Anyone have a Bridgeport rebuilt?

[alfadan]

I have a bridgeport mill I bought a couple years ago. It is clapped out; ways are worn out in the middles and 98 percent of the flaking is gone. Some jackwagons ran grease in it. I am considering sending the column, knee and saddle/table to be ground/scraped, and I'm wondering if anyone has gone through this process.

I haven't called any rebuilders yet. Any recommendations for these services?

 

[kaymccampbell]

I did it about 50 years ago. It was a labor of love. And hate. I was so glad when it was over. So many late evenings. I did it from a pair of books one printed in the 50s, the other the 20s. One about disassembly, assembly and maintenance, another about manually straightening, flattening, scraping, etc all the critical surfaces of worn out machine tools. The books and mill are long gone, but I'm sure they're still available, as folks do this kind of thing all the time.

 

[RoninB4]

-Kay described it well as a labor of love....and hate. I've done several tear-downs for repair but never a full restoration. It really is a lot of work scraping in all the ways of table/saddle/knee and then there's wear in the quill housing to address. Sending it out to the pros may result in price sticker shock. It's a lot of money because it's a lot of work. The last time I looked there was various levels of rebuild with corresponding prices.

As a retired toolmaker I really do understand the desire to have a machine in a better state of accuracy but are you being practical? I also have an older BP that's not been treated kindly, someone even attempted to fake flaking from hand scraping with an angle grinder. I view machining tolerance and accuracy as matching the expectation to the appropriate machine. Excessive precision, where not needed, is wasted time/money. I don't need a jig grinder to make a clearance hole. Likewise, I can't expect the drill press to create guide bushing hole for a stamping die.

I don't feel you can expect greater accuracy from a BP than +/- .003 in any operation even on a new one. It's possible but you shouldn't expect it. When I need greater accuracy I get it close in the BP and then use the surface grinder, jig borer, or another machine capable. What I'm getting at is the nature of the work you use the BP for. Will the number of times you really need that accuracy be worth what you pay for in the rebuild? A BP will always be little more than a graduated drill press.

You could consider getting a used grinder (less than $2000) for sizing and square-to-sides, using toolmaker buttons (locations), using the faceplate on the lathe (boring), or just sending the work out for those special jobs. Or you could simply replace the BP with another one in better condition.

Please excuse the long winded reply....couldn't sleep.

 

[cvairwerks]

May be cheaper to simply replace it vs overhauling it.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

These are the guys you want to call about rebuilding:

Home

Your trusted source for Bridgeport Machine Replacement Parts and Services. We're the best place to get metalworking parts & services online!

machinerypartsdepot.com

As others have suggested it may not be worth it. It is possible that having a good used machine shipped to you would be cheaper than sending yours out for a rebuild.

 

[alfadan]

Thanks for the replies. I've been studying how to do it myself and I believe I just don't have the skillset and desire to invest in the tools. A labor of love indeed!
I might talk to these companies and see if I can get a "trade in value" on it as I'm sure it has good parts value. If I could get this old American iron back to good condition for say half the price of new, and I don't expect too much from this "glorified drill press" lol.

Anyway, just ponderin' at the moment; I like the loks of a new Wells-Index base machine. They want 13k to start, and it's an all USA machine, which I find appealing, though not a total necessity.

 

[jmarkwolf]

I had a well-worn 1967 Series One in my home shop, that I considered having refurbed as a retirement gift to myself a few years back, but they wanted $10,000. I ended up buying a new Acer eMill for significantly less. The money from selling my old Bridgeport brought the net price down to about $6500.

 

[tool_scrounge]

I would buy a used but in excellent condition Bridgeport, Wells Index or equivalent replacement then sell you current mill. Unless you doing a rebuild is labor of love, it is not worth it financially.

 

[alfadan]

I will add that this seems to be a used machine desert, which is odd because of all the aircraft and oil field work that was done here. Since I bought my mill I haven't seen a single one for sale; don't use FB so no idea if they're on there though I really doubt it.

