Anyone have personal experience with two TIG machines

[TxDoc]

Seeking personal experince with the Lincoln Electric Precision TIG 225 and the Miller Syncrowave 200 Runner TIG.

I know both companies are of the very best out there. Great products, great features, quality and customer support. I can get either one for essentially the same price. I have only owned Lincoln products and have had zero trouble. I have a Hypertherm 600 as I thought it was the best plasma cutter on the market. So, I am not a blinded-by-brand loyal person who would not mind having a Miller product.

Just wanted to see how the two products compare in a practical way.

 

[TxDoc]

Meant to include these comparisions, although understandably biased:

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e3372.pdf

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/comparisons/syncrowave_200.html

 

[Franz©]

It's interesting to see Red & Blue recycling the horsecrap they ran with back when they went head to head claiming their improved 110 volt MIG was better.
Those comparisons offered by both companys tell me they have now targeted the 200 amp TIG machine as the next hot product and have given up on selling a hell of a lot more small MIG machines.

Red -v- Blue in the size market you're looking at is pretty much sameo sameo. Neither of the comparison sheets tells you much about the machine.
The criteria I'd look at would be local support.
I always believed the way to buy a machine was to take the weldments I'd be doing down to the LWS and test drive the machine there.

I believe JT over on www.toolboxtalk.org is running the Blue machine and he loves it. As far as the Red offering I'm not aware of anybody driving red.

 

[MXtras]

I am a blue guy all the way. It's tough to beat their customer service and parts are easy to get. It's also what I grew up around.

Scott

 

[Charlie's68]

after running the red mig machines at the local votech, and running my millermatic at the house, i will always go with the blue....

 

[Vicegrip]

Don't have info on the 200 but I run blue too.

 

[W-Cummins]

This is turning into a cheer leading contest blue blue blue ,,, red red red... how lame.. I have BOTH brands and see very little difference on their better machines. That said, I don't think I would buy EITHER of those tig machines. Miller makes some dam fine machines and so does Lincoln. They both make some **** machines. They are now BOTH over rating their machines ( Lincoln more in this case). Used to be that most real welding machines were rated what they put out at 60% duty cycle. Not some 2 second short the windings out .00005% duty cycle.

William...

 

[Franz©]

I am loveing this current battle of the advertising geniuses at Red & Blue.

I can close my eyes and envision the advertising dipsticks in their suits "brainstorming" around a table on how to extole the virtues of their well varnished windings as oposed to the other guys wood blocks jammed into the coils that will dry out and destroy the machine. Complete aswipes who have never driven a welder and probably couldn't find the start button.

Then our fot pedal is better than their foot pedal because it's wider, and at a nicer angle. Give me a friggin break.

Both have keyed into advertising duty cycle. Their ad guys don't have a clue what duty cycle is, but they have spreadsheets indicating it's a frequent topic of discussion on welding sites. More horseshit, but if you sling enough **** at the wall some will stick.

I can hardly wait for the marketing guys at Red and Blue to discover STICK welding.
They can expound on such features as Our stinger only requires .732 pounds of thumb pressure to change a rod and theirs requires 1.4 pounds. Our selector requires less torque to change settings.

 

[PAToyota]

I agree with William about the red vs. blue debate - probably about the same as a Ford vs Chevy discussion.

For some actual usable information, I was looking at the two comparisons and to me it seems that Lincoln is using more hype than Miller:

• Note that in the rated output Lincoln touts their 100% duty cycle vs Miller's 40% - except that is comparing 90amp (Lincoln) to 150amp (Miller)... Miller at least compares the two machines at the same amperage ratings.
• Lincoln touts 230amps at the top end vs. 200amps for the Miller - but considering that their input current requirement is lower I'm guessing that you really don't get enough of a duty cycle at the top end to make it usable.
• Lincoln compares 20amp auxiliary power to Miller's 15amps. Sorry, I've never plugged another tool into my welder so I doubt that is much of an issue.

Looking through them, I'd say that they are pretty similar. As such, both of them are lighter duty than I'd use. I have a Syncrowave 250DX only because I found a good deal on a used one before I found a good deal on a used Lincoln of similar specs. With the 250DX (or 275 for similar Lincoln model) I'm really stepping up in duty cycle both in power output and in adding a water cooler.

All sort of depends on how much you want to do with it, which features appeal to you (do you want Miller's digital displays?) and what sort of deal you can get on each one.

 

[1320stang]

I'm wanting to get a TIG and learn how to one of these days. Since I don't have any experience, I can't offer a first hand opinion, however I can offer a second hand opinion of my buddy that owns a chassis shop where he welds drag cars using mild steel, chrome-moly, aluminum and SS. He told me that he felt Miller had a better MIG while Lincoln had a better TIG. This was after using both brands machines. He also told me that the High-Freq on the TIG's wear out over time when you weld a lot of aluminum. He said most of the aircraft shops around here replace their machines every year due to this and you can pick up one used for pretty cheap, they'll still weld steel fine though. This has been my plan, pick up one of these used to learn, then get a new machine later on. He said they're both great machines, he just prefered the blue MIG and the red TIG.

