commercial buildings and my job was so small he did it in his "slack time" and gave me a deal since I was not in a big rush. He able to get the 8" thick stemwalls (4' deep for me) on 24" footers level and square. He was right on the money for square and within about 1/4" for level. That was good.

My carpenter guy (a buddy) had never put one together before, but he and his teenage helper guy and me sometimes did it all without a crane. In a week we had the "box" up and secured. The panels were only about maybe 200 pounds each and were basically 4' wide x 12' tall.

A PT 2x8 was screwed to the top of the stemwalls and a 2x6 was screwed to that. My SIPS were sort of grooved to straddle those 2x6. My panels used a "cam" to sort of lock them to the next panel. Lots of construction adhesive, spray foam between panels, and big nails. 2x6s screwed together locked up the corners. On top of the SIPS another 2x6 locked them together from the top and another 2x6 on top of that for the tusses. Again lots of construction adhesive and nails. LDLs beams were used over my 2 8x8 garage doors.

The guys who built the trusses delivered them to the roof for an extra $100. Money well spent.

My ceiling SIPs hang from the trusses (with more adhesive, spray foam and screws, and that really tightened up the whole building. The actual roof is cold though and has soffit and a ridge vent vents. I put sheetrock on the bottom of the ceiling panels and painted it white. My interior walls are all 1x8 shiplapped pine that I put poly on because I wanted it that way. My exterior uses pine log siding stained to of match my cedar log house. It works.

My shop is sort of over built though. I beefed up the roof trusses from 2x4 24" OC to 2x6 ones 16" OC. I used Advantek plywood roofing 5/8" thick vs 1/2". I wanted it to be strong and for me not to worry about snowloads. It is quiet also since I live with close neighbors.

I paid about $20K for the high quality SIPs delivered. They are likely more than that now but I would still do it again that way.

I have radiant floor heat in there on top of 6" of 4000 psi insulated concrete and it stays very comfy all winter and summer. For cheap money heat.

The big savings for me using SIPs over stick built is that they are all built in a factory where everything is controlled during the construction process. Everything was delivered to my jobsite on one semi in about 4 weeks well packaged. All of the adhesive, spray foam, big screws, etc. and instructions came with it. My big savings were in the labor to make it happen quickly and there was very little waste for me to deal with (at $120 per ton). Even here in Maine it can be tough to find really good quality lumber stock even though I had a really good local lumber company to work with and they did very well and saved me numerous times.

My wife's next husband will be impressed.

Sorry that was so long.

Are your roof panels horizontal across the roof? -- mine are soffit to ridge.
 

Randy in Maine

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My ceiling panels are basically 4x8 sheets of 1/2" OSB with 6" of foam and a 1/2 sheet of sort of a "homasote" stuff (used as a sound deadener) that make up my flat interior ceiling screwd into the flat part of the trusses. The sheetrock, then the garage door tracks, and the lights are mounted to the ceiling panels.

The 5/8" Advantek plywood makes up the 6/12 pitch roof with bitchathane and 40 year architectural shingles on top of that. Matches my house.

I guess my carpenter and I were the GC. They sent a pretty good manual for how to put it all together, but mine (since it is just a big rectangle with few doors and windows) was pretty simple compared to the pretty elaborate houses that they make out of these things. Even I could figure it out.
 

yeldogt

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My ceiling panels are basically 4x8 sheets of 1/2" OSB with 6" of foam and a 1/2 sheet of sort of a "homasote" stuff (used as a sound deadener) that make up my flat interior ceiling screwd into the flat part of the trusses. The sheetrock, then the garage door tracks, and the lights are mounted to the ceiling panels.

The 5/8" Advantek plywood makes up the 6/12 pitch roof with bitchathane and 40 year architectural shingles on top of that. Matches my house.

I guess my carpenter and I were the GC. They sent a pretty good manual for how to put it all together, but mine (since it is just a big rectangle with few doors and windows) was pretty simple compared to the pretty elaborate houses that they make out of these things. Even I could figure it out.

Oh -- I get it ... ceiling panels. My roof structure is SIP's --- just panels for there roof. No flat ceiling -- pipe collar ties.
 
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