 

[JSGAuto]

I rebuilt mine. I didn't want to, but I bought it for the cost of scrap when a coworker was moving out of state. I replaced all the bearings, cleaned/rebuild/oiled every thing. I had to source some replacement parts for the down feed and a new motor $$$$.......I didn't touch the bed/ways they were in decent enough shape.

It took an enormous amount of time, and likely did not change the value of the machine much.

I looked into having one professionally rebuilt for work, and it was 20K+ any replacement parts. I bought a brand new Taiwan copy with DROs/Power feeds for $15K shipped instead.

Buy one that is already done.

 

[tool_scrounge]

I will add that this seems to be a used machine desert, which is odd because of all the aircraft and oil field work that was done here. Since I bought my mill I haven't seen a single one for sale; don't use FB so no idea if they're on there though I really doubt it.

For big ticket items, I will shop outside my local market if needed. I have had friends go look at machinery for me in distant locations. Or if it looks quite promising, buy plane tickets to look at the mill in person and supervise the palletizing of it for shipping.

 

[vanapplebomb]

Wells-Index in Michigan rebuilds milling machines. Very nice shop to work with.

 

[American Locomotive]

Realistically I think you could expect to pay at least $6000-7000 minimum to have the thing rebuild (new nuts, lead screws, bearings, ways ground and scraped.

The question is: Will you get $6000 worth of additional value out of that mill? For most things a hobbyist will do at home, a cheap DRO setup, replacing/splitting the leadscrew nuts, snugging up the ways and cleaning any grease out with fresh way oil will go a long way to making the machine much more usable.

I understand that tightening up the nuts and/or ways may lead to binding on the extreme of the table travel, but how often are you making parts that big?

 

[alfadan]

One thing is, I was dumb enough to put new leadscrews and nuts in it! The tightness on the ends of both axis limits me to about half the travel.

 

[MichaelP]

Good suggestions. I went through restoring mine when I bought it about 15 years ago. Cleaning, many new parts, lubrication system unclogging, new motor, DRO and power feeds, etc. It took a lot of effort, time and money. I'd never even consider sending it for re-scraping, etc. Either trade it in or buy another milling machine in a much better or new condition. And it's a good time to decide if you want a CNC mill instead.

Good luck and please let us know how it worked for you.

 

[Sumboodie]

-Kay described it well as a labor of love....and hate. I've done several tear-downs for repair but never a full restoration. It really is a lot of work scraping in all the ways of table/saddle/knee and then there's wear in the quill housing to address. Sending it out to the pros may result in price sticker shock. It's a lot of money because it's a lot of work. The last time I looked there was various levels of rebuild with corresponding prices.

As a retired toolmaker I really do understand the desire to have a machine in a better state of accuracy but are you being practical? I also have an older BP that's not been treated kindly, someone even attempted to fake flaking from hand scraping with an angle grinder. I view machining tolerance and accuracy as matching the expectation to the appropriate machine. Excessive precision, where not needed, is wasted time/money. I don't need a jig grinder to make a clearance hole. Likewise, I can't expect the drill press to create guide bushing hole for a stamping die.

I don't feel you can expect greater accuracy from a BP than +/- .003 in any operation even on a new one. It's possible but you shouldn't expect it. When I need greater accuracy I get it close in the BP and then use the surface grinder, jig borer, or another machine capable. What I'm getting at is the nature of the work you use the BP for. Will the number of times you really need that accuracy be worth what you pay for in the rebuild? A BP will always be little more than a graduated drill press.

You could consider getting a used grinder (less than $2000) for sizing and square-to-sides, using toolmaker buttons (locations), using the faceplate on the lathe (boring), or just sending the work out for those special jobs. Or you could simply replace the BP with another one in better condition.

Please excuse the long winded reply....couldn't sleep.

Dang..

And me... meh + - 1/16"... more than close enough. Not going to the moon!

Haha

 

[OccupantRJ]

I bought several Bridgeports in one short time period and lined them up in the shop, then went over the frames to pick the best one as far as wear. I took the best small parts off them and a table feed off one of them to make up my personal machine. Afterwards I sold all the excess machines to various people. I ended up with my complete machine plus $300 when done, so I was OK with that. I spent 5 months on the mill as a retirement project getting it like I wanted it. I mixed black and gray to get the color I wanted.