 

[MXtras]

You have to adjust the air gap on a HF TIG every once in a while. I wonder if they know this?

...if they don't I wouldn't let them see this thread until you get your welder from them.....

From the Lincoln site:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/tigseriesreliable.asp

"High Frequency Arc Starter Compartment
From talking with customers and maintenance personnel during the development of this unit, it was noted that the number one maintenance item on a TIG machine is cleaning and adjusting the spark gap. So, to make this task easier, Lincoln developed a compartment to house the high frequency arc starter. Located at the side, it is easy to access with a removable panel that eliminates the need to remove the entire case side. Also, this isolated and shielded compartment minimizes the high-frequency arc emissions from getting out of the spark gap area and into other areas of the machine. Furthermore, the separate compartment helps protect the High Frequency spark gap from dust and dirt. Miller's TIG units have an access panel but do not have separate compartments for the arc starter."

And you will note they have to attempt to degrade another product to promote theirs. I really can't stand that tactic. Stand on your own merits.

Scott

 

[Defender Chassis]

I dont have experience with both but I personally use the Lincoln 185 wich is the predecessor to the 225. In fact the Lincoln machine in question started out as a 175 but was upgraded to allow the higher settings as the Miller machines did the same. I am not biased on machine color and have a Miller plasma with wich i am satisfied also. I did have the pleaseure of beating on one of these Lincoln machines at the Lincoln factory during a week long motorsports training class I took a few years back. Other than tripping out the machine by welding 3/16" aluminum non-stop for an hour, I have nothing negative to say. I think you will be happy with either machine. Like someone stated earlier, you should probably go with whichever will give the best local support.

 

[Franz©]

Note that in the rated output Lincoln touts their 100% duty cycle vs Miller's 40% - except that is comparing 90amp (Lincoln) to 150amp (Miller)... Miller at least compares the two machines at the same amperage ratings.
Lincoln touts 230amps at the top end vs. 200amps for the Miller - but considering that their input current requirement is lower I'm guessing that you really don't get enough of a duty cycle at the top end to make it usable.

>>The dirty little secret on both machines is that the duty cycle is totally a function of cooling capacity, and the ratings are tweaked in an air conditioned lab. For the average home welding situation chances of bumping into the overtemp shutdown on either machine are pretty damn minimal.
Both manufacturers are employing the same advertising format Eaton Compressor uses, lots of words saying nothing.



Lincoln compares 20amp auxiliary power to Miller's 15amps. Sorry, I've never plugged another tool into my welder so I doubt that is much of an issue.
>>The plug is there for the water cooler.

The difference in rating is Linclon's little reminder to Miller of a famous machine Miller built 25+ years ago, a square wave TIG that was magnificent for it's time. Miller built in a 15 amp plug for convenience operating the water cooler. Miller forgot to overcurrent protect the plug, and one hell of a lot of squarewave TIG machines went to the scrapper because the main transformer cooked if you sucked 15.5 amps from the plug.

Adding an outlet to a 240 volt machine isn't dificult, tap one side to neutral and fuse it. Of course any stupid statement a sales copy writer can make might sell another machine, so the statement gets printed.

Analog -v- digital output meters, who gives a damn. You can't see either with the hood down, so they are USELESS. Metering only comes into relevence in production welding where some **** in a lab coat sits in his mezanine cube with binoculars reading outputs and entering data into his ISO compliance sheet. For anybody else metering is a complete waste of money on a welder.

 

[TxDoc]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, suggestions, experiences and help. The big dealer here has been around for many, many years. They sell and service both. I just need to sit down and try both and see what will work best for me. I won't be fabricating any Cars of Tomorrow for Dale, Jr.....at least he hopes not!

Thanks again for the info!

 

[toolfreak]

I have a synchrowave 180 and I am very happy with the way it welds. I don't use it much since it's just so much quicker and easier to get out the mig. I haven't tried any of the lincoln tigs but I am sure they are a good machine also. I don't think you can go wrong whether it's red or blue.

 

[scotte]

when i went tig shopping i went to a few local machine shops and they all told me the same thing "we bought one brand new and it quit working and the cost of the circuit boards outweighed the cost of the machine"

all the local shops now have 10-30 year old transformer single phase tigs

yes they are big and heavy

yes they take a lot of power to run


but

its cheaper (i picked up my 1979 lincoln idealarc 300/300 tig w/ miller coolmate 3 and new torch and reg for $1100)

i can stomp on the pedel and melt 2 3/4 inch aluminum plates together

anyway i would look at the weldtalk forum over at hobartwelders.com for more info