 

[alfadan]

Got an informal quote from Morral Machine. $10,500 for everything and $8,000 without headwork.

 

[American Locomotive]

One thing is, I was dumb enough to put new leadscrews and nuts in it! The tightness on the ends of both axis limits me to about half the travel.

You could loosen the gibs just a smidge to get your travel back. Really the only thing I've noticed from having super loose gibs on a Bridgeport is you might get some chatter if they're really loose. If the screw and nut have little backlash (which they should, since they're new), you can still make pretty decent parts even with a little slop in the ways.

 

[whateg01]

I will add that this seems to be a used machine desert, which is odd because of all the aircraft and oil field work that was done here. Since I bought my mill I haven't seen a single one for sale; don't use FB so no idea if they're on there though I really doubt it.

I drove to Dallas to get my series 1 clone (actual brand is Newport). There are some machines around. Halls has stuff, for example. But because of where we are, everybody wants new prices, and somebody keeps paying them. I paid $1000 for mine. It's worn but makes parts. Came with servo x axis power feed. Original 3ph motor and mit dro. If you watch Tulsa, ft Smith, and Dallas, decent stuff comes up.

 

[MichaelP]

Got an informal quote from Morral Machine. $10,500 for everything and $8,000 without headwork.

Half price of a new Bridgeport.

 

[AEAdam]

I think we need to separate scraping from rebuilding, not to be pedantic, but to differentiate skilled work from diy work.

You can diy a tear down, clean, parts replacement, paint, & bearing swap. This is a lot of work, but 100% doable. I would not pay someone to do this. Just like auto repair, the rebuilders I know use premium parts like bearings. They could easily charge you $600 for bearings in a step pulley. I rebuilt mine for less than half that. VFD not included, I probably only have $500 of spare parts in mine including all new bearings.

Scraping, as much as people talk about it, doesn’t make an enormous difference to a mill’s ability to hold tolerances. You can add table lock to mitigate slop, for example. I’d say mills, unlike lathes, are very tolerant of wear.

So you could rebuild, clean etc for not much money and have a nice mill. Scraping, to me, is akin to blueprinting an engine. It will give you absolutely the top performance the machine is capable of. In my opinion, too many believe it’s the only way to get the machine to function. That said, I would get quotes only for rescraping the knee and saddle and go from there.

Btw, bridgeport recommended greasing the slide ways at one time. It’s in the manual.

 

[alfadan]

See, I don't understand not "blueprinting" a machine tool. If it's back to factory specs and done with reasonable quality, you know it's good and any problems you're having are not due to the machine (within it's limits anyway). If going to the trouble of shipping all that iron, might as well do it all the way. IMHO.

My saddle is so worn, with the gib, with something like 25 thou of shims (!), adjusted in the middle I can't bring it out the last 3 inches or the back 3 inches. The x axis I can't use 8 inches on either end. The table has dings over the entire surface. I think someone was milling cinder blocks or some **** with this poor machine!

 

[American Locomotive]

Then take some shims out so you can get more travel. You very rarely need the full travel of the machine. If you do need full travel, does it matter if there's a little bit of slop in the middle of the table? Dings on the table typically don't matter too much, as there is usually a vise mounted to it.

Ultimately what it comes down to is if the wear in the machine is impeding you from doing what you need it to. Are you a hobbyist, or trying to run a business? If you're a hobbyist, is the wear in the machine that bad that it's affecting your work?

I'd probably look for a better, used machine from a local tool dealer before spending 10k on a rebuild.

 

[MichaelP]

Maybe it doesn't make sense to restore the machine if it's too worn? Also, if you want to truly restore to the factory specs, you'll have to replace worn metal. Sure it will be much better anyway, but does it make sense? This is not a rarity that must be restored because it's not available otherwise.

 

[whateg01]

Then take some shims out so you can get more travel. You very rarely need the full travel of the machine. If you do need full travel, does it matter if there's a little bit of slop in the middle of the table? Dings on the table typically don't matter too much, as there is usually a vise mounted to it.

Ultimately what it comes down to is if the wear in the machine is impeding you from doing what you need it to. Are you a hobbyist, or trying to run a business? If you're a hobbyist, is the wear in the machine that bad that it's affecting your work?

I'd probably look for a better, used machine from a local tool dealer before spending 10k on a rebuild.

The only real tool dealer local is overpriced and ok with it. There really isn't much local that isn't just as worn out since half of the population (yes that's hyperbole) is a machinist.

 

[AEAdam]

Maybe it doesn't make sense to restore the machine if it's too worn? Also, if you want to truly restore to the factory specs, you'll have to replace worn metal. Sure it will be much better anyway, but does it make sense? This is not a rarity that must be restored because it's not available otherwise.

He may not have to do that. Again, this isn’t a lathe. You can remove more metal than you would think from a mill and have no real side effects (Aside from shimming the gibs).

Here’s the key. If you want your machine rescraped for whatever reason, you might be able to get that done reasonably by doing the math and understanding the impacts. For example: how bad is your column and specifically how much does .005” of column wear change the knee angle enough to effect the parts you are making?

If the table is really whacked, you might be able to source a replacement for less than the cost of the repair. The scenario is, send the knee and saddle out, replace the table, bobs your uncle. All of these components can be shipped, fairly easily.

 

[alfadan]

Not having the full travel is more of a pain than it might seem. Just yesterday I was drilling a holenin the middle of 9 inch plate. I had to get a bar on the Y crank to force the table back enough to get there. I could loosen the gib up if I take the wiper plate off the front each time this happens. Anyway I hear what you're saying, but the slop with loose gibs, and having to worry about banana shaped parts bugs me.

Good thoughts from everyone and I appreciate it. Will update with whatever happens.

 

[rancherbill]

I assume you are a hobbyist.

Join this forum and say something like I want to rebuild this and also learn how to scrape. This forum is full of amateur and professional machinists. They will tell you all the tips and tricks, where to source parts and how to scrape.

https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/

 

[whateg01]

...I had to get a bar on the Y crank to force the table back enough to get there. ...

Next time it might be easier to move the ram

 

[Firebrick43]

As a CNC machine repairman I have rebuilt and scraped half a dozen series 2 bridgeports. Its a lot of work and three of us worked on one at a time. And after all day at the end of a scraper or biax power scraper you are beat up. I don't know how guys did it every day, all day at the factory.

I personally would never do a series 1 Bridgeport. They are not all that stiff or great of machines. I cant really tell you who to use as the guys I know that are good only rebuild for big accounts on plant shutdowns, and don't work on general public machines.

I can tell you not do use H & W out of Ft Wayne. I have seen a few of their "full rebuilds". One nice colchester lathe was trashed as they couldn't be bothered to even change the old round oil circulation belt and it failed. It was decades past replacement time, they had "rebuilt" it 6 months before I was called to look at it. The bridgeport setting next to it had not been scraped either

 

[Nortonscustom]

At my previous employer we bought/traded and had a couple mills and surface grinders rebuilt from these guys. Quality work at a competitive price.

https://bridgeportmachinerebuilders.com/

You mention a machine tool "desert" and that might not be a bad thing. Last year a friend of mine in eastern Montana sold an old round ram Bridgeport for $3500 just because machine tools are very scarce. I found him a really clean Series 1 with tooling for $2500 in Elkgrove Village (suburb of Chicago) where there's tons of machine tools always for sale. If you choose not not fix yours I'd sell it and look around Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis and their surrounding suburbs.

 

[paulsomlo]

Here's another option for rebuilding, but I don't think you'll like the price: https://babinmachinesales.com/bridgeport-rebuilding

 

[RoninB4]

I found him a really clean Series 1 with tooling for $2500 in Elkgrove Village (suburb of Chicago) where there's tons of machine tools always for sale. If you choose not not fix yours I'd sell it and look around Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis and their surrounding suburbs.

-I've worked in Elk Grove Village several times over my years in Chicago and can testify that there should be a great many used BP's available due to all the small/large manufacturers and machine shops that have been there since the 70's.

 

[AEAdam]

I personally would never do a series 1 Bridgeport. They are not all that stiff or great of machines. I cant really tell you who to use as the guys I know that are good only rebuild for big accounts on plant shutdowns, and don't work on general public machines.

Not fair to compare a series 1 to a series 2. The series 1 J head is a universal mill and has earned its reputation as an essential piece of shop equipment. Apollo space craft parts were built on them. Aircraft, automotive, rockets, satellites, you name it.

We sold all our huge CNC mills to a local shop 25 yrs ago, but we kept our Bridgeports. That tells you something. We don’t make aircraft parts on them anymore, but will make test fixtures, tools, repair things etc, on them.

No disrespect, but I’ve heard comments about the Bridgeports lack of rigidity many times. While I’m sure there is truth to it, I think the comment indicates a generational/cultural divide.

CNC machine operators (not describing you @Firebrick43 ) think accuracy comes from the machine. Manual mill operators believe accuracy comes from the skill of the operator. I can feel the machine struggle in tough material, or when the cutter is worn, or I’ve taken too big a bite. I use my knowledge of the machine, it’s strengths and weaknesses, feeling the resistance on the hand wheels, the sound the cutter makes to fine tune the machines operation. A good manual machinist becomes one with his machine (just like a crane operator, or backhoe or tractor driver). The young folks I work with don’t get this. They don’t even draw pictures by hand, everything they produce is computerized.

I can tell you not do use H & W out of Ft Wayne. I have seen a few of their "full rebuilds". One nice colchester lathe was trashed as they couldn't be bothered to even change the old round oil circulation belt and it failed. It was decades past replacement time, they had "rebuilt" it 6 months before I was called to look at it. The bridgeport setting next to it had not been scraped either

Okay, one more disagreement (sorry to be disagreeable):

H&W is an essential supplier of (some people would say, “obsolete”) machine parts and information. I am a happy and supportive customer.

Their rebuilding efforts are focused on providing value to customers. I suspect (I know) customers tell them what they want done, how extensive a rebuild etc. Not fair to blame them for a part not replaced without knowing what the customer asked/paid for.

Here on the east coast, we have many old mills. I bought mine in good shape (.005” backlash, flaking everywhere but getting a little thin on the saddle) for $500. Because there are so many available, after rebuilding mine, I suspect it will not fetch what I have in it when I move/die. I would think a pristine BP in a ”machine tool desert” would be worth fixing.

 

[Firebrick43]

Not fair to compare a series 1 to a series 2. The series 1 J head is a universal mill and has earned its reputation as an essential piece of shop equipment. Apollo space craft parts were built on them. Aircraft, automotive, rockets, satellites, you name it.

It’s a value proposition. The amount of labor to rebuild a series 1 vs 2 is not that much different. The cost ends up being a fraction of the series 2 value or similar sized machine. It ends up being close to the cost on a new tiwanese equivalent series 1 size machine.

And most of the space program was done with SIP hydroptic, Dixi portals and Moore jig grinders. Maybe some shops slummed some work and a DeVlig. Having worked on and operated a SIP and Moore, the make even heavy knee mills like the series 2 kludgy.

And one can do accurate work with a Bridgeport or even a file for tha matter (scraping is a single tooth file). But it’s time consuming and the machinist/tool maker had to be on their A game constantly.

Trying to hold a tight tolerance in the 8 micron/.0003” +\- range leads to significant scrap percentage on such machine as a Bridgeport.

We sold all our huge CNC mills to a local shop 25 yrs ago, but we kept our Bridgeports. That tells you something. We don’t make aircraft parts on them anymore, but will make test fixtures, tools, repair things etc, on them.

No disrespect, but I’ve heard comments about the Bridgeports lack of rigidity many times. While I’m sure there is truth to it, I think the comment indicates a generational/cultural divide.

CNC machine operators (not describing you @Firebrick43 ) think accuracy comes from the machine. Manual mill operators believe accuracy comes from the skill of the operator. I can feel the machine struggle in tough material, or when the cutter is worn, or I’ve taken too big a bite. I use my knowledge of the machine, it’s strengths and weaknesses, feeling the resistance on the hand wheels, the sound the cutter makes to fine tune the machines operation. A good manual machinist becomes one with his machine (just like a crane operator, or backhoe or tractor driver). The young folks I work with don’t get this. They don’t even draw pictures by hand, everything they produce is computerized.

Okay, one more disagreement (sorry to be disagreeable):

H&W is an essential supplier of (some people would say, “obsolete”) machine parts and information. I am a happy and supportive customer.

Their rebuilding efforts are focused on providing value to customers. I suspect (I know) customers tell them what they want done, how extensive a rebuild etc. Not fair to blame them for a part not replaced without knowing what the customer asked/paid for.

Here on the east coast, we have many old mills. I bought mine in good shape (.005” backlash, flaking everywhere but getting a little thin on the saddle) for $500. Because there are so many available, after rebuilding mine, I suspect it will not fetch what I have in it when I move/die. I would think a pristine BP in a ”machine tool desert” would be worth fixing.

The Bridgeport and colchester lathe were purchased as rebuilt and scraped from H&W, not sent to them to be done. I had the BOM for the purchase in my hands and therefore pretty well versed in how they portrayed the machines condition by their own description on them.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Then take some shims out so you can get more travel. You very rarely need the full travel of the machine. If you do need full travel, does it matter if there's a little bit of slop in the middle of the table? Dings on the table typically don't matter too much, as there is usually a vise mounted to it.

Ultimately what it comes down to is if the wear in the machine is impeding you from doing what you need it to. Are you a hobbyist, or trying to run a business? If you're a hobbyist, is the wear in the machine that bad that it's affecting your work?

I'd probably look for a better, used machine from a local tool dealer before spending 10k on a rebuild.

Absolutely! That is why I built my mill from the best of several. It allowed me to skip having to scrape a machine into tolerance. I ran a Bridgeport at work for 30 years as part of my job, so knew what slop I could live with. Scraping runs into the multi-thousands Of dollars. Richard King holds group training sessions on scraping, and they ain’t cheap either. I have camel back straight edges, scraping tools, and surface plate, but still opted to skip scraping. It a VERY detailed process, and a hell of a lot of manual work. Watch the entire multi episode process by a guy on Youtube that goes by Unknown Apprentice For a taste of it.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Here's another option for rebuilding, but I don't think you'll like the price: https://babinmachinesales.com/bridgeport-rebuilding

Just be sure that is not Babin the machine tool scammer. Do a search on Al Babin machine tools.

 

[AEAdam]

Agree with everything you said. Unlucky with the H&W rebuilds. I haven’t purchased that service from them. I can tell from their videos they are continuing to improve their services so….sorry about that. I would not disregard the whole company based on that.

Trying to hold a tight tolerance in the 8 micron/.0003” +\- range leads to significant scrap percentage on such machine as a Bridgeport.

That’s a TIGHT tolerance. I would specify something like that only on a reamed hole. Really a Bridgeport is a +/-.005” machine. If that’s your expectation, I can see why a Bridgeport will disappoint (compared to a Swiss made SIP for example). If that’s your frame of reference. Here’s mine:

In the old days we assumed +/-.010” for machined part tolerances. A bridgeport can do that all day long.

If you were designing tools (for assembly jigs etc) we would typically use 1/3 the production part tolerance. For assemblies our tolerances used to be around +/-.030”.

This is all a reasonable expectation for a decent condition bridgeport mill with a skilled machinist driving it.

BTW: I reject the “NASA” or “space shuttle” tolerances comments. When the discussion of tolerances comes up, invariably, someone says something about “working for NASA”. ETC. I HAVE worked for NASA and I’ve designed spacecraft parts and the tolerances aren’t tighter than normal.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Just be sure that is not Babin the machine tool scammer. Do a search on Al Babin machine tools.

Thanks. I was about to post the same comment. Lots of horror stories about that guy on PracticalMachinist.com